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by **Sith 77** » May 4th 2005 4:58 pm

Changing perceptions of The Saga now its complete.

I hope this isn't the wrong place to put this. If there is a better place for this, please tell me and I will delete.

I was watching the "Musical Journey" dvd last night and it really made me think exactly how much my perceptions of the whole saga have changed now that all is said and done. It was slowly changing due to TPM and AOTC, but ROTS has really thrown my notions for a loop. Of course I grew up on the OT and after all these years, its gotten a little to comfortable feeling to me (I know it inside and out, etc.).

While watching the "Musical Journey," everytime a scene from the OT came on, especially a scene with Vader or the Emperor, it was like looking through the world with new eyes. I could only feel pity and remorse for Vader, and think exactly how cunning and evil Palpatine is.

When I see Yoda and Obi-Wan, I feel an infinite sadness for their plights, resigned to their last days on backwater planets, just waiting for the right moment to occur.

When I see Luke and Leia, I think how much they really do look pretty similar, and Leia looks and acts a lot like Padme (even though in reality Portman is basing her performance on Fisher's).

The stormtroopers though are my biggest problem. When the are called "clone troopers," they are bad-assed, fearless fighters. They dive right into a hail of laser fire and don't think about their own lives. In ANH, when Han and company run into that group in the hallway, Han blasts one and the rest turn and run. I could only think, "what the fuck? The clones I know from the earlier episodes wouldn't do that shit. They'd blow the fuck out of them right there."

I think that's the only loose tie I see in the transition from ROTS to the OT. The stormtroopers are a little to shitty at everything to have once been these hard-assed fighting units. Overall, I'm thoroughly impressed with the way Lucas has tied this all together, and I'm extremely greatful he's made me see the OT in a different light and reappreciate it all over again.

How does everyone else feel?

EDIT: Thanks to the powers that be for moving this.

by **The_Somnambulist** » May 4th 2005 5:03 pm

The stormtroopers are a little to shitty at everything to have once been these hard-assed fighting units.

The ST of the OT get less benefits.

Actually, you raise a very good continuity question. The canon doesn't seem to answer this, but I'm sure the EU already has it covered.

by **Zéyann** » May 4th 2005 6:42 pm

They just pussied out, there hasn't been any big resistance for a long time. But frankly, I wouldn't really give a shit. As a matter of fact it didn't even come to mind for me until someone started nagging about it.

by **Bandersnatch** » May 4th 2005 7:20 pm

Han simply fakes them out in the Death Star corridor. Then the tables are turned when he is facing a whole lot more of them. That doesn't make them less badass. They could have just decided to pull back to that position, where a shitload more of them were waiting.

Also, that scene is meant to be funny. Not a comment on the badassness, or lack thereof, of the stormtroopers.

AND... the stormtroopers ARE badass when they need to be. They fuckin' wipe out the crew of the rebel ship at the beginning of ANH.

by **Bandersnatch** » May 4th 2005 7:35 pm

That's very true, Traiken. The prequels also made me appreciate where the Emperor is coming from in ROTJ. I used to hate that stupid cackly old goul, but now I get him and he's one of my favorite characters in the whole story.

by **Sith 77** » May 5th 2005 9:29 am

Traiken, Bandersnatch, you both bring up good points.

I don't really sit here and over analyze Star Wars like people do with Star Trek. Sometimes a friend and I sit around when we're really bored and talk about stuff like this over a few drinks, but I'm not that kind of sheep.

It's sometimes just interesting to fill in the story where there are holes.

by **VT-16** » May 5th 2005 12:11 pm

The stormtroopers though are my biggest problem.

Sigh. I´ve said this before and I´ll say it again, the stormtroopers are just as competent as the clonetroopers (and just as unlucky with the heros, if ROTS is to be believed). They kick ass inside the Tantive IV and Echo Base, they chase away the Ewoks at Endor until Chewie highjacks an AT-ST. The two other instances we see them fight, they fake it, due to letting the heroes believe they´re getting away. First time on the Death Star, so they can lead them to the secret base, then on Cloud City, so they can fly within range of the Executor.

Stormtroopers do not suck, this is simply a misinterpretation kept alive by fandom for 30 years.

by **Sith 77** » May 5th 2005 4:35 pm

You guys are absolutely right. I just had a case of "if you hear it enough times you start to believe it."

When you think about it, they are very effective. I started going through the films in my head and you are 100% right, I was just not thinking :oops:

Plus, the really stupid thing is that when people brought this up, I used to maintain this is one of the oldest tricks of fiction that the "heroes" are untouchable by the bad guys. They can usually fuck up anyone else, but when the main protagonists come along, they suddenly forget who they were. It's a plot device that's been around since Greek drama.

Once again, :oops:

by **VT-16** » May 6th 2005 3:46 am

Don´t worry, I got into a similar argument on this site and felt that people were just joking it up and ignoring my reply, so I threw a hissy fit and people got angry. It´s just, some things people think about SW just aren´t true and they mostly get used for jokes. And that just annoys me sometimes, because I hear them one time too many.

Especially things like "The Empire got defeated by teddy bears!!!!111!" and "Stormtroopers can´t shoot!!!!", neither of which are true, but both are ingrained in popular culture by now. :\

by **Phod** » May 7th 2005 3:04 am

There are some fun little things in the OT that the prequels kinda make you see differently.

For instance, when Owen is buying the droids, watch the look R2-d2 gives him when he's talking to c-3p0.. knowing what happens in Episode 3, it's kinda amusing.

by **Bandersnatch** » May 7th 2005 7:47 am

Excellent point there about 3PO. Owen singles him out and says "YOU... I suppose you're programmed for eticate and protocol..."
Then brushes him off with "I have no need..." etc...

And, the fact that there are protocol droids all over the place immediately throws out any question of "why didn't so-and-so recognize him!"

:monocle:

by **Zéyann** » May 7th 2005 5:26 pm

when I first saw Episode I, I actually thought that was C-3PO in the droid control ship :roll:

by **Bandersnatch** » May 7th 2005 5:33 pm

And Anakin gave 3PO a sex change, just for mom... :bunnys:

by **danteky** » May 17th 2005 8:36 pm

I think about the look Obi Wan gives R2 when he finds Luke and the little wry smile he gives before he becomes one with the Force. Those two images made a shit load more sense after watching the prequals.

by **danteky** » May 17th 2005 9:41 pm

Traiken wrote:What, you didn't get the wry smile just after watching the end of A New Hope?

Not till after ESB to be honest but it means a little more to me now. I can't explain why but it feels like that there much more behind that smile.

by **flaxer** » May 23rd 2005 11:25 pm

Sith 77 wrote:Sometimes a friend and I sit around when we're really bored and talk about stuff like this over a few drinks...

It's sometimes just interesting to fill in the story where there are holes.

Ya, or maybe a 5th or two! SW + Alcohol = hours of entertainment.

Bandersnatch wrote:Excellent point there about 3PO. Owen singles him out and says "YOU... I suppose you're programmed for eticate and protocol..."
Then brushes him off with "I have no need..." etc...

And, the fact that there are protocol droids all over the place immediately throws out any question of "why didn't so-and-so recognize him!"

And I don't think Owen even really ever hears 3P0's name. If I remember correctly 3P0 doesn't intruduce his name to Luke until they are alone without Owen.

by **yarq** » June 5th 2025 5:07 am

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