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Post Posted: July 21st 2008 9:01 pm
 
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Title: darthpsychotic@gmail.com
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ETAndElliot4Ever wrote:
I've been a fan of Batman ever since I was a kid and I saw the 1989 movie. Perhaps like many of the fans from that generation, I also watched the 1966 movie and series in re-runs (come on, you know you took it seriously way back when). We also got that great animated series and Batman Returns, which is my favorite comic-based movie to this day. I had a bit of a falling out with the franchise as the movies started to suck, the toys went all medieval and they made that futuristic Batman Beyond show. I took some time off from Batman.

When Begins came out, I was not impressed. I thought it was a stellar 45 minutes that basically built up to a great film that never transpired. It was mediocre at best, but it had its moments. Dark Knight is, simply put, sensational. Believe the hype. Take it all in and enjoy it while you can. It's unlikely a movie like this will ever come around again. It's been a long wait for Batman fans, but we've finally got an absolutely awesome movie. When the Joker tells Batman "I think we're destined to do this forever", I got chills. Okay the suit's still bad, Batman's raspy voice is worse but hey at least they destroyed the Tumbler (please keep that car retired btw). I'll be damned if I wasn't semi-hard when the Batpod burst out of the Tumbler and spun after flipping Joker's semi. The collective gasps of the audience were literally louder than the movie. This is the greatest movie based on a comic franchise you're likely to see.


FYI, edited in bv's post is my review on the previous page. Also, on the previous page I caught EE4E's review which I think is somewhat similar to mine with some differences. I happen to like the new batmobile and feel it's integral to the re-imaging of Batman. The new Batsuit was something I was against because of it's Power Ranger, Green Goblin lines. In The Dark Knight - the suit is functional. The cape is used for gliding!

Dingo wrote:
That's an interesting thought. Personally I was fairly under-spoiled for this compared to most things by sheer timing and luck. I'd only seen 2 of the trailers, a couple of promo shots and pretty much nothing else.

I also can't discount the fact that I've been a big fan of Batman in comics for years, and the impact that seeing what I think is the way Joker should be on screen has influenced my view.


Eight months ago, the first six minutes was shown in IMAX and was known as The Dark Knight Prologue. There was intense security in theaters over the footage in an effort to prevent leaks. MF member E_Chu_Ta was lucky enough to view the footage, posted a lengthy synopsis. Shortly thereafter, the footage leaked and was posted all over. Quite a few of stills that leaked last summer (of which there were many) dealt with the first hour and the Joker in particular. Not to mention the massive amounts of viral advertising. Hence, the Joker fatigue - at least on my part.

Regarding the comics, obviously I read Miller's 1986 The Dark Knight Returns and was somewhat disappointed in the use of the title in a Begin's sequel as I felt it should be only used for a movie adaption of the novel. After viewing the film and watching my cam download ( :cool: ) - in my view Nolan's The Dark Knight *is* somewhat a re-imagining of Miller's The Dark Knight Returns novel. From Miller's Bat Tank possibly being re-imagined as Nolan's The Tumbler, down to the use the Bat-Gangs used in both the 1986 novel and the 2008 film. At the end of the 2008 film, we are at the halfway point of the 1986 novel: Hunt The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Falls.

The scene were Lucius Fox resigns over Bruce Wayne setting up a cellphone sonar spy network over the city, thus showing Batman has gone to far, to me was just as powerful as Joker and Two-Face hospital sequence. Batman is spying over the city he has sworn to protect in an effort to get the Joker. Batman is now a criminal.

TroyObliX wrote:
I haven't been compelled to see this one yet.


When you finally see The Dark Knight and see Batman "fly" you will hope one day that Marvel's Batman aka Moon Knight is made into a film. It is the best use of a cape in a movie yet. The fight sequences are superior to Begin's "shadow-boxing". Batman in The Dark Knight operates not unlike a SWAT team i.e. fast, surgical strikes and get the fuck out of there.

The 800mb cam I downloaded from demonoid is no longer there. Last night I attempted to upload it to adrive but it timed out after 5 hours. What I'll probably end up doing is using virtual dub and split it up into 3 or 4 watchable chunks. That way those who have slow connections can view it one at time or use the DOS copy /b command to join them into one big file.


Post Posted: July 21st 2008 10:57 pm
 
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Harvey/Two-Face was great. The scene where he's in the hospital with his head turned about to reveal the damage, my heart was exploding out of my chest. Also liked how they had the balls to kill off the female love interest. Only two scenes I can recall really got under my skin. One is the ferry scene, which was pretty major. Way too cheesy. The other is the last scene where Gordon's annoying kid annoyingly yells for Batman. It just temporarily kills the mood. I didn't really care for Batman's voice, but whatever. When Bale isn't trying hard to sound like that, he ends up sounding best, for instance when he's yelling at the Joker in the jail or at the very end after falling off the building.


Post Posted: July 22nd 2008 12:51 am
 

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ETAndElliot4Ever wrote:
One is the ferry scene, which was pretty major. Way too cheesy.


I agree. It also doesn't help that this scene is at around the two hour mark, and the audience is restless. It was hard to care about the people on the boats, but at least it served a purpose, instead of a random tense sequence.

ETAndElliot4Ever wrote:
The other is the last scene where Gordon's annoying kid annoyingly yells for Batman. It just temporarily kills the mood.


yes! I hated Junior.


I read somewhere that Mr. Reese ("myster-ies") will become a villain. It would be interesting since he knows that Bruce is Batman, but there isn't any bat villain with that name, is there?


