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Post Posted: April 25th 2006 7:36 pm
 

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Raveers wrote:
thecolorsblend wrote:
PerfectCr wrote:
thecolorsblend wrote:
:whateva:

Do you have a point?

Besides meaning that your post was cliche masturbatory sheep crap?

No, not really.


I definitely agree with this statement. To think that fans believe they know how the Prequels could have been made better than their original creator is pure ludicrous. A lot of these 'ideas' I've read are very stupid and deserves a "WTF".

If you guys are really this disatisfied with the way how the Prequels turned out...I just have three words to say "quit watching them".

Yes there is such a thing as analizing the films but when you guys start tossing up wet sheep fantasy dreams about how the Prequels could have been better in "your own vision" then it becomes over analizing and pretty fucking stupid.

As I have said, I have no problem with the way how the Prequels and the Original Trilogy turned out and I enjoy watching them. They are just films after all, not a part of our daily lives. They're ment for us to sit down and enjoy them.

Most of todays new generation of kids don't really give a fuck about your 'visions' on how the Prequels or the rest of the Trilogy could have been. They're happy with the way how things turned out and think the whole Saga is pretty fucking sweet. Only to those who clinge to the past think things should have been differently.

Edited for typos.


Exactly.

I hate Star Wars fans who think they can make the trilogies any better.

If you really want to create and feel your stories are the best, WRITE ORIGINAL STORIES and get those published. Fans who wish the films could have come out their way is exactly the reason why Lucas directs the way he does.


Post Posted: April 25th 2006 10:00 pm
 

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Longtime_Sunshine wrote:
Raveers wrote:
thecolorsblend wrote:
PerfectCr wrote:
thecolorsblend wrote:
:whateva:

Do you have a point?

Besides meaning that your post was cliche masturbatory sheep crap?

No, not really.


I definitely agree with this statement. To think that fans believe they know how the Prequels could have been made better than their original creator is pure ludicrous. A lot of these 'ideas' I've read are very stupid and deserves a "WTF".

If you guys are really this disatisfied with the way how the Prequels turned out...I just have three words to say "quit watching them".

Yes there is such a thing as analizing the films but when you guys start tossing up wet sheep fantasy dreams about how the Prequels could have been better in "your own vision" then it becomes over analizing and pretty fucking stupid.

As I have said, I have no problem with the way how the Prequels and the Original Trilogy turned out and I enjoy watching them. They are just films after all, not a part of our daily lives. They're ment for us to sit down and enjoy them.

Most of todays new generation of kids don't really give a fuck about your 'visions' on how the Prequels or the rest of the Trilogy could have been. They're happy with the way how things turned out and think the whole Saga is pretty fucking sweet. Only to those who clinge to the past think things should have been differently.

Edited for typos.


Exactly.

I hate Star Wars fans who think they can make the trilogies any better.

If you really want to create and feel your stories are the best, WRITE ORIGINAL STORIES and get those published. Fans who wish the films could have come out their way is exactly the reason why Lucas directs the way he does.


You speak words of truth, kemo sabe.

The other issue is that Clone Wars sucked.


Post Posted: April 25th 2006 10:07 pm
 
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I didn't mind the Clone Wars but it would have been awesome if they had drawn the characters similar to how the characters for "Final Flight Of The Osiris" for "The Animatrix" was drawn.


Post Posted: April 27th 2006 5:29 am
 
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Hmm...3 days and no response? Well that's a surprise. What's the matter fellas, cat got your tongues? Or do you know we're right and can't come up with anything to say?

Or you'll probably say I don't check the board every day...


Post Posted: April 27th 2006 10:09 am
 

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Raveers wrote:
I didn't mind the Clone Wars but it would have been awesome if they had drawn the characters similar to how the characters for "Final Flight Of The Osiris" for "The Animatrix" was drawn.

CW is exactly what the sheep would've made the prequels in to. Nothing but mindless action, thin plot, endless OT references, very little imagination, etc.


Post Posted: April 28th 2006 8:04 pm
 
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thecolorsblend wrote:
CW is exactly what the sheep would've made the prequels in to. Nothing but mindless action, thin plot, endless OT references, very little imagination, etc.


I guess you're right about that. I waited a couple of days on purpose to post a reply because I was giving the other dudes a chance to reply to what we had said. Nothing yet. Quite funny if you ask me.


