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Post Posted: December 16th 2017 7:06 am
 

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I have absolutely nothing against building more political elements into it, in fact I’d welcome it, but it has to be done organically, as part of the narrative. Now one can argue that part of the narrative is all about these ‘grey areas’ in terms of what constitutes good and bad... but I just don’t think the sequels do it very well. There’s little point in trying to suggest to the audience that things aren’t black and white when the antagonists are presenented as such caricatures and the protagonists as heroic. I really wish I liked it more, I want to... but I can’t get past its basic flaws, specifically in relation to story and characterisation.


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 8:39 am
 
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In ROTS, Anakin/Vader literally quotes George W. Bush. You don't get more beaten over the head than that.

Not that there's anything wrong with it. I love a little social-political commentary in movies. Like Caesar in War for the Planet of the Apes: "Why do you need a wall?"


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 9:02 am
 

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Bandersnatch wrote:
In ROTS, Anakin/Vader literally quotes George W. Bush. You don't get more beaten over the head than that.

Not that there's anything wrong with it. I love a little social-political commentary in movies. Like Caesar in War for the Planet of the Apes: "Why do you need a wall?"


Agreed.


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 9:40 am
 
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Dammit, I had 24h to digest it after leaving the cinema colder than I could ever anticipate, and the more I dig in my own thought process as much as reading others reactions, the more I'm sure there is no turning back: this movie is plain bad, as much for the too numerous formal problems which a few nice things can't outdo, than at its very core, something is completely out of place and can't be spinned as "bold new take"... yes dammit, what a shameful mess, and judging from K.Kennedy self satisfaction all along in this -no trouble- production, from today I'm positive without caution anymore that she is actually shallow as f*** for real.

Maybe I'll elaborate further to chime in on constructive criticism, maybe not, as you guys have already made a lot of good points.

ps: what the hell are they smoking at these ecstatic premier events?


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 9:47 am
 

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Judging from fan reaction here and elsewhere, I’d say I’ve never exerprienced a film that both appeals massively to critics whilst turning off a huge section of the fan base. I literally don’t know a single person who rates it. Very odd times.


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 11:13 am
 
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Its a huge stretch to say that TLJ has a decidedly left pov. Rose simply states that rampant war profiteering is bad; especially when you make most of your money from murdering oppressive regimes like The First Order. What's so controversial about that?

I always felt that the "political" elements of the PT where the result of an over-interpretation of the films' themes. Lucas deconstruction of The Republic was based on historical precedents. Any early 21st century parallels were a product of coincident and the repetitive nature of humanity. (Plus, Bush did not originate the "with-us or against-us" world view. And, Anakin did not quote him word for word.)

Concerning the disparate reactions to TLJ, I think the range of opinions is due to the movie's complexity. TLJ wants to equally deconstruct and embrace Star Wars. Since I'm attached to all Star Wars elements that the movie subverts, it leaves me emotionally confused. For me, that's not a bad thing.


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 11:59 am
 

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The film shows both sides are working with bad people... I wish the average person understood that. no prob by me


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 1:05 pm
 
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E_CHU_TA! wrote:
Its a huge stretch to say that TLJ has a decidedly left pov. Rose simply states that rampant war profiteering is bad; especially when you make most of your money from murdering oppressive regimes like The First Order. What's so controversial about that?

I always felt that the "political" elements of the PT where the result of an over-interpretation of the films' themes. Lucas deconstruction of The Republic was based on historical precedents. Any early 21st century parallels were a product of coincident and the repetitive nature of humanity. (Plus, Bush did not originate the "with-us or against-us" world view. And, Anakin did not quote him word for word.)

Concerning the disparate reactions to TLJ, I think the range of opinions is due to the movie's complexity. TLJ wants to equally deconstruct and embrace Star Wars. Since I'm attached to all Star Wars elements that the movie subverts, it leaves me emotionally confused. For me, that's not a bad thing.



good points, just about that last bit: i do see the intention to deconstruct and embrass, I like the idea on principle, but frankly, I think it is just badly done... to subvert you need a solid, consistent understanding of your subject, and I don't feel they have it, not by a long shot. It ends up coming accross as confused, half-assed, sometimes silly rather than challenging..... and not to mention, it can't justify boring pointless sequences in the first half of the movie, some stuff were really out of place and felt very... amateurish. The thing is that it needed to be great as a dramatic 2nd part, and it's not even good. I really don't mean to be harsh with it but it's quite saddening.... they are supposed to have millions of means and what they want us to regard as world class artists and story-tellers, so it rings wrong to try to brighten up by picking a few little bits here and there that were done well, that should be a given.


