Superman & Batman 2015

[CoGro]

• hollywoodreporter.com /superman-batman-film-set-comic-589521/
• ign.com /report-supermanbatman-movie-planned/





Written by Snyder and Goyer, directed by Snyder, influenced by Dark Knight RETURNS (correction).

Nerdgasm announcement of the year probably, but its tempered for me by the fact that MoS was underwhelming.

[The_Somnambulist]

Influenced by The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller.

I'm not really excited either because of the taste MOS left in my mouth. Snyder is far from a stand-out director.

[thecolorsblend]

As long as it's not some Batman circlejerk where he beats up on Superman, I'll be happy.

[CoGro]

ign.com /comic-con-man-of-steel-sequel-likely-called-batman-vs-superman/



Looks like you won't be happy.

To be honest, I never really bought the fight they had in Miller's TDKR. Superman can travel faster than the speed of sound, lift buildings and incinerate metal with his eyes yet a human in a robot suit (without the help of Kryptonite) beats him down? It's like the ultimate in fan-contrived shlock.

I can just see the both of them rocketing through Gotham as Superman murders another 100,000 innocents in collateral damage.

[E_CHU_TA!]

Here's video of the announcement.

I thought MOS had more positives than negatives. In turn, I was up for this one. After watching Snyder in the clip and reading the article above, I am also worried that it will only be two hours of this:

[CoGro]

I thought MOS had more positives than negatives. In turn, I was up for this one. After watching Snyder in the clip and reading the article above, I am also worried that it will only be two hours of this:

If Batman is going to be part of this universe, I would just much rather they re-establish the character properly. Get a writing team that understands the character and a crew that is dead-set on building the kind of world that the best Batman stories are told in. Draw inspiration from the Arkham games, the Animated Series, etc. Give Gotham City the personality and characterization that even the Nolan films - well, at least TDK and TDKR - didn't attempt to create. The best thing to come out of Zack Snyder's newly created DC Cinematic Universe is the notion that anything is fair game. That means Clayface is fair game; ditto for Ivy, Hatter, Killer Croc, Mister Freeze and the rest of Batman's amazing rogues gallery.

Instead, I fear we're going to get the kind of film that the worst kind of fans want.

[thecolorsblend]

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/07/23/comic-con-man-of-steel-sequel-likely-called-batman-vs-superman

Looks like you won't be happy.

To be honest, I never really bought the fight they had in Miller's TDKR. Superman can travel faster than the speed of sound, lift buildings and incinerate metal with his eyes yet a human in a robot suit (without the help of Kryptonite) beats him down? It's like the ultimate in fan-contrived shlock.

I can just see the both of them rocketing through Gotham as Superman murders another 100,000 innocents in collateral damage.

I am skeptical. It seems a little hard to believe that Snyder and Goyer would go to all that trouble setting up what a badass Superman is if they were just going to have Batman kick his ass in the sequel.

If Batman is going to be part of this universe, I would just much rather they re-establish the character properly. Get a writing team that understands the character and a crew that is dead-set on building the kind of world that the best Batman stories are told in. Draw inspiration from the Arkham games, the Animated Series, etc. Give Gotham City the personality and characterization that even the Nolan films - well, at least TDK and TDKR - didn't attempt to create. The best thing to come out of Zack Snyder's newly created DC Cinematic Universe is the notion that anything is fair game. That means Clayface is fair game; ditto for Ivy, Hatter, Killer Croc, Mister Freeze and the rest of Batman's amazing rogues gallery.

Instead, I fear we're going to get the kind of film that the worst kind of fans want.

Fuck that noise. The last time a Superman/Batman team-up was on the agenda, the fandom had a meltdown and bitched and cried that individual movies should be done first. So that happened. Then sequels to those movies should be done before a team-up. And then that kind of happened. And then it became let the directors finish their trilogies (ie, let Nolan further ass-rape Batman). Fuck that, they've got their little realistic jackoff festival; bring on the reboots and team-ups. It's way past time.

[E_CHU_TA!]

Goyer has confirmed the title, but not the order of the names.

A brief synopsize of the pervious Batman vs. Superman film that was development is below. As is, the story only has to be slightly modified to fit in with the post TDKR and MOS universe. Though, I'm not sure how you can smoothly transition from Nolan's grounded Wayne to a totally-lost-his-shit Batman without a leap of faith on the audience's part. It does sound like an interesting idea.