Post Posted: July 22nd 2008 5:28 am
 
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Mr. Reese = Mystery = a question = The Riddler

I hope that actor isn't used, he got under my skin. creepy little rat. :mad:


updated weekend numbers came out. it made $158,411,483 friday through sunday. that's HUUUGGGEEE

Some Joker concept art from the art + script book were scanned:

ImageImageImage

the last one on the top cracks me up. I can just picture Nolan telling the artists to go bring back concepts of the Joker and some dude brings this one to him made outta crayons! :lol: "Is this what you wanted Mista Nolan? It's teh Jokaz"


Post Posted: July 22nd 2008 6:39 am
 
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darthpsychotic wrote:
The Joker was more like Ledger playing Anthony Hopkin's Hannibal Lecter character . I'm convinced any actor could do the job and all credit for should be given to the screenwriters.


I'm disagreeing a bunch in this thread with people I normally agree with. IE, CoGro's take on the music, I'll get to that later.

But the above statement from DP - I don't think I could disagree with a statement more. I don't expect to change anyone's mind, as one's reaction to an actor's performance is about as personal and subjective as it gets - but, screenwriters in general are so prohibited in terms of making any overt influences on the portrayal of a character within a script, that to give them credit for a character as physical as the Joker, that doesn't seem right to me. To be honest, I'd say the screenwriters are, at best, responsible for about 3% of what the Joker was on screen. As I said, screenwriters are condemned for making any notes in the script in terms of performance. On top of that, Nolan has said Ledger had carte blanche and pretty much came up with the character on his own.

And even considering that, that 3%, that script, the dialogue for the Joker, was - in the hands of a lesser actor - so on the nose that it could have destroyed the film and turned the Joker into some castoff bad-guy from a straight to DVD B-movie. Let's be honest, the Joker basically monologued (to steal a term from Incredibles) the entire film - out of Ledger, it was poetry, with another actor, it couldve been disastrous.


Post Posted: July 22nd 2008 6:57 am
 
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Bale was just arrested in London for apparently attacking his mother and sister. :o


Post Posted: July 22nd 2008 7:02 am
 

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He is the son his mother deserves, but not the one they need.


Post Posted: July 22nd 2008 10:34 am
 
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Title: darthpsychotic@gmail.com
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My not liking Ledger's character as much as others is admittedly pretty stupid and it begins and ends with Joker-fatigue and over-hype. Yes, Ledger did a great job with a role that could have played part in his death. The Joker and Two-Face hospital scene was a great performance. The only negative thing - I could have done without Joker running around with bomb-denators in his hand all the time.

Again, I went into this movie not being a DC or Batman fan and came out blown away by the Bruce Wayne and Harvey Dent characters. Another pleasant surprise was the Batman himself. The new batsuit in promos was too molded and creased in design yet looked fine in the film. Although I would agree with others that the cape and cowl should be one-piece.

The only weak points from the film I have are what I consider a slow (but necessary) first hour, Batman's growl, and the soundtrack. During the two-boat sequence at the end, it was like a keyboard note was pressed and the volume was slowly increased upward until the end of the segment.

Regarding Bale knocking the shit out of his mother, bitch probably had it comin to her. :whatevaho: :vfuckoff:


Post Posted: July 22nd 2008 10:48 am
 
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Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with not digging the movie or the Joker as others have. You like what you like. Nobody's going to tell me that the new Batsuit and Tumbler are better than the Keaton suits and 1989-1992 Batmobile, for instance. They'd just be wrong. Admittedly I was pretty mesmerized by Mr. J in this one. It's too bad Heath Ledger's done for and we'll likely never see his Joker again (though I heard rumors of additional footage shot possibly showing up in a third), but his death didn't alter my perception of his performance in the least. I've read Batman comics and, I mean, you can read these things and look at the artwork, imagine things, but seeing it literally coming to life in this movie was just brilliant.


Post Posted: July 22nd 2008 12:42 pm
 
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darthpsychotic wrote:
Regarding Bale knocking the shit out of his mother, bitch probably had it comin to her. :whatevaho: :vfuckoff:


I'm sorry, but I just couldn't stop laughing when I read that. Now the tough part is having to explain to everyone in the office just what I found so funny.


Post Posted: July 22nd 2008 1:41 pm
 
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Bale was released without any charges. it was a verbal assault :whateva:


Post Posted: July 22nd 2008 2:43 pm
 
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bearvomit wrote:
Bale was released without any charges. it was a verbal assault :whateva:


Yeah, but the story the rags will glom onto is "Batman in jail." I wonder how many bad Arkham Asylum puns we'll have to endure until this thing blows over?


Post Posted: July 22nd 2008 3:53 pm
 

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bearvomit wrote:
Mr. Reese = Mystery = a question = The Riddler

I hope that actor isn't used, he got under my skin. creepy little rat. :mad:


What about Edward Nygma?


Post Posted: July 22nd 2008 7:17 pm
 
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Obi-Wan Starkiller wrote:
He is the son his mother deserves, but not the one they need.


Quoted because it bears repeating. Good one Starkiller.

Quote:
To be honest, I'd say the screenwriters are, at best, responsible for about 3% of what the Joker was on screen. As I said, screenwriters are condemned for making any notes in the script in terms of performance. On top of that, Nolan has said Ledger had carte blanche and pretty much came up with the character on his own.

And even considering that, that 3%, that script, the dialogue for the Joker, was - in the hands of a lesser actor - so on the nose that it could have destroyed the film and turned the Joker into some castoff bad-guy from a straight to DVD B-movie. Let's be honest, the Joker basically monologued (to steal a term from Incredibles) the entire film - out of Ledger, it was poetry, with another actor, it couldve been disastrous.