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 1:06 pm
 

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E_CHU_TA! wrote:
Concerning the disparate reactions to TLJ, I think the range of opinions is due to the movie's complexity. TLJ wants to equally deconstruct and embrace Star Wars. Since I'm attached to all Star Wars elements that the movie subverts, it leaves me emotionally confused. For me, that's not a bad thing.


This is a terrific observation. Do we want the same thing (and hopefully feel like a kid again), or as maturing adults do we want something different? Do we actually know what we want? I know that personally I oscillate.

Where TFA was derivative, TLJ is trying to break with past SW traditions. The death of Snoke, breaking the usual 3-film villain story, really highlights this. You can't follow tradition and develop fresh new ideas too. So we're left stuck between worrying that Rian Johnson's AT-M6 designs add nothing to the ESB AT-ATs, and wondering why there's a new character like Rose in this film.

I agree with people's comments about pacing and length - for me the Laura Dern / Holdo story and the Canto Bight sequence weren't sufficiently considered/developed/edited to avoid slowing the film down. However some of the fundamental ideas (Luke's progress from hermit to force transcendence), and the developing complex relationship between Kylo and Rey add a satisfying richness I wasn't expecting, and hadn't really dared hope for. And even the Porgs injected some fun without being ewok-kitsch.

It's odd no-one's criticised the Kylo/Rey/Guards fight yet. This was the one moment that really pulled me out of the film and I wondered if I'd just entered a Marvel or DC Comics movie. Eye candy sure, but just who are the guards and why are they fighting...? (rhetorical)

I'm sad to read that some long-time posters here (Duke, Topeka) had such a bad reaction to this film. I'd really like to hear more about why you guys see this as farce. And DP, if you're out there and reading, what did you make of it?


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 2:52 pm
 
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I've been processing my thoughts since Thursday and there's a lot I agree with that has already been written. I'm seeing it a second time tonight, so I want to really let it soak in before letting loose.


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 4:42 pm
 
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Somebody refresh my memory. Did anybody say "I have a bad feeling about this" in this movie?


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 4:46 pm
 

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I didn't hear it, and a quick review of DP's subtitles post confirms no


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 4:47 pm
 

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BB-8...


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 4:50 pm
 

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Had my first screening last night with a packed enthusiastic crowd, for the most part un-spoiled except for whispers here and there of major characters dying. My father just passed away in October, so I thought it might be an especially emotional Star Wars film for me. I got through TLJ without shedding a tear, so I think emotionally it's really far away from the sentimental Star Wars that I'm used to, that even JJ Abrams understood.

As the movie went on it was apparent that Rian Johnson takes great pleasure in jumping up and down on our sacred cows. It has the benefit of being not what you expected but at the expense of these films being cohesive operatic stanzas.

I love Star Wars, and I did enjoy TLJ. The crowd I saw it with loved it. Even with it's flaws it is still a very well made Star Wars film, even if I didn't agree with some of the creative choices. The Luke backstory with Ben was great as well as Lukes arc, the Rey/Kylo interaction, I even liked the rose/finn storyline. The complexity of this film gives it a richness that the other films don't have. There's some good themes in TLJ, and it did feel like Star Wars during most of the movie. I just think Rian has some directing/writing blind spots when it comes to Star Wars that resulted in something less than ideal. I'm really surprised they're going to give him a whole trilogy. I can understand the outrage that some are feeling at TLJ.

I'm still digesting the soundtrack (I love John Williams, I think he's doing a fine job at his age). I especially liked the ANH tie fighter callback, and his use of Rey & Kylo's theme sprinkled throughout the movie. Need to listen to it more and process the new music.

All in all I'm happy were still getting Star Wars movies and that the people who make them still care. But this one really could be interpreted as middle finger to some fans and conspiracy theorists.


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 8:06 pm
 

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Bandersnatch wrote:
In ROTS, Anakin/Vader literally quotes George W. Bush. You don't get more beaten over the head than that.