Spoiler

• Movieline – How Batman vs. Superman’s Development Hell Gave Way to Batman Begins

Warner Bros evidently saw a team-up movie as more than just a tantalizing possibility, but a viable way of bringing the Superman and Batman franchises out of the development mire. It was soon confirmed that the studio was excited about a script entitled Batman vs Superman, written by Se7en and Sleepy Hollow scribe Andrew Kevin Walker and subsequently "polished" by Akiva Goldsman (Batman Forever, Batman & Robin, A Beautiful Mind), in which the characters would begin as allies, albeit with radically different worldviews, before facing off in a showdown brought about by Bruce Wayne’s familiar desire to avenge the violent killing of a loved one.

The story begins five years into Bruce Wayne’s life post-Batman, having put his costume back into the closet following the death of Robin. He has settled down, married a woman named Elizabeth, and is happier than ever. Over in Metropolis, however, Superman has not been so lucky in love, having been dumped by Lois Lane due to the myriad difficulties of being Clark Kent’s girlfriend. When The Joker, previously thought dead, kills Elizabeth with a poison dart, Bruce takes it hard. First, he blames Superman, because the Man of Steel saved The Joker from a fatal beating just before the murder; second, he resumes the mantle of Batman — not, this time, under any pretense of metering out justice, but for the sheer cathartic pleasure of beating up bad guys. Superman, who has been busy wooing his first love, Lana Lang, in Smallville, tries to talk Bruce out of his vengeful ways, an act which ultimately pits the two heroes against each other. Eventually, it transpires that Superman’s nemesis Lex Luthor was behind The Joker’s return, hoping that Batman and Superman would kill each other. Instead, the two heroes unite to defeat first The Joker, and finally Luthor, the man fundamentally behind Elizabeth’s death.

Opinions from Internet script reviewers were divided, either over the details of the Walker and Goldsman drafts, or the very idea of having Batman and Superman go mano a mano. Responding to an unfavorable review of Goldsman’s rewrite by Coming Attractions’ Darwin Mayflower, Batman on Film reporter "Jett" said that, while he had not read the Goldsman draft, “I very much liked Walker’s original... I thought it was a very dark and powerful script and had a very clever way of pitting Batman against Superman. Mayflower flatly does not like the squaring off of Bats and Supes... [whereas] I found it quite exciting — plus you know that they are going to end up as allies in the end. Mayflower also has a problem with Goldsman’s (who many credit for the killing of the Bat-franchise with his p.o.s. Batman & Robin script) rewrites,” Jett added. “The only reason I can come up with why WB let Goldsman do rewrites was to lighten the script up a bit. Walker’s original — in my opinion — was dark. Perhaps WB thought too much so.”

Nevertheless, the studio was sufficiently excited about the script to postpone its plan for a new stand-alone Superman film and a fifth Batman in order to fast-track Batman vs Superman for a 2004 release, with Wolfgang Petersen (Das Boot, The Perfect Storm) at the helm. “It is the clash of the titans,” the German-born director told Variety in July 2002. “They play off of each other so perfectly. [Superman] is clear, bright, all that is noble and good, and Batman represents the dark, obsessive and vengeful side. They are two sides of the same coin and that is material for great drama.” Petersen subsequently spoke to MTV.com about his love for the Batman and Superman films, “especially in both cases the first two. I saw them over and over again.” Batman vs Superman, he added, would be part of the lore of the films and the comics, “but it’s also different. First of all, the dynamics are different because if they are in one movie together it changes a lot of things and it gives you a new perspective on superheroes... You also have the look and feel of Metropolis, the bright golden city, and the feel of Gotham, which is a shadowy, sinister city, in the same movie. This is Superman/Batman of the time after September 11th, also. It takes place in today or tomorrow’s world.”

[Maveritchell]

As long as it's not some Batman circlejerk where he beats up on Superman, I'll be happy.

I think that the reason so many people (authors, etc.) do this and the reason that the movie probably needs to do this (at least a little) is because to make a team-up work, you need to establish two people as somewhat equal. The unstated (because it doesn't even need to be stated - everyone intuitively gets this) point that Superman could warp speed Batman into paste doesn't need as much support as the notion that Batman could operate as an equal to a flying brick, so a lot is invested into showing that Batman can "beat" Superman.