Post Posted: April 29th 2006 10:34 am
 
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Raveers wrote:
thecolorsblend wrote:
PerfectCr wrote:
thecolorsblend wrote:
:whateva:

Do you have a point?

Besides meaning that your post was cliche masturbatory sheep crap?

No, not really.


I definitely agree with this statement. To think that fans believe they know how the Prequels could have been made better than their original creator is pure ludicrous. A lot of these 'ideas' I've read are very stupid and deserves a "WTF".

It's called an opinion. Get used to them, you'll be hearing them a lot during your life. So you disagree with me. I'm not losing any sleep.


Post Posted: April 29th 2006 11:12 am
 
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Typical response. :roll:


Post Posted: April 29th 2006 11:22 am
 
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Raveers wrote:
Typical response. :roll:

Ditto bub.


Post Posted: April 29th 2006 5:11 pm
 

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Raveers wrote:
I waited a couple of days on purpose to post a reply because I was giving the other dudes a chance to reply to what we had said.


Well, that's awfully magnanimous of you. Hey, quick question: when the fuck were you appointed judge of people's posting habits here? Has it occurred to you the reason most people have left this thread behind is because it degenerated into the typical childish argumentative shit? Here's an example:

Raveers wrote:
To think that fans believe they know how the Prequels could have been made better than their original creator is pure ludicrous. A lot of these 'ideas' I've read are very stupid and deserves a "WTF".


then, less than 12 hours later, Raveers wrote:
I didn't mind the Clone Wars but it would have been awesome if they had drawn the characters similar to how the characters for "Final Flight Of The Osiris" for "The Animatrix" was drawn.


Ever stop to think you're part of the problem?

You clowns who think that having Lucas's cock further down your throat than the other guy's somehow makes you the "winner" are slowly turning every discussion of Star Wars on this board into fucking TFN Jr. Instead of counting the seconds between posts made by your arch enemy, try getting a fucking life.

"I waited a couple of days on purpose." Jesus. Thanks ever so fucking much for restraining yourself. It must have been living hell, having to bottle up your next brilliant contribution until the timing was absolutely perfect. By the way, ludicrous is an adjective.


Post Posted: April 29th 2006 6:51 pm
 
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This is a discussion thread. Both POSITIVE and NEGATIVE discussion is welcome. The use of 'it's GL prequels' and other such crap where posters are targeted for their opinions is not welcome. You have been warned. - Ternian


Post Posted: April 29th 2006 7:56 pm
 

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OK, Tern, but the thread is also about what TPM did right, not what it should have been.


Post Posted: April 29th 2006 8:05 pm
 
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No, this thread's about the film's strengths and weaknesses.

Strength: Williams' use of choral music is really spectacular, like the swim to Otoh Gunga, Duel Of The Fates and Qui-Gon's funeral. It's some of my favorite music in the saga.

Weakness: Jar Jar Binks is obviously essential to the plot. In retrospect, I feel his function in the film should have been minimized. His reduced role in AOTC and especially ROTS only served to better those films. Jar Jar's unnecessary and unfunny jackass shenanigans only hinder TPM. Since Lucas has already added a CG Yoda to the film (and I can only assume is making other alterations), it'd be great if he could, say, remove the scene where an Eopie farts on Jar Jar and possibly the many other scenes of unnecessary and unfunny Jar Jar bullshit.

Now you try. Or do you have nothing to add to the topic besides "It's GL's films" and random "attacks" at people who were disappointed with the films, or like discussing what could have been?


Post Posted: April 29th 2006 8:44 pm
 
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ETAndElliot4Ever wrote:
No, this thread's about the film's strengths and weaknesses.

Strength: Williams' use of choral music is really spectacular, like the swim to Otoh Gunga, Duel Of The Fates and Qui-Gon's funeral. It's some of my favorite music in the saga.

Weakness: Jar Jar Binks is obviously essential to the plot. In retrospect, I feel his function in the film should have been minimized. His reduced role in AOTC and especially ROTS only served to better those films. Jar Jar's unnecessary and unfunny jackass shenanigans only hinder TPM. Since Lucas has already added a CG Yoda to the film (and I can only assume is making other alterations), it'd be great if he could, say, remove the scene where an Eopie farts on Jar Jar and possibly the many other scenes of unnecessary and unfunny Jar Jar bullshit.