I'm with Manny on this. Not to take away from the writing but Ledger owned the role. Look at the nuance in his performance. There's no way the screenplay could have conveyed the random quirks that informed his take on the character: the lip smacks, the blinking of the eyes, the tongue darting in and out of his mouth. That's all Ledger and that's the difference between a good actor and a great actor. His Joker is a living, breathing creation that I honestly can't imagine anyone else bringing to life at this point.

As far as the Reese character goes, I think we've seen the last of him in The Dark Knight.


Post Posted: July 23rd 2008 1:05 am
 
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Title: darthpsychotic@gmail.com
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I feel like a real jerk for daring to post against Ledger. When viewing The Dark Knight, I don't see or think about Ledger, I see someone who is literally the Joker which I guess is a testament to Ledger's acting ability. If you want positive remarks about the characterization from me here you go: When Joker was dressed up as a nurse he did it for me there and you can read whatever you want into that. The hospital sequence where [s]Palpatine[/s] Joker convinces [s]Anakin[/s] Two-Face into his world was probably the best part of the film (after the Tumbler2BatPod sequence).


At over 15 pages and 42,000 page views (at 50 posts per page) this two-year old thread is a messageboard unto itself. I didn't think it would end up with a Team Ledger and Team Bale and would like to thank everyone to coming post about it on a site with tacky heavy metal banners made in MSPaint :XD: :heavymetal:


Speaking of Team Bale:

tmz.com

Image

Christian Bale was one giant raw nerve just days before he allegedly pushed his mother. TMZ spies tell us Bale was on the set last Friday shooting "Terminator 4" at Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico.

During a scene, Shane Hurlbut (seriously), director of cinematography, screwed up a shot -- at least in Christian's mind. We're told Bale went ballistic, screaming "I will kick your ass" along with other choice remarks.

Several hundred people heard the outburst -- including Military Police -- which was described as "intense." We're told Bale was "extremely tired and having a bad day."


"I will kick your ass"

oh shit dawg he told them :whatevaho:


Post Posted: July 23rd 2008 2:13 am
 

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Quote:
Christian Bale was one giant raw nerve just days before he allegedly pushed his mother.


You mean just days before the most-hyped film of the year, of which he happened to be the star, was going to open?

Jeebus -- I wouldn't say the guy deserves a complete pass for acting like an asshole just because he's a Sensitive Actor. But I think some stress is understandable.


Post Posted: July 23rd 2008 6:28 am
 
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darthpsychotic wrote:
When viewing The Dark Knight, I don't see or think about Ledger, I see someone who is literally the Joker which I guess is a testament to Ledger's acting ability.


Like I said, I wasn't trying to deprive you of your right to not abruptly and firmly jump on the Ledger bandwagon like has become fashionable in the past couple weeks. I just think if we're going to create a credit/blame pie, that particularly for the Joker, this is one film where the actors were more important than the screenwriters.

In general, if we're going to put anyone in the overrated category, then IMO, it'd be the Nolans. Sure, they deserve a lot of credit for executing their dark vision of Batman - and a truer to form version of Batman - but the screenplay itself was not remarkable and I think it probably took form and reached its real drama once in the editing room (I doubt they wrote it the way it was cut, if they did, bravo). It had lots of ridiculously on the nose dialogue and made no attempt at subtlety. In a way, it was very theatrical - and if it weren't for extremely great and professional acting by Bale, Ledger, Eckhart, Oldman, Freeman and Caine, this movie - based on its script - would probably wind up as a cheesy B-movie. It's a testament to what great acting can do - the Nolans, I will give them credit for swinging for the fences. It was high-risk, high-reward with their style of writing, and maybe they knew all along they had the cast to pull it off. The end result was poetic, powerful drama.

But, I think the actors, the editor(s) and the cinematographer should take more credit for that than Christopher Nolan and his brother.


Post Posted: July 23rd 2008 2:04 pm
 
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Jesus H Christ. Batman did 24.5 mill on Monday and another 20.8 on Tuesday. That is a friggin shitload particularly considering what it pulled in over the weekend. Damn.

Fastest to 200 mill by 3 days:

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/fastes ... 200&p=.htm


Post Posted: July 23rd 2008 5:07 pm
 
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i saw it last night and it was amazing. I might see it again this weekend. Ledger was amazing, i love his body movements and how he was always licking his lips. yeah i was blown away.


Post Posted: July 23rd 2008 9:43 pm
 
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darthpsychotic wrote:
in my view Nolan's The Dark Knight *is* somewhat a re-imagining of Miller's The Dark Knight Returns novel. From Miller's Bat Tank possibly being re-imagined as Nolan's The Tumber, down to the use the Bat-Gangs used in both the 1986 novel and the 2008 film.

Also, Nolan uses the concept of the Joker being inspired by Batman and the fact that Batman will not kill the Joker. Overall, like Miller, Nolan placed the story in relation to the current political climate. Miller had Regan and the Cold War to content with and Nolan has the Bush Administration and the “War on Terror.”

The fact that Joker commits his crimes to prove a point is taken directly from The Killing Joke. It seems as with that Dent serves as Joker’s “ordinary man turned insane” rather than Gordon. Joker’s “multiple-choice” past and the integration scene were probably inspired by TKJ as well. His use of knives could have come from either book.

I especially like Nolan’s visual cue in the last Joker scene. He places Joker upside and directly across from Batman. Joker’s explains how the two are opposites of one another, and the Joker’s position places him physically opposite of Batman. Visually, he's like a reverse mirror image. This juxtaposition seems to be a variation of the playing card on the back of the Killing Joke:

From Image to Image

darthpsychotic wrote:
The only weak points from the film I have are what I consider a slow (but necessary) first hour ...