It doesn't have to be a fight, of course, but a fight is the most immediately accessible metric for "equality" when we're talking about people whose power is fighting other people. I'd love it if they simply did a translation of the DCAU "Superman meets Batman" moment (which gives each character their comeuppance), but the powers that be at WB seem hesitant to use the kind of simple, straightforward approach to the characters that was used in their animated outings.

[thecolorsblend]

I'd be inclined to agree with that if Miller's take hasn't become more or less orthodox. These days, the prevailing wisdom is that if Batman and Superman meet without Superman getting his ass kicked, it's because Batman was in a good mood. If they must roll with each other, do it like Marvel used to where there's no clear winner after the heroes slug it out.

[Maveritchell]

I'd be inclined to agree with that if Miller's take hasn't become more or less orthodox. These days, the prevailing wisdom is that if Batman and Superman meet without Superman getting his ass kicked, it's because Batman was in a good mood.

Well sure, and I'm not saying that it's not a (even subtly enforced) meme in the comic-books/genre fandom that Batman beats Superman in the same way 10 is greater than 9. What I'm saying is that a movie like this can't just be made for the culture that rolls their eyes at this kind of thing. The general moviegoer will have the tacit understanding that the guy who can fly and punch out buildings could roll over the average Joe with a lot of toys, and they could use a setup that involves average Joe showing potential superiority over the superhuman. Then it's a little easier to suspend disbelief and say "oh, okay, I can buy these two guys working together."

You and I (and likely everyone else here) could definitely go for a story that doesn't need to hammer in the Superman vs. Batman memes that are so prevalent in the culture, and if we lived in a world where movies like this could be made just for us, I'd be in 100% agreement with you. That's sort've why I posted the clip - that take on it says these things, in this order:

1) Batman doesn't care how strong people are
2) Superman doesn't care what you care about, he'll still toss you around like a ragdoll
3) No matter how smart or clever you are, you're dealing with a demigod with incredible powers
4) Power can make you complacent, and a smart or clever person will take that and run with it

Like you, I like a little push and pull, but I think it's important to show that Batman can best Superman by virtue of his own merits and not through contrived circumstance. It's also important to remind the watcher that, all other things being equal, Batman is basically a flea to Superman, but that second thing is more important for the fan than it is for the average moviegoer (since they'll be working under this assumption anyway). Batman doesn't need to be better than Superman, but a story where they're going to be partners does have to establish that he's his equal.

[thecolorsblend]

I think no matter how it's done, wide audiences will struggle with the idea at least as much as I do. Maybe I'll proven wrong but my gut instinct is Joe Sixpack will assume the guy who can shoot fire out of his fucking eyes wins just by showing up. If the only way the filmmakers can justify Batman's presence is for him to beat Superman up, this film is already behind the 8-ball.

The rest of the animated WF movie you posted the clip from justifies both characters in the story while mostly playing them as complementary to one another rather than confrontational. That's a philosophy Goyer and Snyder would do well to use in their own script.

[CoGro]

I think no matter how it's done, wide audiences will struggle with the idea at least as much as I do. Maybe I'll proven wrong but my gut instinct is Joe Sixpack will assume the guy who can shoot fire out of his fucking eyes wins just by showing up. If the only way the filmmakers can justify Batman's presence is for him to beat Superman up, this film is already behind the 8-ball.

This is how I feel. The concept of making them fight is as interesting to me as this:



It's sandbox action figure stuff. Totally ridiculous.

A good filmmaker knows restraint: the last third of Man of Steel tells me Zack Snyder won't exercise that when it comes to his Batman v. Superman movie.

[Maveritchell]

The rest of the animated WF movie you posted the clip from justifies both characters in the story while mostly playing them as complementary to one another rather than confrontational. That's a philosophy Goyer and Snyder would do well to use in their own script.