Now you try. Or do you have nothing to add to the topic besides "It's GL's films" and random "attacks" at people who were disappointed with the films, or like discussing what could have been?

I agree, especially in light of Jar Jar almost non-existant roles in ATOC and ROTS, his prominent role in TPM makes even less sense now.


Post Posted: April 29th 2006 10:18 pm
 
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One thing that always stands out to me when I watch TPM is the fight between Obi-Wan and Darth Maul. From the point that Ewans face grimaces at his realization that Qui-Gon's about to get speared, to the severed sith's fall into oblivion, I'm completely engrossed. They actually seem to be trying to hit each other, and there are few "special" effects, making it perhaps my favorite (albeit kind of short) individual fight of the saga. A lot of folks dis' this flick, but I still just love watching it.


Post Posted: April 29th 2006 10:48 pm
 
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Ternian wrote:
This is a discussion thread. Both POSITIVE and NEGATIVE discussion is welcome. The use of 'it's GL prequels' and other such crap where posters are targeted for their opinions is not welcome. You have been warned. - Ternian


Sorry....

TroyOblix wrote:
One thing that always stands out to me when I watch TPM is the fight between Obi-Wan and Darth Maul. From the point that Ewans face grimaces at his realization that Qui-Gon's about to get speared, to the severed sith's fall into oblivion, I'm completely engrossed.


I am the same way. Actually I think the Maul, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan saber fight has been the best one from the Prequels. The second best saber fight would be the Vader (Anakin) and Obi-Wan fight on Mustafar.

Edit:

AOTC: The duel between Anakin, Obi-Wan and Dooku in AOTC was sub-par and I thought it was too short. I'm not sure if they actually made that duel longer or not. I know for the Yoda and Dooku duel it wasn't too bad but the CG was a bit horrible. They did make that sequence a bit longer since there's production pictures of Dooku holding his saber and the spare saber that Anakin had after cutting Anakin's arm off.

ROTS: The rematch between Anakin, Obi-Wan and Dooku was pretty good this time around. Of course we know Obi-Wan got owned again by Dooku however the fight bewteen Anakin and Dooku was a lot better. The CG head replacement for Dooku was a bit more better this time around.

The Grievous and Obi-Wan duel, I thought it was sweet but again too short in my opinion. I mean I know Obi-Wan is an experienced saber fighter but he was able to get rid of the sabers Grievous was using in no time flat. I know this is a bit of a horrible reference but in the cartoon Clone Wars not even 6 Jedi could really stand up to Grievous, they got their asses kicked and all but 2 died.

The Mace, posse and Palpatine duel. Hmm I could see Palpatine taking out 3 Jedi masters that quickly. He did catch them by surprise but after watching the film so many times when you see them just standing there for a moment and they had a clear shot at them it makes you go hmmm... The actual duel between Mace and Palpatine though would have been intresting to see from it's original uncut version.

The Yoda and Sidious duel. Grant most of this was CG but it was still a fun duel to watch and it was nice to see Yoda kicking some ass even though in the end Yoda lost.


Post Posted: April 29th 2006 11:24 pm
 

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One great thing about TPM is how underplayed Anakin's darker moments were. When he glared at Mace after it was announced Qui-Gon would not be allowed to train Anakin, I thought that was entirely appropriate. Anakin risked his ass to win Qui-Gon the parts he needed for the Queen's ship so that Qui-Gon could report to the Council, y'know, *alive* and stuff, and this was how they thanked him??? In fact, that scene was sort of reprised in ROTS when Anakin mouthed off to Mace for not promoting him to a Jedi Master.

More broadly, I loved how Lucas portrayed Anakin as a sweet, innocent kid in TPM. If he'd been born a Hitler youth, one wonders why the audience would sympathize with him or, for that matter, why the Jedi would want to bring him into the fold.

Another great thing was sheer visual spectacle. Seeing droids riding STAPs through Theed, Federation ships and shuttles landing in the Plaza, the epic scope and beauty of Corsucant, the regality and formality of the Galactic Senate, this was great stuff, epic Star Wars, imho. Very much in the tradition of awe and wonder at these fantastic images brought to life in true Lucas fashion. Excellent.

Like TroyOblix wrote, it really looked like the actors were trying to hit each other with their lightsabers (most of the time) instead of aiming their strikes at the opponent's sword. It's a small difference that added up to a lot. If any of them hadn't blocked exactly the place they did, they would've gotten the crap whacked out of them.