I’m not sure that the first half needed to be so slow. Overall, I’m pretty immune to pacing issues with films. The director should take just as long as he/she needs to get their point across. To me, if some portions of a film drag or barrel through at certain points, it’s acceptable as long as that’s what the story dictates.

The Hong Kong excursion may not be what the story requires. It seems if Nolan thought that a skyhook sequence would look cool, so he stuck it his Batman movie. It doesn’t appear to fit in within the story or themes of the film. It’s just there for the sake of itself.

One the strengths of Begins is that the story was very tight. Each character, theme, and plot point lead to the next. I didn’t completely get that feeling with TDK.

Don’t get me wrong I like the film a lot. It’s just that I currently hold Begins in a higher regard. Prior to watching the film, I didn’t expect that would happen.

At any rate, here are some very random thoughts about the movie:

    - As expected, there were strong performances all around. I agree wholeheartedly with Manny’s and Joe’s comments in this regard.

    - I have mixed feeling about the Joker contending that he is not insane. Traditionally, he revels in his madness, and, conveys it as some type of super-sanity. In TDK, Joker still claims smug superiority over the other characters, but is indignant about being called mad. Even though the end product is still the same, I feel that the traditional approach is more in line with the character’s values. That being said, I thought that Ledger’s delivery of the “No, I’m not” lines was perfect. He’s so subtly pissed at Gambol that you just have to laugh. I also got the sense that he’s had to defend himself in this manner many times in the past.

    - I was kind of surprised how the first half felt like a standard crime drama. This isn’t a criticism; it just took me back a little bit.

    - Having to change actors between films is annoying as it affects the consistency of the characterization. Mrs. Cruise was more maternal with Rachael will Maggie was more feisty. I have a feeling that criticisms about Maggie have more to do with her differing approach than her actual acting. I prefer the Begins Rachel, but have nothing against the TDK version.

    - For whatever reason, I can’t get enough of Wayne’s clueless billionaire shtick. The characterization is true to the mark in its portrayal of real life celebutantes who receive too much media attention.

    - I never really noticed the new suit. (This a little surprising to me as I do notice the difference between Vader’s costumes.)

    - Bale's Bat voice doesn't bother me, but I see why other's would be bothered by it.

    - I like the CSI elements (ballistics, DNA finger printing, etc). If Batman is a Detective, then he would use the latest techniques for investigating crimes. If the Joker is an evil genius, he would know how the get around and take advantage of said techniques.

    - Brian Douglas’s body hitting the mayor’s window made me jump even though I knew it was coming. His videotaped execution was very unsettling for me and the rest of the audience.

    - Joker is very noticeable during the funeral / assassination scene. (He’s the first police officer on the left). Even though, Ledgers face is out of focus, you can clearly make out the bright red smile scars on his face

    - I like Zimmer's score. Its much more subdued than other Batman films. I think this is the best approach for Nolan's portrayal. I love the subtle cue for when the Joker is about to appear.

    - Does Gordon really need to fake his death and how does this help him catch the Joker? I need help with this.

    - I like how the Joker uses his one phone call to escape from jail. As Ra’s states in the Begins, criminals use our freedoms against us. The cell phone bomb was a pretty clever way to highlight this fact. As a whole, Nolan seemed to present the moral dilemmas associated with the US’s current national security initiatives without moralizing. This is often indicative of a mature director, imo.

    - It seems that most of Anthony Michael Hall’s performance got left on the cutting room floor.

    - Reese has to be dealt with in some way in the next film. It is public knowledge that he knows Batman’s identity and there are plenty of ways to force him to talk.

    - I loved the Harvey Dent sticker on Joker’s nurse outfit. Both Eckhart and Ledger are perfect and intense during their hospital scene together.

    - Joker using the hand sanitizer is priceless. I used to work in a hospital and those things are all over the place.

    - Understandably, there is a two motif running throughout the film. That is, certain actions and characters echo one another. One example is the two squealing bookkeepers – Lau and Reese. I haven’t completely wrapped my brain around how pervasive this concept is in the movie.

    - During the scene where Dent is holding a gun on Detective Rodriquez, I laughed out loud. It seemed to me as if Two-face had walked out of The Long Halloween and on to the screen. They did a great job with his look.

    - I like the nod to the Joker’s death in Batman. The fact that Batman saves Joker in the TDK and not in Batman highlights the difference in Burton’s and Nolan’s approach to the character. Burton wanted to make a fun film with a gothic character. The fact that main villain died at the end of the film, worked well within the context of the story and set-up the franchise for more disposable villains in the future. The fact that Batman saves Joker in TDK is reflective of Nolan’s portrayal of a morally complex hero. Moreover, it reveals how Nolan is being true the modern day comic’s version of the Dark Knight.

    - In regard, to the next film, if you want to continue with more socially relevant themes, Poison Ivy can be tied into environmentalism / global warming and Black Mask or Max Zeus can be tied into corporate greed.

    As a whole, there is no reason to limit the number of villains. If you want to make another balls-out Batman film, I would include as many Bat baddies as possible and portray them as “realistically” as possible. The Arkham Asylum graphic novel is a pretty good template for this approach. In that book, each villain only appears momentarily and they help to further the plot and themes of the book.

    Just keep Joker out as a tribute to Heath. The end of the film should be the same as Begins with some indication that the Joker has escaped and Batman has now to go deal with him.

I’m seeing the movie again this weekend. If my opinion changes after a second viewing, I’ll let you know. I’m sorry I didn’t get a chance to post this earlier as I have been busy.