Yeah, I know. I think that it's a given that the two anchors of the DC universe can't be at each others' throats for long. Unfortunately, the you-and-him-fight meetup is such a prevalent trope that I think it's unavoidable (especially given how they've already couched the movie at SDCC). The characters are at their best when they're buddies with different philosophies, but I'll maintain that it's important for them to "cross swords" in some way to establish some level of mutual respect for each others' capabilities. If they don't see each other as equals, it's harder to buy into the "partner" relationship. No one wants a movie where either Batman or Superman is the sidekick to the other. World's Finest (and by extension, the rest of the DCAU) did a neat job of showing them in that "each uplifts the other" relationship.

And they don't have to brawl, which is why I posted the clip I did. It showed Batman trying to outfight Superman and then getting beaten and then Superman trying to outsmart Batman and getting beaten. In short, they need a confrontation, but it doesn't have to be with fists, and it shouldn't last, it should just be used to introduce them to each other (and justify their respective roles). The moviegoer just needs to see that Batman can fill roles that Superman can't and vice-versa, and that those roles are both required for success.

[CoGro]

Yeah, I know. I think that it's a given that the two anchors of the DC universe can't be at each others' throats for long. Unfortunately, the you-and-him-fight meetup is such a prevalent trope that I think it's unavoidable (especially given how they've already couched the movie at SDCC). The characters are at their best when they're buddies with different philosophies, but I'll maintain that it's important for them to "cross swords" in some way to establish some level of mutual respect for each others' capabilities. If they don't see each other as equals, it's harder to buy into the "partner" relationship. No one wants a movie where either Batman or Superman is the sidekick to the other. World's Finest (and by extension, the rest of the DCAU) did a neat job of showing them in that "each uplifts the other" relationship.

And they don't have to brawl, which is why I posted the clip I did. It showed Batman trying to outfight Superman and then getting beaten and then Superman trying to outsmart Batman and getting beaten. In short, they need a confrontation, but it doesn't have to be with fists, and it shouldn't last, it should just be used to introduce them to each other (and justify their respective roles). The moviegoer just needs to see that Batman can fill roles that Superman can't and vice-versa, and that those roles are both required for success.

Extremely well put.

I trusted the WB Animation Group and Paul Dini far more than I do Zack Snyder, though.

[thecolorsblend]

Extremely well put.

I trusted the WB Animation Group and Paul Dini far more than I do Zack Snyder, though.

I'm more worried about David Goyer than I am Snyder. Goyer always seemed like more of a Batman guy to me. MOS went to pains to show that the time of Richard Donner's lameass "protector" bullshit is over. The Superman from MOS will kick anybody's ass if they pose a threat. I can't picture that he'd go to all the trouble to establish the character in that way just for some sheep wankfest where Superman gets taken apart by a toothpick in a cowl. No, I think (or maybe just hope) Snyder will keep the film honest.

Even so, I'm talking out my ass on a lot of this stuff. The "Batman beats up Superman" shtick is just a pet peeve of mine. It's not a deal breaker for a movie where they team; it's just a crutch used by hack writers who are convinced that imitating Frank Miller is still the cool thing to do.

[E_CHU_TA!]

At this point, this seems inventible: Zack Snyder to meet with Frank Miller for ‘Batman vs. Superman’ advice.

Miller’s own thoughts on the dialectical relationship between Batman and Superman start at the 6:43 mark below.




Here’s The Dark Knight Returns' battle animated:

http://www.youtube.com/v//-GRG57PNdpg

http://www.youtube.com/v//m0Fw3zuu4-A

http://www.youtube.com/v//Ekrjsb5R5qE

Here’s an interesting theoretical deconstruction of Batman versus Superman in The Dark Knight Returns (from the animated adaption’s DVD):

[CoGro]

Latest rumours are that they're looking for an older Batman

[thecolorsblend]

The only source I've seen for that is Batman On Film by Jett/Bill Ramey. And forgive me if I don't think them credible. That page was mostly an unofficial part of Syncopy's marketing when they were doing Batman films. Jett was Nolan's publicity whore. Still, BOF has gotten tons on "scoops" flat out inexcusably wrong for a page so allegedly tied in to Hollywood sources as he claims. If you see anything on BOF, including that the sky is blue, find another source before you believe it.

[E_CHU_TA!]

BOF is essentially the TFN for Batman movies. That being said, The Hollywood Reporter puts Wayne's age in the 40's and lists Josh Brolin as the current front runner. This does seem to jive with BOF's report that WB's is looking closely at a Batman Beyond film. After a mid-40's Batman, the next step seems to be an elderly Wayne.