My thought has always been if we didn't have an entire movie that showed us how the Senate, the Republic and the galaxy at large worked, the Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire wouldn't have any emotional context. I believe Lucas made exactly the right call in this respect.


Post Posted: April 30th 2006 6:46 pm
 
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[align=center]Image[/align]

What Episode I did right and wrong was the whole "Second Coming" buildup.

The teaser poster, teaser trailer, and tone poems gave the impression of a grown-up, darker Star Wars. The teaser poster of a young brooding Anakin with his Vader shadow, forshadowing his future, was fucking awesome. The teaser trailer's opening moments, with shadowy figures emerging from the mist and The Force theme playing can never be topped.

What was wrong was the teaser posters, teaser trailers, and tone poems suggested a different movie all together. From the teaster materials one was fully expecting to see a Anakin Skywalker as a Jackie Torrance type character, only instead of "The Shining" he had the "The Force", and fan favorites Darth Maul and Mace Windu having more prominent roles. Instead we got a movie filled with BattleDroids and Gungans all over the fucking place.

[align=center]Image
(clicky for teaser trailer)[/align]


Post Posted: April 30th 2006 6:52 pm
 
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darthpsychotic wrote:
What Episode I did right and wrong was the whole "Second Coming" buildup.

The teaser poster, teaser trailer, and tone poems gave the impression of a grown-up, darker Star Wars. The teaser poster of a young brooding Anakin with his Vader shadow, forshadowing his future, was fucking awesome. The teaser trailer's opening moments, with shadowy figures emerging from the mist and The Force theme playing can never be topped.

What was wrong was the teaser posters, teaser trailers, and tone poems suggested a different movie all together. From the teaster materials one was fully expecting to see a Anakin Skywalker as a Jackie Torrance type character, only instead of "The Shining" he had the "The Force", and fan favorites Darth Maul and Mace Windu having more prominent roles. Instead we got a movie filled with BattleDroids and Gungans all over the fucking place.

Yes, and curious how they left Jar Jar and "yippie" competely OUT of the trailer. They knew...

I mean Jar Jar plays a central role in the film, and he has all of 1 millisecond in the tralier. Wonder why. heh

I can forgive everything else in the film, please I hope they release a special edition that pairs down Jar Jar's role. I can dream, can't I?


Post Posted: May 2nd 2006 12:55 am
 
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I love that most of the lightsaber duel was done for real, and not with digital doubles. The final part where Maul and Obi-Wan are kicking each other through the air and Maul does that wicked spin is fucking fantastic.


Post Posted: May 3rd 2006 4:18 am
 
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"Wipe them out - all of them," has to be one of the most underused lines in the entire Star Wars saga. Watching the trailer, I thought that line referred to the eradication of the pesky Jedi.


Post Posted: May 3rd 2006 3:28 pm
 
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darthpsychotic wrote:

What Episode I did right and wrong was the whole "Second Coming" buildup.

The teaser poster, teaser trailer, and tone poems gave the impression of a grown-up, darker Star Wars. The teaser poster of a young brooding Anakin with his Vader shadow, forshadowing his future, was fucking awesome. The teaser trailer's opening moments, with shadowy figures emerging from the mist and The Force theme playing can never be topped.

What was wrong was the teaser posters, teaser trailers, and tone poems suggested a different movie all together. From the teaster materials one was fully expecting to see a Anakin Skywalker as a Jackie Torrance type character, only instead of "The Shining" he had the "The Force", and fan favorites Darth Maul and Mace Windu having more prominent roles. Instead we got a movie filled with BattleDroids and Gungans all over the fucking place.



100% truth.


Post Posted: May 7th 2006 6:13 pm
 
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Ternian wrote:
"Wipe them out - all of them," has to be one of the most underused lines in the entire Star Wars saga. Watching the trailer, I thought that line referred to the eradication of the pesky Jedi.


I do love TPM, but that trailer was so damn good and in a lot of ways, misleading. I agree with DarthPyschotic's post. The same went for AOTC to some extent. ROTS was the only one of the three to live up to the tone it set in its trailers.

Some of those shots from the TPM trailer are just so damn dramatic...but aren't in the movie. IE, the one of the Gungans in DP's post.


Post Posted: May 9th 2006 8:00 am
 

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Ternian wrote:
The whole plot around employing the Gungans to fight is fluff too. Its the same plot point that surfaced in AotC - to get the Clones to fight for the Republic/get Gungans to fight for Naboo.