Not that there's anything wrong with it. I love a little social-political commentary in movies. Like Caesar in War for the Planet of the Apes: "Why do you need a wall?"


I feel like the political story of Episode III was ironic that things took that turn, as, I came out in '99, well before Bush. I was okay for that line, and as a kid voted for Bush (I was 18); it did make me re-evaluate my world view when I saw fantasy clash with what my reality in my idea of the world was. But ROTS doesn't push a political agenda and it doesn't preach. This film does and whatever, but it's like that was Rose's only purpose in the film and they have to have both the minorities take that side mission just to point these things out? Sorry but that in itself is kinda racist. But then again we're in a day and age where everyone's a racist..

I mean I'm glad there are people out there who enjoyed the film, I just wasn't one of them, and the politics thing isn't even the reason why. I just wish that had a little more tact to it. You refer to one line. Rose repeats the same thing like five damn times.


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 8:33 pm
 
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Inc wrote:
I didn't hear it, and a quick review of DP's subtitles post confirms no

LOL. The first film without the "bad feeling" line. I completely missed this. This intentional omission says a lot.

Another bit a shrewd irreverence is Luke's initial lightsaber toss. In one way, it completely undercuts the entire trajectory of TFA in a few seconds. On another level, it echoes Luke's iconic toss in ROTJ. In the TJL, Luke's toss may be the most callous and un-heroic act he has ever done while the his toss in ROTJ is his most compassionate and heroic act. Interesting.

Altogether, I've a had a little more time to process the film's themes. With the PT/OT, the end message was Luke's faith coupled with Vader's self-sacrifice ultimate redemption. Here, Johnson uses Leia and Rose to say that sacrifice is not the best and only outcome. I find this approach to be challenging in a good way. Of course, Luke ultimately plays the part of sacrificial hero. So, maybe Johnson realizes that this concept is not something to be completely abandoned.

Conversely, I find Johnson's approach to Kylo Ren's fate to be a sad and potentially harmful. In the movie, Rey's misguided leap of faith couples with Luke and Leia's resignation that Ben Solo is no more. In Star Wars or otherwise, I don't want to believe that Vader's change-of-heart is a rarity. Sure, it would be conventional to have Ben turn to the light as Rey hopes. But, I would rather have that message then one, which resigns itself to a loss of faith in the most emotionally conflicted among humanity. Hopefully, there will be an intelligent and emotionally satisfying end for Ben Solo in Episode 9. Otherwise, the ST is just pedaling cynicism, which is generally the opposite of what mythology tries to accomplish.

Upon reflection, I have a couple story questions as well. For one, is Luke's ruined temple on Yavin? Secondly, do Luke's 12 former disciples become the Knights of Ren? If not, what's their deal?

ki adi moonshine wrote:
This film does and whatever, but it's like that was Rose's only purpose in the film and they have to have both the minorities take that side mission just to point these things out? Sorry but that in itself is kinda racist. But then again we're in a day and age where everyone's a racist.

I mean I'm glad there are people out there who enjoyed the film, I just wasn't one of them, and the politics thing isn't even the reason why. I just wish that had a little more tact to it. You refer to one line. Rose repeats the same thing like five damn times.

Ugh. It's definitely not like Finn and Rose's only purpose in the movie is not to take a side mission to Cato Bight. They have a their own stories to tell.

It is only one line / exchange, and not five:
The Last Jedi wrote:
Look, this whole place is beautiful.

I mean, come on.

Why do you hate it so much?

Look closer.

My sister and I grew up in a poor mining system.

The First Order stripped our ore to finance their military then shelled us to test their weapons.

They took everything we had.

And who do you think these people are?

There's only one business in the galaxy that'll get you this rich.

War.

Selling weapons to the First Order.

I wish I could put my fist through this whole lousy, beautiful town.


What's so morally horrible about the above statements?


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 8:42 pm
 
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Are/were the Preatorian Guards the Knights of Ren? :o


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 9:03 pm
 
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Good question. I hope not, because the Preatorian Guard suck at their job. Their fight sequence with Ren and Rey was a zero-drama time waster. I wish they would have gotten the same brief take-down that Yoda gave to the Royal Guards in ROTS.


