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Did the Sith conceive Anakin

Alright, I have a line of thought for opinion/debate. I've seen the movie twice now and I have gotten the same impression both times.

I think that Palpatine implies that either he (or maybe Darth Plageus) created Anakin. We all know that Anakin "had no father". The Jedi thought that he may have been conceived by the midichlorians themselves.

During the opera house scene Palpatine reveals to us (Anakin is too dense to get it that Palpatine is a Sith) that Plageus was his Master and that he had learned a way to "manipulate the midichlorians to create life" and that Plageus had tought him everything he knew about the force before Palpatine killed him.

Also it seems that maybe Sidious somehow has a means of implanting in Anakin the terrible dreams he has. How else could Sidious have turned Anakin unless Anakin thought that Padme was in danger of dying? And how did Sidious know of Anakin's fears unless he had something to do with them?

Well I certainly think it's possible but it is also possible to me that Palpatine was lying or that's not what he was implying. Obviously lies are part and parcel of being a Sith although, from evidence in the films, no more than they are being a Jedi. The main thing that keeps me from thinking Palpatine or Plagueis created him is that Qui-Gon said he had encountered a vergance in the Force - almost in a way that said he was expecting to find one. Like part of the Prophesy was that the Force (or poxy midichlorians) would create a person or bring a person into being. This prophesy would not, from what we know, seem to suggest that the Sith created this person.

As Yoda said thoough, it is possible that the prophesy was misread. Maybe even more than that, it's possible that the prophesy was simply a Sith lie from days gone by. Yeah, you can argue that it was fulfilled - but at what cost?

Had there been more of a reaction from Anakin then I would be more inclined to believe he was created by Sith. As it is, I think he was created by the Force. Or his mom was a drunkard and a liar.

Here is a quote from the Lucas interview in the latest issue of Rolling Stone:



That not only clarifies nothing, but in fact confuses the issue further, insofar as Lucas seems to be saying that the midichlorians may have acted on their own without encouragement by the Force.

I would not recommend buying this issue of Rolling Stone, because despite (or maybe even because of) using heavy coverage of ROTS as a cover feature to attract sales, this issue also happens to include the most vitriolic review of a Star Wars film since John Simon's review of the original film in New York magazine. Steal it, or borrow it from a library and use it to wipe your ass with.

Well unlike the conception of Anakin, there isn't one hint in any movie that Sidious had his mother kidnapped.

After having seen the movie twice, I think Sidious was just telling all that to get Anakin join him. Most of it was most likely just exaggerated, some of it could be true. I personally don't think Plagueis concieved Anakin, or at least I don't WANT to believe he did so.

Also, nowhere in the movie is mentioned Plagueis is Sidious' mentor. It could have just been an ancient Sith story passed down by the lords.

I guess maybe everything that comes out of Palpatine's mouth is a lie intended to further his goal of domination but it seemed obvious to me that he is describing his own story when he discusses Plageius (I cant remember how to spell that) and his apprentice. Maybe I read too much into it but I got the same impression both times I saw the movie.

Anakin either too dense to figure it out that Palpatine is a Sith (Hey, Chancellor, how the hell do YOU know so much about a dark lord of the Sith?) or maybe he's too intrigued in the dark side to care at that point.

I can't read Lucas's mind but you wonder why Palpatine discusses the power that Plageius has to "manipulate the midichlorians to create life" if he didn't intend on you thinking that maybe Plageius conceived Anakin. Palpatine later in the movie (after Anakin crosses the Rubicon and helps him kill Windu, of course) admits that he does not have this power that Anakin seeks (and that he had led Anakin to beleive he had) but maybe if Anakin went ahead and did a lot of evil stuff for him he'd become powerful enough in the dark side that they could discover it together.

The only problem is that Anakin doesn't know Palpatine is Sidious at this point. He doesn't know that when Palpatine is talking about Plagueis creating life, he knows alot more about this legend then he's letting on.

And while you're right, he never admits that Plagueis was his master in the film, it's obviously HEAVILY implied (whether it be that look of distant satisfaction as he tells the tale of how the apprentice killed Plagueis, or when he refers to "his mentor" later in the film).

As Lucas said, it's really up to interpretation. But the thing is, Palpatine wouldn't say that as a lie at that point, because Anakin has no idea he's really Sidious then.