I'm not sure how these rumors fit-in with WB's larger plan for the DC heroes. It's possible that the studio plans to have its Justice League characters exist in a futuristic sci-fi world. I suppose that's one way to differentiate yourself from the Marvel movies.

[Topeka]

http://www.inquisitr.com/897541/christi ... l-2-rumor/

Rumor mill is churning.

[thecolorsblend]

It's also flat-out fucking wrong. I really wish web site admins would do two seconds of research before posting this stuff. The source seems to be...

“He could probably make $50 million for being in the movie 20 minutes,” my friend [who worked on The Dark Knight Rises and many other films produced by Legendary Pictures] observed. “And it would be worth every penny to the studio.” Sources close to Christian Bale have reportedly begun expressing their suspicions that Bale now views the Batman films in the same light that Robert Downey, Jr. views the Iron Man films.

I really wish web site admins would do two seconds of research before posting this stuff.

Basically someone in a position to know suggested, when asked, that Bale could ask for and probably get $50 million to come back and, through an online version of Telephone, that's become a serious offer that WB supposedly made.

As ever, don't believe everything you read on the Internet.

[CoGro]

And your Batman is... The Affleck!

ign.com /ben-affleck-to-play-batman-in-man-of-steel-sequel/



Not sure how I feel about the choice. I don't think I care enough about the project yet.

[Alexrd]

Not a bad choice to me.

[E_CHU_TA!]

It seems a little weird that this movie is filming already:

Watch Gotham City University take on Metropolis State University

At this point last year, MOS was still a big unknown. Plus, Episode 7 isn't underway yet.

The football scene will probably be a few seconds of screen time. I suppose it's a good short visual bridge to TDKR.

[Chostomo]

Fast & Furious actress Gal Gadot to play Wonder Woman in "Superman vs. Batman"



Emerging Star Gal Gadot Set For Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

[bearvomit]

the Flash is said to be making some kind of appearance as well. They're kinda doing things backwards from Marvel. Having the team up at the start, then the separate movies if enough interest is rallied up. It's probably going to be a train wreck though.

[Thundercracker]

There's rumors swirling about Doomsday being in it as well. If WW and Flash end up playing more than cameo roles you have to wonder if they're trying to cram way too much into this film. This endeavor still feels kinda unnecessary in the bigger picture and is also beginning to feel rather aimless in terms of its identity. Is it a Superman vs Batman movie? A Superman/Batman team-up movie? Or just a Justice League prologue of sorts?

On first impression I don't think Gal Gadot really looks the part of Wonder Woman but I'm not really familiar with her work so I'll have to reserve judgement. I was kinda hoping for Jamie Alexander even though it would have been weird having one actress play two characters in opposing comic movie brands.

[Cryostar]

Fast & Furious actress Gal Gadot to play Wonder Woman in "Superman vs. Batman"

Emerging Star Gal Gadot Set For Wonder Woman In ‘Batman Vs. Superman’

No

[Longtime_Sunshine]

I wonder if Edward Norton would be a good Lex Luthor. It'd be a cool "Fuck you" to Marvel and he looks good with a bald head. Why not, this movie already has too many actors and he'd fit in as the head of LexCorp. Why not hire someone like Norton to complicate matters? If all goes well he'll demand script approval and the movie will unravel.

[TroyObliX]

If Ed Norton's reported "creative" behind the scenes handiwork on the disappointing trainwreck that was the last Hulk movie is any indication, I'm certain the "fuck you" is to anyone who buys a ticket should he actually get involved in this. I can appreciate the bulk of his acting performances. He seems to be, however, an uber dork. And I'd just assume see him in non-comic book movies for the rest of his career.

I dunno', I have historically loathed DC comics, and the associated adaptations to film never got me going. The Man of Steel may have changed my mind, or at least made me open to the idea of giving this DC thing another chance.

[E_CHU_TA!]

The latest rumor/speculation is below. I suppose it makes sense.

‘Batman vs. Superman’ and ‘Justice League’ to film back-to-back?

I’m going to assume that everyone’s already seen the Doomsday and Joaquin Phoenix as Lex Luther rumors. Personably, I like the idea of casting Phoenix. He’s a solid actor who would bring a Ledger-like intensity to the role. He’s definitely won’t have a Hackman or Spacey taken on the character.