Post Posted: July 24th 2008 12:20 am
 
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CoGro wrote:

Ditto on Nolan re: fight scenes; Action just isn't his forte. The coolest action moment was the Bat Pod's upside down wall flip, but otherwise there wasn't much to the action except things going boom and people being punched.

I totally disagree about Iron Man and Transformers. Iron Man is a very, very good movie whose only real flaw (in my opinion) is the cartoonish climax. Just because a film doesn't take itself sternly serious doesn't mean it isn't good. In fact, I'd argue that Transformers has more replay value for its action/effects sequences alone whereas Dark Knight's the kind of film you watch start to finish.

Both films know their audience, and both deliver what you'd expect of a summer blockbuster.


Well, fair enough, Iron Man certainly has redeeming qualities (Downey Jr. is awesome of course). I certainly don't mind that it isn't totally serious (though there's a plothole here and there). I guess my biggest problem with it is that- like all of Marvel's Superhero movies since Spiderman- it basically uses a cookie-cutter formula to succeed that's almost entirely predictable (I guess you could argue in return though: what movie doesn't feel formulaic to some extent?). It doesn't make it a terrible movie, but it does get to me a bit. Nolan's takes on Batman feel fresher to me.

This is probably just a difference of personality, but Transformers had almost no replay value for me. The ridiculous middle act of that movie (when Sector 7 gets introduced) has always hindered that movie for me (then again, I didn't grow up a fan, so that might be why I don't love it). Dark Knight is the first movie since Sith that I feel compelled to watch repeatedly.

[hr]

Another performance I want to applaud from this movie is Oldman as Gordon. He was excellent in Begins (and a relief after that disgraceful take on the character in the Burton/Shmuck films), but he just shines in this film and- other than Bruce- the one guy you absolutely connect to watching this movie. There were actually people applauding in my theater when he catches the Joker and it's revealed he's not dead. Didn't someone mention here Oldman was unhappy with his screentime in this movie? I can't see why, he's a central figure to the protagonist side of the plot, second only to Bats (and maybe Dent).


Post Posted: July 24th 2008 3:58 am
 
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E_CHU_TA! wrote:
- Does Gordon really need to fake his death and how does this help him catch the Joker? I need help with this.


Probably to stall the Joker by making him believe he succeeded in taking out at least one important public official?

I took this the same way as the scene where Bruce Wayne supposedly closes up the bat-shop for good. At this point, the good guys are lying to the audience, keeping their real plans out of sight. When he showed up in full SWAT regalia, I wasn't clapping.


Post Posted: July 24th 2008 10:07 am
 
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E_CHU_TA! wrote:
- Does Gordon really need to fake his death and how does this help him catch the Joker? I need help with this.

The_Somnambulist wrote:
Probably to stall the Joker by making him believe he succeeded in taking out at least one important public official?

I took this the same way as the scene where Bruce Wayne supposedly closes up the bat-shop for good. At this point, the good guys are lying to the audience, keeping their real plans out of sight. When he showed up in full SWAT regalia, I wasn't clapping.


I thought it was to keep Gordon/Gordon's family safe from the Joker. Gordon was too important a player to lose, so the good guys acted first rather than waiting for the Joker to threaten him. Ironically, it comes back to haunt Gordon since Two-Face does to Gordon what the Joker probably would have.


I've seen it twice now and I have some updated impressions/observations:

- best musical cue of the entire film is during the montage after the bank robbery of people afraid to be out at night. I think there's a subtle nod to Elfman's theme when we see the Bat signal.

- As much as I love Heath's performance, I think the character is inconsistent. Personally, I think it's due to the evolution of the character during production; Joker's voice changes, his mannerisms change scene to scene (sometimes he has the walk, sometimes not), his make-up goes from solid to faded and back to solid (yes, I know this is intentional to some degree but he's almost two different people from the mob scene to the body bag scene, which are back to back). This sounds nitpicky, but I found myself liking certain versions of his performance more than others.

- I tolerated Bruce Wayne far more in this film than I did in Begins. I still think Michael Keaton is better; and I don't care how faithful or not that is to the comic. Keaton's Bruce is the quiet, more socially reserved billionaire that doesn't need to say how haunted/upset/tormented he is to get the point across whereas Bale is the billionaire-celebrity. Keaton is far more creepy than Bale could ever hope to be - and if the point is for Batman to be morally ambiguous and unsettling, I think Burton's take is better. Bale's motivation is better developed but Keaton's personality is better represented.

- It's been said a couple times already, but aside from the truck chase the action is extremely flat. I was bored during the action sequences and more excited for Heath's monologues.

- Katie to Maggie doesn't bother me a bit. Rachel was so forgettable a character in Begins that I almost forgot she was in this series at all.

- The new suit works because it's shrouded in darkness most of the time and when it's not they play the angles right. It's not as distracting as I feared it would be.

- Anybody but me think the final 'action' scene with Batman capturing Joker was lame? It totally didn't fit into the movie at all. Joker was standing by himself with 3 dogs against glass but no sniper could see him? What the hell was he doing there and what was his plan - hope nobody sees him? Can someone explain it to me because it's extremely goofy and out of character for Joker to stage such a rediculous climax. Also, why did Batman use his broken 'radar vision' to find the Joker after he disposed of the dogs? Why couldn't he have used good ol' fashioned EYESIGHT? It was a poorly staged excuse to allow for Joker to pin Batman while he was stunned.