As for fluff - I believe several AotC plot points would have made a better TPM. A better TPM could have been:

1) The Separatist Crisis opens the movie - but not including the commerce guilds.

2) Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are secretly sent by Chancellor Valorum to bring the separatists back into Republic.

3) The Separatists attempt to kill the Jedi before negotiations begin.

4) The Jedi discover a huge delivery of battle droids arriving on the planet.

5) The pair of Jedi escape from the Separatist leaders with the help of a young slave boy called Anakin Skywalker.

6) The Jedi, along with Anakin, try to discover the source of the battle droids as they escape the planet hidden on a secret military freighter.

7) The freigther lands on the planet of Geonosis. The Jedi discover a huge battle droid factory. They relay the information back to the Chancellor.

8) Introduce the Loyalist Committee led by a young Senator Amidala who puts the pressure on the Chancellor Valorum to end the Separatist crisis. The Committee includes Senator Palpatine. Senator Organa notes that local planetary security forces are no match for a battle army. Yoda states 'do their duty, the Jedi will" - as long as the Chancellor agrees.

9) Chancellor Valorum refuses to send the Jedi to end the crisis. Palpatine suggests Amidala nominate to pass a 'vote of no confidence' in the Senate. She does and Palpatine is elected as the new Chancellor. He immediately calls upon the Jedi to close down the Separatist droid factory.

10) Master Dooku is unhappy with the Jedi taking on a role to get involved and leaves the Council in defiance.

11) The Jedi arrive at the droid factories of Geonosis. A battle begins.

12) Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan discover that Dooku has turned to the Dark Side of the Force. They try to kill him, but Qui-Gon is killed and Dooku escapes. Qui-Gon asks that Obi-Wan train Anakin to become a Jedi.

13) The movie ends with Chancellor Palpatine standing with the Masters of the Jedi Council and the Loyalist Committee, watching 10000 Jedi leaving to protect the planets still loyal to the Republic.


----> this kinda relieves the plot jungle of AotC and creates a stronger base for TPM (in my opinion of course ;) ).


YES!! Bravo. I like this story a hell of a lot more than the TPM we got from Lucas. :heavymetal:


Post Posted: May 9th 2006 10:57 am
 

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It's okay by itself, but it gives you no context for the war. TPM works because we know how the Republic operates and where the bureaucracy has gotten completely out of hand. It gives the events in AOTC and ROTS resonance.


Post Posted: May 9th 2006 11:06 am
 
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Okay who the hell let Demodex out of his cage??? :o


Post Posted: May 12th 2006 10:27 am
 
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i still couldn't give a spit about all of naboo and hope it's the emperors first choice for death star target practice.

upon reflection: this comment makes no fucking sense whatsoever seeing as alderan bit the dust first in ANH.


Post Posted: June 4th 2006 7:33 pm
 

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TPM is interesting to me as a reflection of who the filmmaker was when he made it - GL seemed much more interested in the sociology of the SW universe in TPM than he did in the OT. I find a strong undercurrent of galactic caste, as someone in an earlier post pointed out. There are simple statements that speak about the bigger problems of the galaxy and it's society - Padme's ignorance of slavery, Padme and Nass's mutual dislike/distrust/ignorance of each other's species, the infighting and corruption of the senate, the beauracracy of the corporations and their influence on the machinations of politics. Although it's never played out in the PT films, one can imagine Palpatine's frustration with the inneffectual Nemoidians (and subsequently the Geonosians and the leaders of the Seperatist council (all aliends by Ep 3)) leading to his overall dislike of non-humanoid beings.