Post Posted: December 17th 2017 10:27 am
 
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Quote:
Somebody refresh my memory. Did anybody say "I have a bad feeling about this" in this movie?


Hokusai wrote:
BB-8...


:lol: That would be awesome if true.


Post Posted: December 17th 2017 10:32 am
 
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E_CHU_TA! wrote:
Good question. I hope not, because the Preatorian Guard suck at their job. Their fight sequence with Ren and Rey was a zero-drama time waster. I wish they would have gotten the same brief take-down that Yoda gave to the Royal Guards in ROTS.


I loved the fight, but yeah it could have be cut back a bit. I lost track of how many Guards there were.
Did some of them evaporate after they were killed? There were burning red robes on the ground, but also bits of armor and helmets strewn about after the fight.

I really need to see this again. I'm ready for the Blu Ray, extras and deleted scenes. :monocles:


Post Posted: December 17th 2017 12:32 pm
 
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...................

.......

... dammit, I'm all Kylo'ed on this one

so I just rewatched it over 2 days in crappy cam internet version.

To say the least I had better perspective than in front of giant 3d screen.... and ugh... actually stuff I found really terrible and poor on first viewing I thought this time they were great if not fucking brilliant, in this observation of both twisting/crushing and embracing the saga's myths, in the idea of generational passing on, to which Yoda's scene is central. There is a part of me saying all this is actually... pretty excellent. Puzzling.

For sure I still think stuff like space Leia are bad taste in execution.... but there are those moments in each of the films for me. For instance I can't argue against someone who despise the cheesiness of Anakin-Padmé scenes, but I have shameless appreciation for all those scenes in what I see they bring to the bigger picture and that's part of why I love the prequels.

I'll write more later, but it's going to be interesting..........

The modern dialogue style and tone can quite bug me at times, but they are going with this contemporary style since TFA, they chose it to define this era 30 years after ROTJ just like the prequels have a different tone, and while it's not always my cup of tea it arguably makes sense as a creative choice for this piece of popular culture.


Post Posted: December 17th 2017 1:38 pm
 
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Bandersnatch wrote:
Quote:
Somebody refresh my memory. Did anybody say "I have a bad feeling about this" in this movie?


Hokusai wrote:
BB-8...


:lol: That would be awesome if true.


Rian Johnson confirmed it was BB-8 during the opening space battle. Originally he was going to have Poe say "No, I have a good feeling about this" in response but decided that was too on-the-nose. Apparently he didn't go through the rest of his film with such a fine tooth comb.


Post Posted: December 17th 2017 2:04 pm
 
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MannyOrtez wrote:

Rian Johnson confirmed it was BB-8 during the opening space battle.


Cool. Thanks, I didn't realize that.


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 9:43 am
 
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Took in a second viewing yesterday. Some completely random thoughts/observations:

I hated the broom kid scene at first. Now, I'm understanding it so much better. Normal Star Wars movies would have ended on that pull-back shot of the group on the Millennium Falcon. But the broom kid scene contains so much meaning...it speaks to the wonder and dream we all had as kids watching the original trilogy. It speaks to the role Luke Skywalker has in the galaxy after death. I also have to think that kid will pop up in a future film. It also calls back to the spirit of ANH, in that anyone can be a Jedi. During ANH, we had no idea of Luke's parentage, yet we accepted the special abilities that were within him. Rey's path, now that we've established her parents are nobody special, reflects this, as does the broom kid.

The biggest disappointment for me, and this breaks my heart to say so, is the soundtrack. I counted one new theme, and that was for Rose, a character I didn't find particularly compelling or interesting. The OST didn't contain some of the better musical moments from the film, especially on Crait and in the Rey-Ren-guards duel. Hopefully we'll get new material in a For Your Consideration release. Rogue One's soundtrack was more rich, had more new themes and had more variety to it.

The entire Crait sequence is so heavy with stunning visuals and drama. Breathtaking in every way.

In the post-prequel films, is this the smallest role Chewbacca has played? I thought he and Finn had some buddy team-up potential in TFA. If there was a way to get Chewie back with the Resistance, he could easily have filled the role of Rose.