Post Posted: July 24th 2008 4:27 pm
 
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I have one gripe in regards to the pacing/editing of this movie, because overall I think it is a well-edited and woven film (even stuff I thought might seem superfluous, like the Hong Kong bit, seem to fit in the story). This movie takes care of almost all its loose threads throughout the story quite nicely (even Gordon having to explain to his wife where the hell he was), all except one. When Bats saves Rachel from the fall, where the hell do Joker and his gang go? Does he say "Shucks, he saved her, let's just leave?", or do the cops show up? Granted it's fairly easy to intuit that the cops probably showed up and they fled, but it's never properly explained. Now, I don't consider this a big deal, being a Lucas fan (the king of leaving things up to the audience to decipher), but one line of dialogue could have sufficed. Gordon is in the scene directly after this, they could have dealt with it right there.


Post Posted: July 24th 2008 10:51 pm
 
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CoGro wrote:
Anybody but me think the final 'action' scene with Batman capturing Joker was lame? It totally didn't fit into the movie at all..

No, it didn't. It was the shitty ending of Batman Begins all over again. The ferryboat "social experiment" scene was totally botched. At that point it was like they just didn't give a fuck and crapped out these awful stereotypical cheesy Gothamite extras (not as bad as the ones in Sam Raimi's movies, but still pretty bad) contemplating which boat should be destroyed and taking votes on a piece of paper (?). You got the cliche girly white business man talking how the prisoners had their shot at living in their society and of course the big bad-looking guy that unsurprisingly throws the detonator out the window. Finally, we have Batman using that cell phone sonar thing, which honestly felt totally out of place in this series. The only thing about this scene that didn't suck was the final dialogue between Joker and Batman. Other than that, it was ridiculous.


Post Posted: July 25th 2008 1:23 am
 

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The ending is, I think, acceptable but should have been so much better.

- I actually hated that Batman had to tackle everyone/blow everything up to prevent the SWAT team from fucking his shit up. Couldn't he have just called up Gordon? Why wasn't he working with the police force?

- The social experiment makes a good point, but feels underdeveloped. Did the Joker do a similar experiment in the comics?

- Maybe it's just me, but Heath even seems bored with the ending. He always said he hated comic book movies and he was totally taking part in a typical comic book movie climax. He sounds flat and out of character.

- I hated all the SONAR shots. very video game.


Post Posted: July 25th 2008 10:10 am
 

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MannyOrtez wrote:
Jesus H Christ. Batman did 24.5 mill on Monday and another 20.8 on Tuesday. That is a friggin shitload particularly considering what it pulled in over the weekend. Damn.

Fastest to 200 mill by 3 days:

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/fastes ... 200&p=.htm


The Dark Knight continues to destroy the box office. The film added another $18,377,288 on Wednesday for a total of $222,150,806.

With the weekend projections anywhere between $65 and $80 million (not to mention Thursday's take) The Dark Knight could pass the $300 million mark 6 days faster than any other movie ever.

EDIT: Thursday's take was $16,464,405 for a total 7 Day take of $238,615,211


Post Posted: July 25th 2008 10:28 am
 
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The scene where Batman is in the techno club I had flashbacks of the Schumacher movies. TDK was actually loaded with references/homages to the previous movies.


Post Posted: July 25th 2008 11:21 am
 
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From Brade Runnah (Christopher Nolan's favorite film :schoolyou:):

Image

Cool coincedence.


Post Posted: July 25th 2008 12:34 pm
 
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For anyone interested in VFX work, CGtalk has a production focus up for The Dark Knight: http://features.cgsociety.org/story_cus ... ry_id=4609

I thought the club fight was stylistically very well done. It was an atmosphere that broke from the blue and black hues of the rest of the film. Rachael, however, was so unneccesary once again. She tended to ruin whatever mood was going through a scene with her bubbly, bitchy, :whatevaho: remarks. The audience I saw the film with shared my reaction.


Post Posted: July 25th 2008 8:10 pm
 
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The club scene made me think of Robocop.


Post Posted: July 25th 2008 10:04 pm
 
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Joker meeting with the mobsters reminded me of the scene with Jack and the mob in the 1989 movie. Both scenes had a guy telling Joker he was crazy. Also both movies featured a scene of Joker killing a guy with a writing instrument. The Batpod emerging from the Tumber was like the Batmissile from the 1989-1992 Batmobile in Returns. Hell, Batman tripping the Joker's semi reminded me of the AT-AT scene in Empire. Also both TDK and Batman featured Joker and Harvey Dent. Finally there's the where Joker is hanging from a cable, saved by Batman. As we know Joker was apprehended by Batman's grappling hook as he attempted to escape the roof of the cathedral in 1989 Batman, however ending catastrophically for him in that one.


Post Posted: July 26th 2008 6:41 pm
 
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I don't quite understand the criticism of Jack's joker for 'not going far enough'. The mob scene in Batman is pretty damn creepy if you ask me (in the context of the tone the film sets) and Jack comes off as a homocidal maniac just the same. Heath's Joker seems to relish the kill more, whereas to Jack killing is just natural. I guess whichever type of murderer is more haunting to you will influence your taste in which Joker is better.

I don't necessarily prefer one over the other; I think they're both great. I do think Jack has more one-liners but Heath is the deeper character.


Post Posted: July 26th 2008 8:30 pm
 
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The problem was that Burton just didn't get the relationship between Batman and the Joker.

The characterizations that we got in DK were thrown out and a simple revenge story was used instead.

The love triangle with Bruce, Vale and the Joker was incredibly lame too. I never understood what exactly his intentions with her were. For instance, why did he just leave her at the apartment instead of kidnapping her? There was nothing stopping him from doing so.

Otherwise, yes, Jack's Joker was just as much a killer and psycho as Ledger's, although, maybe not as nuanced.