The flanelled one is reading this now and laughing his ass off at our nitpicking

I've not been keen on the idea of a 'virgin' birth for Anakin, since it was mentioned in Phantom Menace. I can see where Lucas was trying to infuse some measure of messianic mythology into the lore of the prequel trilogy. The notion that Anakin was born out of the force and would eventually bring balance to the force, as the 'Chosen One', falls into all of this. Yet, the notion of Anakin being a product of the force, the midiclorians or very possibly the Sith, through manipulation of the force and the midiclorians...it just creates more problems than ought exist.

We the audience don't come away with any sense of Anakins true origins and quite frankly, I'm not so sure that George Lucas knows definitively where he meant to take this line of reasoning. One would think that Lucas had an intention in introducing midiclorians and Anakin's virginal birth in TPM. The fact that both concepts are reprised in ROTS, without any definitive resolution strikes me as a cheat to fans and audiences in general.

My two cents on this? Methinks Palpatine was manipulating his awareness of Anakin's virginal birth to suit his ends. I could see where Anakin might consider the possibility that he was a creation of the Sith, upon hearing the 'Tale of Darth Plagueis' and perhaps Palpatine was intent upon convincing Anakin of this and thus making him more pliable for a complete turn to the darkside. Palpatine confessing a need to explore the life sustaining manipulation of the midiclorians with Anakin, after the death of Mace, is an apparant bait meant to keep Anakin loyally in check. For all we know, 'The Tale of Darth Plagueis' could've been a lie all together. Yet, whether truth or falsehood, it keeps Anakin from allowing Mace to kill Palpatine. Whether 'The Tale of Darth Plagueis' is fact or fiction, Anakin is convinced of it's veracity and in the end, that's all that matters.

I think it's pretty obvious that either Plagueis or Sidious created Anakin. It would be a completely useless line to say that the old sith lord could manipulate the midichlorians if it wasn't so. The last time the midiclorians were even mentioned was episode I... He had an interest in the boy from the start. "We'll watch your career with great interest."

Now, just because Plagueis or Sidious could create life does not mean that Annakin would be born evil. The only guarantee is that he would be born. The only hope was for him to have a lousy childhood as a slave, or is that a lousy slavehood as a child? Anyway... The only hope would be for a Sith to take the boy under his wing as soon as possible and corrupt him.

Máire

So you think Vader and Anakin are different people as well? After all, Obi Wan said Vader betrayed and murdered Anakin.

I personally think Palpatine was merely throwing crap out to see what sticks. Whatever stuck, he'd run with.

yeah, sids wasn't kidding when he said the dark side is the pathway to many things some consider unnatural.

if i hado nly bought a bigger buttplug

I don't buy it. If Palpatine went to all the trouble of "creating" Anakin himself, why not simply raise him from birth to be devoted to the Dark Side? If Palpatine wanted the Jedi to find him, why give him a "foster" home outside of the Republic's borders?

Palpatine was just frontin.

I'm trying to think of a single instance where Palpatine actually spoke the truth... Funny how everything he's said is a lie, but people want to believe he (or Plageus) created Anakin. Hmm....

Here's a quote from a recent interview with Rick McCallum regarding who created nnakin. http://www.millenniumfalcon.com/phpbb/v ... php?t=5116

"Q so, who do you think created Anakin? Plagueis or Palpatine?

R For me, personally, Palpatine. But George only knows for sure."

So far, you have a blatant hint in Episode III, and here you have a quote from the producer. In this quote, although not definitive, it doesn't deny the Sith conception theory. Until Lucas says otherwise, I'm sticking to my original belief that Annakin was in fact conceived by the Sith.

I think this is the key... As Mace is hovering over Palpatine, Palps cries, "I *HAVE* the power to save the one you love!" Then, immediately after Mace goes flying out the window, Palps says, "We will learn this secret together." That scene just screams "LIAR!" to me (which of course, Palpatine is the master of.)

And then later in the movie, Obi-Wan tells Padme that Anakin "was betrayed by a lie!"

So, it's pretty clear to me that Palps was lying and that neither he or Plagius created Anakin which means that the virgin birth thing stands.

I don't get it. What did the Sith convince Anakin to?

BECOME DARF VADAR

to dance naked with with Mace Windu in the Opera. This is one of the deleted scenes, we'll get to see it on the dvd.

Eeeeaw!

Regarding QuiGon, the convergence of the Force, Anakin being the Chosen One and who created him . . .

Since reading the book I came convinced that Plageous (or however it is spelled) created Anakin. Palpatine knew that this "perfect Force being" would be born and was threatened by it. His Master would cast him aside and take more interest in this perfect Force being. So, Palpatine killed Plageous so that he could control Anakin.

However, with that in mind, not only do the Jedi have a "Chosen One", the Sith have one also in the Sith'ari:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sith