I have no idea where Ep. 9 will or could go. Biggest factor will be, is there any kind of time jump from the end of TLJ? I feel like there has to be for two reasons: 1. to build up the reborn Rebellion to be a force big enough to credibly battle the First Order and 2. to deal with the death of Leia/Carrie Fisher. Let's say there is 3-year time jump...I can see Ep. 9 opening with Leia's funeral. That could be a galvanizing event for the new Rebellion as it heads towards a final confrontation with the First Order. It can also deal with Fisher's passing in as natural way possible. Just throwing my theories out there.

But Rian Johnson has provided us a challenging, complex and worthy addition to the saga.


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 10:11 am
 

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If it doesnt begin with Leias funeral mirroring Padmes... it will be a missed opportunity.

Speaking of missed opportunity... I saw this quote in a review... this sums up the movie for me.

Quote:
There is a visually stunning moment where Laura Dern’s lavender-haired Admiral, the worst Star Wars character of all time, stays behind and sacrifices herself in a kamikaze hyper-speed jump into the First Order command ship. It was a moment that could have held real gravitas — weren’t it that noone gives a shit about Admiral Holdo. Meanwhile, off-screen, goddamn Admiral Ackbar is killed with barely a cursory mention in a line of dialogue. If that doesn’t sum up the entire mindset of the film then I don’t know what does.


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 11:18 am
 
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Holdo is worse than Jar Jar? :|

I agree, having Ackbar sacrifice himself would have been great. Keep Holdo around for the next movie. I didn't think she was that bad. It seems that for every one of these movies, somebody has to say "omg worst character evar!"


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 11:43 am
 

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The ackbar quote is my main point... I dont "worse character" judge.


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 1:29 pm
 

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royalguard96 wrote:
I hated the broom kid scene at first. Now, I'm understanding it so much better. Normal Star Wars movies would have ended on that pull-back shot of the group on the Millennium Falcon. But the broom kid scene contains so much meaning...it speaks to the wonder and dream we all had as kids watching the original trilogy. It speaks to the role Luke Skywalker has in the galaxy after death. I also have to think that kid will pop up in a future film. It also calls back to the spirit of ANH, in that anyone can be a Jedi. During ANH, we had no idea of Luke's parentage, yet we accepted the special abilities that were within him. Rey's path, now that we've established her parents are nobody special, reflects this, as does the broom kid.

Whilst I didn’t have an issue with the scene, in and of itself, I thought it was completely out of context as the coda to the 2nd instalment of a new trilogy. I get that they want to open up the universe, and yes I suspect it will have some connection to Johnson’s next SW venture, but it just felt way too Marvel like and cynical to me. Even Luke and Anakin couldn’t force move stuff (or weren’t shown to) at young ages, their abilities were much more subtle, but similar to Rey’s superpowers, the new writers seem obsessed with oneupmanship of power.

royalguard96 wrote:
The biggest disappointment for me, and this breaks my heart to say so, is the soundtrack. I counted one new theme, and that was for Rose, a character I didn't find particularly compelling or interesting. The OST didn't contain some of the better musical moments from the film, especially on Crait and in the Rey-Ren-guards duel. Hopefully we'll get new material in a For Your Consideration release. Rogue One's soundtrack was more rich, had more new themes and had more variety to it.

Sadly, I have to agree. I didn’t think the OST for TFA was one of Williams best, but his score for TLJ seems so pedestrian in comparison.


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 1:33 pm
 
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Admiral Holdo is definitely up there for worst characters in the saga thanks to some shitty writing but also some surprising awful acting by Laura Dern. That said, she also has the poor fortune of landing in the worst written act in SW history. The entire mutiny plot belongs in the middle of a bad season of 24. It required a leader in a coma, key characters not talking to one another and arbitrarily not trusting each other, and bad guys content to let the good guys run out of gas. You literally can't make up shit more ridiculous than that. Other than packing in more tired tropes than I thought humanly possible, I don't know what that 2nd act accomplished.


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I’m pretty sure that if Johnson had their time again, it would have been Leia who made that sacrifice. As it stands, it’s a poorly conceived plot point. Are we to assume that the technique of flying a ship at light speed would work against any super weapon e.g Death Star, Starkiller? If only they’d known...


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 2:07 pm
 
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I think I finally understand how prequel haters felt about people like me who didn’t mind the prequels – I feel myself getting frustrated when I read rave reviews about this movie now.