There is also a strong theme of duality in the film, which becomes a major motif in the saga; for example - Padme has a duality in the persona of Queen Amidala, Palpatine has a duality in the persona of Darth Sidious (although the story doesn't overtly reveal this); there is a duality (symbiosis) that must be struck between the Naboo and Gungans if they are to survive; there is a duality (symbiosis) between the midichlorians and all living things (one thing that I find fans tend to forget when they criticize the midichlorian issue is that Qui-Gon states the EVERYONE has midichlorians in their blood stream, but some have more than others - it doesn't follow that midichlorians ARE the Force or that it contradicts Ben's description of the Force in Ep 4 - it's just a scientific explanation rather than a spiritual one. Does anyone think Han Solo was particularly strong in the Force, or could become so with or without midichlorians?). Anyway, this theme of duality reaches it's ultimate peak and simplicity in the balance of Good and Evil in Anakin - once in ROTS when he decides to kill Mace and join Palpatine and learn the ways of the Sith and again in JEDI when he decides to betray Palpatine and throw his down the shaft. There is duality in the training of a Jedi, and it turns out, a Sith - master and apprentice - always 2 there are. There is even a duality to the Force itself in Ep 1 - the living Force versus the other Force (I forget what its called at the moment, sorry). Throughout the saga, this duality continues on in Princess Leia (Imperial Senator/Rebel Leader), Han Solo (scoundrel/hero), Ben Kenobi (crazy hermit/Wise Jedi), and Darth Vader (machine/man).

Watching all 6 films in numerical order, TPM is an unusual entry - it's separated from the others by such a long time (10 years), and the characters who become central to the story play fairly supportive roles (Obi-Wan and Anakin), leaving center stage to Qui-Gon and the Queen, one of whom for all intents and purposes exits the saga by the end of the film, while the other becomes less and less important until her demise. There are many moments of symmetry between TPM and ROTJ, such as the funeral pyre for Qui-Gon (echoed in Vader's pyre in RTOJ), the Pod Race (echoed in the speeder bike chase), the short of Obi-Wan radling a dying Qui-Gon next to the bottomless pit (Luke cradling a dying Vader next to a bottomless pit), the helicopter shot that introduces the Jedi Temple (the helicopter shot the introduces Emperor's throne room on the Death Star 2). I felt Lucas succesfully bookended the Saga with many visual elements. Certainly the Gungans and the Ewoks mirror each other both in their conception and in their unpopularity with fans.

Sadly, Luke and Leia become smaller characters in the PT when it's viewed in the context of the 6 films, since their overall dramatic purpose is to undo the damage Anakin caused; Anakin becomes the overarching focus of the six films (despite his supporting role in Ep 1.) One interesting re-emergence is the feeling at the end of Empire that Luke really could turn to the dark side in Ep 6 (if you pretend not to know what's going to happen in JEDI) - having watched his father fall from good, it becomes that much more believable that the son would fall as well - although you see that without a "dying wife" (a potent carrot on a stick) to use against him, Palpatine is not successful in corrupting Luke as he did Anakin - he must instead resort to threatening speeches and clumsy attacks against his friends.

Also, the dramatic structure of TPM mirrors the structure of ANH - in TPM Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan lead us to Padme who lead us to Tatooine and Anakin, which gets us to Coruscant which ends up sending us back to Naboo to destroy the Trade Federation blcokade/droid army. In ANH, the robots lead us to Luke who leads us to Ben who leads us to Han who gets us to Alderaan (almost) which helps us rescue the Princess which gets us to Yavin and gets us to destroy the Death Star. (EP 2 also mirrors Ep 5 - Anakin and Padme go off together in fall in love (a la Han and Leia) while Obi-Wan searches out a mystery on a strange hidden planet (Luke goes to the mysterious Dagobah) then the 3 are reunited in a climatic battle (Han, Luke and Leia all end up on Cloud City for the final act). Oh, and the bad guys win in both films too. Ep 3 mirrors Jedi to a degree - the opening act of both films is a rescue mission for an important character (Palpatine/Solo) while the closing act centers on a climactic sword fight between 2 "brothers"/father and son.

People often dismiss the Trade Federation taxation storyline as too small a story for the film, and perhaps they are right in terms of TPM being a stand-alone film. But I don't think TPM is truly intended as a standalone film - it was concieved as the opening chapter in a 6-part saga. I like the fact that the origins of the Galactic Civil War are traced back to this seemingly unrelated, arcane trade dispute. That's a realistic notion when one examines the true history of our society. (e.g. the assasination of Archduke Ferdinand triggering a World War). I think many of the criticisms lobbed at the plot of the film could equally be lobbed at the much love FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING if you examine it as a stand-alone film - the battle of Helm's Deep from TTT is a much more critical and important battle than the one that closes FOTR, but FOTR has to tell the story it has to tell as the opening chapter in a saga - and people seemed to accept that going in. In this regard, I think TPM gets a bum rap.

Hey I know I'm not gonna change anyone's mind if they hate TPM, but I hope people enjoy reading about the good things people see in it.