Post Posted: July 27th 2008 7:25 pm
 
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TDK is at $314.2 million and counting:

http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/va/2008 ... 73700.html


I attended and sold-out IMAX showing today and was surprised at the turnout.

After a second viewing, I feel kind of silly about some of my earlier criticisms. I now understand the Hong Kong excursion and believe it fits logically within the story and themes of the film.

Longtime_Sunshine wrote:
The ending is, I think, acceptable but should have been so much better.

- I actually hated that Batman had to tackle everyone/blow everything up to prevent the SWAT team from fucking his shit up. Couldn't he have just called up Gordon? Why wasn't he working with the police force?

- The social experiment makes a good point, but feels underdeveloped. Did the Joker do a similar experiment in the comics?

- Maybe it's just me, but Heath even seems bored with the ending. He always said he hated comic book movies and he was totally taking part in a typical comic book movie climax. He sounds flat and out of character.

- I hated all the SONAR shots. very video game.

Batman can’t contact Gordon because Gordon leaves the site to go to his family. Also, there’s no time to explain to the SWAT team about the switch

Nolan could have gone with a big finale. However, he chose an ending that emphasized emotions over explosions. As a whole, I feel the sonar shots are unique and add to the suspense.

I didn’t think Ledger was flat. He’s just good in this sequence as he is in his other scenes. The last shot where he is swaying upside down is perfectly eerie.

I like how Joker uses a pipe to beat Batman. I think this is a nod to his use of a crowbar on Jason Todd.

Image


Post Posted: July 28th 2008 6:51 pm
 
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things to look for the next time you watch it:

- Joker early in the scene when he's dressed as a cop at the police funeral. I believe he's 2nd from the left. look for him in the honor guard when it's a over the shoulder shot during the mayor's speech.

- the bank robber wearing shoes on his hands after he gets shocked

- Ramirez mentions her mother in the hospital in her first scene with Gordon

-Batpod is made from the 2 front tires of the Tumbler

- Joker uses the broken glass to hold the guard hostage.

- Batman throwing one of the dogs down the long shaft at the end

- The cop the Joker holds hostage with glass is alive at the end when Gordon smashes the signal

- All the 2's everywhere. like the school bus number 22, Dent's coin is dated 1922,

- Gordon is driving the SWAT van the entire time. can see his glasses at one point. he never talks though

- The "I Believe in Harvey Dent" sticker on Nurse Joker

- Dent's coin is double faced, "Two-Faced"

- Maroni's bodyguard on the far left of the screen is grabed right before Maroni gets into the car with Two Face.

- Joker actually jumps on the goon after the street standoff scene, not Batman. he jumps up and down, mocks him getting electricuted, and even spits on him

- The man the Joker thinks reminds him of his father at Dents party is Senator Patrick Leahy

- The Joker says Dent is being held at 250 52nd street. 2 50/50 2nd street

- Lau is still on top of the pile of cash when the Joker burns it


Post Posted: July 28th 2008 9:22 pm
 
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TroyObliX wrote:
I haven't been compelled to see this one yet.

Same here. I'm hoping for a screening on the lot and/or a DVD rip.

I've been reading DP's review and such, because frankly(no pun intended) I'm blinded by the glare of The Dark Knight Returns, I really want to see that on screen. At this point I'm also blinded by the glare of over hype and too much marketing.

I want to let this first initial wave roll over so I can see it and yet be realistic about it.

Like recognizing the suckage that was Indy 4.
bearvomit wrote:
Some Joker concept art from the art + script book were scanned:

ImageImageImage

the last one on the top cracks me up. I can just picture Nolan telling the artists to go bring back concepts of the Joker and some dude brings this one to him made outta crayons! :lol: "Is this what you wanted Mista Nolan? It's teh Jokaz"

And yet the crude crayola concept was the closest to the final character design..


Post Posted: July 29th 2008 5:38 am
 
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Benovite wrote:
At this point I'm also blinded by the glare of over hype and too much marketing.

I want to let this first initial wave roll over so I can see it and yet be realistic about it.


Why not just go and have fun?? I mean, it IS just a comic book movie. No one is saying it's a life changing experience. It's not like getting really good pussy for a night. It's more like having a really good dinner with some friends for a few hours.

Just relax with it. It's a great way to escape this world for a bit, have some fun, think some, and be impressed by some really good acting. Is it perfect? Nope. I think they could've shaved 10-15 minutes off, (mainly the two boats at the end) and it would've been. But it's also pretty damn close and it's Not a "turn your brain off" kind of movie.

Be glad that it's being taken seriously and has made a SHIT load of money. That way, maybe one day in the future, you might be walking into "The Dark Knight Returns" !!


Post Posted: July 29th 2008 9:00 am
 
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I hear ya man, but in my case I would have to leave my brain at the door. See besides the blinding desire to see a proper adaptation of DK Returns on screen, I've also been having these insanely clear visions of a Batman movie. I'm not even a big fan of Batman, but it's enough to drive me crazy. I feel like a monkey playing with fire and these movies are giving me blue balls.


Post Posted: July 29th 2008 10:44 am
 
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Reading through everybody's comments... I can't believe how much I missed and I've seen this thing four times already!

bearvomit wrote:
things to look for the next time you watch it:

- All the 2's everywhere. like the school bus number 22, Dent's coin is dated 1922,

- The man the Joker thinks reminds him of his father at Dents party is Senator Patrick Leahy

- The Joker says Dent is being held at 250 52nd street. 2 50/50 2nd street


This is the stuff that especially piqued my interest. I guess the number two being so prominent fits in with the idea of duality that runs throughout the film. Even Alfred is revealed to have a more gruesome background than perviously thought. And ofcourse the 50/50... "It can't hurt your chances."