Having digested the film a bit more, there are some more points that are bothering me:

-The majority of Resistance/Rebel deaths could have been averted if Admiral Holdo had just told Poe that she had a plan. She didn’t even need to tell him what the plan was, just that there was a plan. The mark of a good leader is managing the people you lead, and she failed at that spectacularly.

-I think this is the first time that I’ve ever seen a character arc do a 180. Kylo Ren didn’t have a character arc, he had a character circle. He ended the movie at the exact same place that he began – as an evil, one-dimensional and irredeemable villain. Right up to the end of the Rey/Kylo vs. Praetorian Guard fight, I had such hopes for Kylo – they basically set him up as a much more sympathetic character than I was expecting. If you really need to double down on evil Kylo, then how innovative and risk-taking would it have been if, unlike in ESTB, Rey had accepted his outstretched hand to join her? Nope, can’t give Rey any actual character development, can we?

-Luke Skywalker. Again, I do not understand how so many people seem fine with how they portrayed Luke in this film. I’m going to quote another post I saw on this that articulates my feelings a lot better than I can do:

“the original Star Wars films were about victorious hope, the unity that binds us all and overcoming the evil inside yourself. Luke Skywalker is the embodiment of a character archetype that is as old as storytelling itself. He rises from nothing, pursues knowledge and enlightenment, overcomes despair, becomes a saviour and, through courage and determination, redeems the sins of the ones who came before him. His purpose as a character and as an icon is to personify everything a person should hope to become.

In the Last Jedi, Luke Skywalker contemplates murdering his sister’s and best friend’s son in his sleep, cries in a cave for a few decades while the world around him crumbles, gets lectured by a teenager about responsibility and then dies nonsensically. Knowing that, go look at every other plot point and twist in this movie. This film’s sole purpose isn’t to push things forward or build upon anything. It is reckless subversion for the sake of subversion. It is deconstruction with no meaning or purpose. It is a cynically assembled soapbox, made by people so arrogant and unappreciative that they would stand atop the legacy of one of film’s most quintessential stories just to make a short-sighted point about “leaving the past behind” while tossing some hamfisted political notes at the captive audience.”


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 3:20 pm
 
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Doctor When wrote:
I’m pretty sure that if Johnson had their time again, it would have been Leia who made that sacrifice. As it stands, it’s a poorly conceived plot point. Are we to assume that the technique of flying a ship at light speed would work against any super weapon e.g Death Star, Starkiller? If only they’d known...


Like much of the film, it's visually spectacular, but makes no sense.

Image

It's also unimaginable that a civilization that has achieved lightspeed travel requires its vessels to be manned. That's insane. But yes, if we're going with that, Leia should've made the sacrifice. They could've easily stitched together some of her performance + some wide shots of CGI Leia to pull that off. Rian Johnson was too busy not giving AF about Ep 9 to think this one through.


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 6:07 pm
 

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I've seen the film twice now; first time I was in shock, second I was able to deconstruct it a little more and started to notice it's flaws.
Why introduce a new character like Admiral Holdo? Someone we have absolutely no emotional connection to, only to kill her off in such a magnificent way?
Why does a much beloved legacy character, such as Admiral Ackbar - get an off-screen death?
Wouldn't it have made more sense, for Ackbar (or Leia) to have made that sacrifice instead of Miss Feminazi-Purple Hair? Who looks like an extra that wondered onto the wrong set. She's in the middle of a war, but she has time to dye her hair and gallivant around the place in her fucking evening wear, like she's on her way to the opera.

Canto Bight had so much potential but was executed in the worst possible way. It was far too long and felt horribly out of place in a Star Wars film.
There are no more classic aliens populating the background of any scene. I don't remember seeing any Rodians, Ithorians, Ishi Tibb, Quarren, Togruta, Twi'lek or Hutts in either VII, or VIII. Shouldn't they be mixing the old with the new aliens

Can someone explain to me how DJ knew of Holdo's plan? Did I miss something?

Another thing that I find annoying, is that they continually use similar color palettes for the Resistance, Maz's Castle Patrons and Canto Bight patrons as well - Baby Shit Brown/Yellow. It's ugly

Image


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 8:45 pm
 
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Saw the film yesterday (It was my birthday.) The captioning system broke down (it was at a movie tavern) twice and they ended up giving us our money back and got a free ticket for whenever I go back there.