For what it's worth, for me ROTJ is the weakest of all the SW films - the complete castration of Han Solo's character is a disappointment, the low-rent death of Boba Fett is a major disappointment (especially considering the buildup the character gets in Ep 2), the Ewoks are on par with the Gungans for their dislikability and supposed cutesy-factor, and perhaps most offensive is the utter dismissal of any leadership qualities on the part of Leia - she literally becomes eye candy for the first half of the film and becomes the lame-duck Han Solo's underling for the second. In the "humor" department, I would characterize the torturing of a robot as ridiculous as anything in Ep 1(well, ok, not the ick icky goo or fart jokes) and Palpatine's characterization by McDiarmid, although enourmously enriched by his work in the PT, borders on the mustache-twirling scenery chewing of a bad B-movie (with echoes of a pedophiliac Mr Burns thrown in for good measure). That isn't to say TPM doesn't have it's shortcomings - it certainly does, but somehow I can accept them since TPM is the opening chapter in a six film saga. ROTJ is supposed to be the big finish to the entire story, and we get half a movie devoted to the Muppet show (complete with musical number), and half a movie following teddy bears around a forest while the Empire acts like buffoons and the Emperor says creepy, vaguely sexual things to Luke before dying from a bad fall. And to finish the whole thing up? A big campfire singalong! Yipeee! Wizard! That isn't to say ROTJ doesn't do things right - I think all the interplay between Luke and Vader works very well and was only deepened by the PT, and the special effects in the space battle are perhaps the ultimate achievement in the quickly dying art of non-digital, motion-control optical compositing.

Finally, it's interesting to me to see how closely Lucas kept the PT to the opening prologue of the original novelization to Ep 4, written by Alan Dean Foster in 1976 - check it out next time your at the bookstore.


Post Posted: June 5th 2006 12:40 am
 

Join: October 6th 2004 8:26 pm
Posts: 395
Excellent post!

That's a good point about the taxation issue. Frankly, one of the subplots of the PT had to be the rise of the Empire. To understand why that was a bad thing, you had to see what the democratic process was like, how it worked, how broken it had become by the beginning of TPM, etc. A lot of fans wanted to immediately jump to the iconic good stuff (Clone War, Vader, out of place epic battles, etc) and, as a result, missed out on a lot of good stuff. As you said, the tiff with the Naboo was the Gulf on Tonkin incident that would later culminate in galactic civil war. It's strange to think how much different things might've been if Qui-Gon had managed to cut through the door aboard the Trade Federation ship and arrest the Neimoidians.

In terms of Luke giving in to the Dark Side, the pivotal moment came when Vader threatened Leia. That was obviously what set Luke off. In that moment, his temptation to protect the only true family member he's ever known was probably every bit as overwhelming as Anakin's natural instinct to want to save Padme. This actually works quite well for me.

I didn't have the same problems with the Emperor that you did in ROTJ, but I'll drink to that other stuff. I like ROTJ okay, but it just doesn't reach the heights of anything else in the saga. It doesn't have the subtle wrinkles of TPM, it doesn't have the intrigue of AOTC, it doesn't have the tragedy and payoffs of ROTS, there's nothing like the sense of wonder from ANH and it doesn't have anything approaching the emotional climaxes of ESB. It's just not a good Star Wars movie. The acting from Ford and Fisher is in the toilet, Guiness looked bored out of his mind, the dance sequence is superfluous and distracting (yes, even the puppet version), frankly Luke and Lando are the only characters who seem to be in any peril. The Luke/Emperor/Vader scenes are very good, but the rest of the plot just wasn't firing on all cylinders. It would've been nice for the Ewoks to have had some real justification for throwing in with the Rebels. The Empire didn't seem to be bothering them beyond setting up a small outpost in their forest. If we'd seen stormtroopers using them as target practice or if the Emperor was planning to test the (retreaded) Death Star II on Endor, that might've given some motivation for the Ewoks to fight. The Gungans were being threatened every bit as much as the Naboo in TPM so it made complete sense for the two sides to join forces to defeat the Federation. Nothing like that is supplied for the Ewoks and the film suffers from the cute factor as a result.


Post Posted: August 24th 2007 1:43 pm
 

Join: July 29th 2007 3:01 pm
Posts: 47
I just wanna see Padme go ass to mouth .

That would be a much better moment than anything she did in the OT, and far more worth the price of admission.


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