Quote:
Just keep Joker out as a tribute to Heath. The end of the film should be the same as Begins with some indication that the Joker has escaped and Batman has now to go deal with him.


I think this is the way to go with The Joker in the next film. Make him more a presence that Batman has to deal with internally, psychologically than physically. How badass would it be to see a tracking shot of an empty street in Gotham, no activity whatsoever. All you hear is that laugh, all the while Batman stands watch atop a skyscrapper wondering where the hell he could be and just what will he do next.

Something that I've also been thinking about lately is the self-referential nature of the film. I know some here have brought up the various homages to past Batman films and comics that are throughout "The Dark Knight" and just as many have dismissed these moments as pure coincedence but I have a feeling there's more to this than the filmmakers are letting on. What Nolan's plan is I have no idea but something tells me it's no coincendence that Ledger's Joker antagonizes and later kills the Gambol character played by Michael Jai White who also starred in the big screen version of "Spawn." And lest we forget The Joker's line to Batman in the interrogation scene, "You complete me."


Post Posted: July 29th 2008 11:01 pm
 
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Did anyone else not realize that the driver of the truck that the Joker pushes out is dead?

Don't know why I didn't get that at the time.


Post Posted: July 30th 2008 9:11 am
 
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Benovite wrote:
I hear ya man, but in my case I would have to leave my brain at the door. See besides the blinding desire to see a proper adaptation of DK Returns on screen, I've also been having these insanely clear visions of a Batman movie. I'm not even a big fan of Batman, but it's enough to drive me crazy. I feel like a monkey playing with fire and these movies are giving me blue balls.


My brother is a huge fan of the Batman comics and this lived up to his vision of what a Batman should be. He has pretty high standards, take it for what its worth - I really think anyone hoping to see a darker Batman would be satisfied with The Dark Knight.

As for the hype you referenced in your previous post - this is one of the rare instances in which I think the hype is worth it. Bale is as good as they say he is, Ledger is as good as they say he and then some, Eckhart and Oldman are better than anyone is saying they are (not enough hype for those two).

If you consider this a 5 act movie (somewhat arbitrary, but thats how I'd break it down), I'd say the first 3 acts are pretty much perfect and as close you will get to perfect execution in a film of any genre that I've seen in a while. The last two acts don't come as effortlessly, but are worthwhile nonetheless. What results is a pretty damn good movie by any standards.


Post Posted: July 30th 2008 10:22 pm
 
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*I have trouble accessing imageshack so I can't post them with proper thumbnails. =(

Image

zip file


Post Posted: August 3rd 2008 8:50 pm
 
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I just got back from my third screening, this time in IMAX. Un. Fucking. Believable.


I took some broad I'm seeing to the movie with me. Highlight of the night: During the Joker/copycat murder tape I turned to her and whispered "this is eerily familiar to some of my sex tapes." Needless to say, I didn't get laid tonight.


Post Posted: August 3rd 2008 9:21 pm
 
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http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=47597

Quote:
It was touch and go for a day or so, but according to estimates, Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight (Warner Bros.) has won the weekend, narrowly defeating the third installment of the "Mummy" franchise, The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor (Universal) starring Brendan Fraser and Maria Bello.

Racking up its third weekend at #1, The Dark Knight added an estimated $43.8 million to its staggering $395 million take after just seventeen days, putting it in line to cross the $400 million mark tomorrow, the first movie to ever make that amount in just 18 days. (Shrek 2 was previously the fastest movie to hit $400 million, which it grossed in 43 days, so "Dark Knight" did the same two and a half times faster.) Currently, The Dark Knight is the eighth-highest grossing movie of all-time and Warner Bros.' top grossing movie, but by this time next weekend, it's likely to be the fifth or sixth highest grossing movie domestically as it starts targeting Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope and E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial. From there, it's only $70 million away from becoming only the second movie in over 80 years of filmmaking to gross $500 million domestically, not accounting for inflation.

Internationally, The Dark Knight added $37 million for a total of $202.5 million overseas and a worldwide total of $597.5 million.


Post Posted: August 3rd 2008 9:37 pm
 
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I'm gonna try my damnest to finally go see this film tomorrow (Monday). Hmmm with it making this much can we say that this film is gonna beat Titanic or come ultimately close?


Post Posted: August 3rd 2008 9:48 pm
 
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It's possible it may, but like Titanic it'll fall in line when adjusted for inflation.


Post Posted: August 4th 2008 6:57 am
 

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I still say too far away, but it is making crazy money. Probably more than anyone could have thought possible for a film so close to being Rated R. I think surpassing Star Wars is almost as big a feat as beating Titanic. And to pass $400 million in 18 or 19 days compared to the fastest all time of 43 is just amazing.

My estimate right now is another $125 million for a domestic take of $520 million.


Post Posted: August 4th 2008 8:27 am
 

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Does the gross include the increased cost of IMAX tickets? IMAX tix cost $14 at the local theater and all the IMAX showings keep selling out.


Post Posted: August 4th 2008 9:00 am
 
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Quote:
MZ has learned that Academy Award winning actor Morgan Freeman, 71, has been injured in a serious car accident in Mississippi.

Cops tell us the "Dark Knight" star was in a one car accident around 11:30 PM last night north of the small town of Ruleville. He was airlifted from the accident scene to a hospital in Memphis, Tenn. We're told alcohol is not suspected as a factor in the wreck, news of which was first reported by MediaTakeout.

Freeman's condition is unknown, but state troopers tell us he was talking at the scene before he was taken to the hospital. The condition of an unidentified female passenger in the car also is unknown.


sounds serious


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