That being said, I really liked the film.


Pros:

  • Great set designs
  • The final battle with the First Order AT-ATs was beautifully done.
  • The interactions between Rey and Luke was fun to watch. When Luke tossed his lightsaber over the cliff. It showed me that Luke was fed up with the Force. The Sith. The Jedi. He had enough of it all because he was tired of the constant conflict between the Dark and the Light. At the same time you can see he had some guilt in him over the whole Ben Solo thing.
  • The Casino set is beautiful.
  • The broom kid could be another Skywalker we don't know about. After all Kathleen Kennedy insists that the Saga will always start with a Skywalker and end with a Skywalker.
  • Rose is this Trilogy's Lando. She's that new hero they introduce in the middle act.
  • The Kylo/Rey battle was great
  • Same with Luke's "battle" with Kylo
  • I'm glad that the Death Star did not make an appearance. I'm looking at you guys who went "Omgz there's gonna be a Death Star just because a toy packaging sez so!!!11111"

Now the cons:

  • When the Leia Poppins scene came on. I was like WTF? She was clearly killed in the scene yet her body is STILL intact. That beats logic. Or any scientific theory.
  • The Casino scene reminds me A LOT of the shady bar from AOTC. Don't forget in the AOTC bar, there was gambling there coupled with shady characters. So it was just another case of "it's like poetry." I could live without Rose's and DJ's lectures about war profiteering since we've seen this being explored in AOTC and Rebels, though.
  • I wanted to know more about Snoke (Is he a Prequel character? Somebody that knew Sidious?) But No, what Johnson did was just straight up off him and the Praetorian Guards. These Guards was supposed to be the next gen version of the Imperial Guards but in matter of few minutes, Kylo made them his bitches. All the marketing and promotion of the Praetorian Guards and they're offed right away. As I remarked to my brother after the showing, "I'm glad I got the TLJ collectible glass (The glass only had the TLJ and Coke logos) instead of the TLJ Tumbler cup that our friend got because a)It looks a Starbucks cup b) It has characters stamped on it that no one gives a shit about especially now that Kylo killed them in few minutes." My brother laughed and agreed.
  • Holdo is effectively the new Darth Maul in the sense that they killed her off in one movie instead of having her serve a purpose. She could have taken over from Leia and set up a more stronger Rebel leadership in 9.
  • The comedy slapstick bits wth Chewie was unnecessary. Why couldn't they have Chewie go with Finn and Rose? Or replace the Casino subplot with a side mission involving Chewie?
  • I don't like how they skirted around the issue of Rey's parentage. Luke did seem like he knew more about her parentage than Kylo did. Kylo could have been lying to her for all I know. That's what any Dark side users do right? They lie.
  • The CG Yoda was horseshit. It made me feel like, "They pulled this from a Gamecube/PS2 game?" That's how bad the CG was.

That being said, the movie is one of the stronger films in the Saga. I personally think it's what we needed after the letdown that was TFA. I look forward to either going back for a second viewing or wait for the eventual Blu-Ray release with better captioning. This film isn't enough to make me want to walk away from Star Wars as a whole. I only have that concern of Abrams potentially turning 9 into a remake of ROTJ.


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 8:49 pm
 
OBGYN
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Mike_Droideka- What makes you think that DJ knew of Holdo's plan?


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 9:21 pm
 
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DJ over hears the Poe / Finn exchange. Finn even tries to cover it up.


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 10:24 pm
 

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Thanks SI.
I'm going to go see the film again this weekend with some friends, who are yet to see it

I thought LFL/Disney said that they wanted to make these new films, for the fans.
Rian Johnson, is saying that he didn't write this movie for the fans.
So, which is it?


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 10:50 pm
 
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Saw it again tonight. I did like it better, for sure. Review is pretty simple:

Act 1: Great start!
Act 2: Complete clusterfuck.
Act 3: Epic.

All in all, I'll take it, I guess. I'll bump it up a notch in my series rankings, somewhere closer to the TFA, Rogue One grouping, ahead of the AOTC/TPM grouping. Rian Johnson had a lot of great ideas and nice themes. He beat a couple to death, and he derailed the middle act to introduce some of them. But the final act is fantastic and a visual treat.