[Chostomo]

Batman Vs. Superman Movie Pushed To 2016

[The_Somnambulist]

Official Lex Luthor and Alfred Pennyworth casting confirmations!

Things are getting interesting. This and all that talk about this revelatory new Batsuit are kinda selling me on this film. Even after 2013's somewhat malodorous Man of Steel.

[Cryostar]

Da Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuq?

[Guru]

This was a really great article from Forbes about the recent changes over at WB

Most interesting part to me was: The new film is currently being written by Chris Terrio, from a screenplay by David S. Goyer. Charles Roven and Deborah Snyder are producing, with Benjamin Melniker, Michael E. Uslan, Wesley Coller, David S. Goyer and Geoff Johns serving as executive producers.

Looks like Goyer might be being pushed aside, and this can only be a good thing.

[E_CHU_TA!]

If Goyer is now marginalized, both he and Snyder can only blame themselves. As the article points out, this film has forced Warner to reexamine its DC licenses in relation to Marvel's. If you want big-time success, it makes sense to hedge your bets with proven marque talent. While I respect Goyer and Snyder, you can't say that their upper echelon Hollywood names.

I too wonder about Alfred's role. The revision of his character has been one of the better aspects of Beware the Batman. Iron's would indeed provide for a more dynamic action-oriented Pennyworth (if that's how he's going to be portrayed).

After you get over the surprise of Eisenberg being Lex, it's easy to see what new direction their going with his character. I hope it pays off.

[Guru]

Agreed. I think Eisenberg is actually going to do really well. My friend Justin on Twitter (@sixokay) posited an interesting theory that would not surprise me at all:

"Ten bucks says Eisenberg's Lex inherited the family fortune/business from his father who died in the battle of Metropolis in #ManOfSteel"

[Cryostar]

I've heard along those lines that he's not lex but Alex Luthor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Luthor,_Jr.

[Guru]

According to my Twitter feed this photo hit the web and was being reported as a leaked photo of Ben Affleck in the cowl, and to add additional flames to the fire, apparently WB started sending C&D's to any website that was hosting it, which makes me think it is legit.





corneillie-wizard.jpg

Additionally, someone lined it up nicely with the Jim Lee/Alex Ross Batman-Superman Painting. I think a photo done in this pose would make for an awesome reveal photo.

[Guru]

Another image from r/Batman this morning...

[Chostomo]

Ray Fisher cast as Victor Stone/Cyborg

[bearvomit]

Jason Momoa (Conan reboot) just signed as well, most likely Aquaman. Web Page Name

[Hokusai]

Justice League has been announced.

[Cryostar]

When it makes a premier date....until then, this is the best live action they've ever mustered:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0kHSllsVOE

[Guru]

First look at Ben Affleck in costume and the new Batmobile!!

Not gonna lie, I dig it. Only thing I don't like that much is the logo. Too much like TDKR in my opinion.

[The_Somnambulist]

The suit is hardly the revelation Kevin Smith built it up to be.



Still curious to see what a Snyder Batman looks like in action.

And are the neck and head once again linked by the suit? If so, means more awkward, overly dramatic and vulnerabilizing body turns to simply look around. The TDK and TDKR suits didn't have that issue.

[Guru]

Here is another version of the photo that has been lightened up to see more detail.



I really like the design of this suit except for the damn logo, I've never been a big fan of the DKR Bat Symbol.
Other than that, I fully expect the majority of the suit to be grey.

As for the cowl, I am not sure what to make of that. I liked the separated style from the Nolan-verse. However I wonder what material this is made of. I hope that it is something that he can easily turn his head in. As long as that is possible, I don't care that it is attached.

[E_CHU_TA!]

A lot of Miller with a bit of Bob Kane thrown-in. I like, but I also want see it in motion before I give it a full thumbs-up.

TDKR.png
KaneBatman.jpg

[CoGro]

It's Miller + Jim Lee. I've never liked the fat bat logo.

It's cool, but it doesn't change the fact that Snyder is directing and Man of Steel was a mess. Not to mention this movie seems to be a giant promo for Justice League.

The definitive Batman for me right now is the Arkhamverse.