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 1:11 am
 

Join: December 24th 2015 5:26 am
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I’ve been trying to think what the experience of watching TLJ reminded me of, and I now remember. It felt exactly like watching Alien Resurection for the first time... where I didn’t know wether to laugh or cry... and where I wasn’t sure if I was watching something serious or something that was meant as a parody. It looked great, but boy was it missing somethimg fundamental.


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 3:04 am
 

Join: December 18th 2015 7:49 pm
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There was so much potential for lore building in this movie. He's at the first jedi temple ffs. More of how Luke is feeling could and should have been explained. He says there's incredible darkness in Ben, yet we see him legit refuse to kill his mother. At least delve deeper into this darkness. Luke could turn Vader, what is it about Ren that can't be? We got no info.

I wouldn't have minded if we got massive changes and it seemed like the film wanted to flip things on its head, but only did so half way and the writing just didn't do it. Ultimately this should have been Luke going full on grey jedi. Also, refusing to give us an answer on snoke is nonsense.

http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/17/star-wa ... heories/2/


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 5:19 am
 
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I always hate it when people write bad things about stuff I love, now I'm going to do it myself...

When I left the theater, I felt like, multiply the Boba Fett in the Sarlacc Pit scene a thousand times.

Rian Johnson's movie Looper was excellent and the fact that Disney gave him a go-ahead to write an all new Star Wars Trilogy - even before anyone saw his Last Jedi - made me expect so much of this! Bummer...

To me, the best thing in Star Wars are the villains, the Dark Side. The First Order? A bunch of doucebags... Spaceballs!! (With one exception, Snoke)

I think we did have a potentially great Villain with Snoke, so much power and wisdom, so mysterious. I red so many great theories about him (Plagueis, or a Force Drainer, ...) , they've build up something, you feel a great climax coming and then they screw it up completely! Star Wars in good hands? LOL! At least The Force Awakens was a good copy... This movie didn't feel that Dark at all.

What the hell is episode 9 going to be about? The Galaxy looks so small now? The Rebellion / First Order have like 5 ships left, We've got two force wielding rookies, no decent Villain, I honestly don't know what to look forward to. What's the point of introducing a new and powerfull villain in the next movie (which it needs) if we won't be able to enjoy him long, so why love him.

If I would have written The Last Jedi, I would have Luke coming in to save the day when Snoke is about to destroy Rey in his Throne Room, Snoke defeats Luke - after the most epic lightsaber battle in history, Rey escapes, Snoke drains the life out of Luke and is young again, no longer deformed - maybe someone we know. Kylo turns to the Light and teams up with Rey, and they both face Snoke in the final film.

Now I think about it, the best things in this movie are the Porgs... and that drunken little guy in the Casino! I hope I feel different about it in a few days...


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 7:58 am
 
OBGYN
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SI wrote:
DJ over hears the Poe / Finn exchange. Finn even tries to cover it up.


Ah! Yes, right you are. Thanks.


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 8:53 am
 
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royalguard96 wrote:
Her endgame of sacrificing herself and her ship could have been performed by anyone. There was nothing about her character that deemed it *had* to be her. Any random Resistance fighter could have done the same, and the act of heroism wouldn't have been diminished in any way.



Bandersnatch wrote:
I think I would have been ok with Leia doing that instead of Holdo.


Absolutely.

Would've been an act fitting to the level of heroism Leia always had shown she had.

However perhaps this doesn't work for the overall story arc that will be made and explained out in IX for Leia so they let Holdo go out in the blaze of glory.


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 10:22 am
 
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Post Posted: December 19th 2017 1:58 pm
 

Join: December 24th 2015 5:26 am
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prox wrote:
There was so much potential for lore building in this movie. He's at the first jedi temple ffs. More of how Luke is feeling could and should have been explained. He says there's incredible darkness in Ben, yet we see him legit refuse to kill his mother. At least delve deeper into this darkness. Luke could turn Vader, what is it about Ren that can't be? We got no info.

I wouldn't have minded if we got massive changes and it seemed like the film wanted to flip things on its head, but only did so half way and the writing just didn't do it. Ultimately this should have been Luke going full on grey jedi. Also, refusing to give us an answer on snoke is nonsense.

http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/17/star-wa ... heories/2/

Worse still is that we are led to believe, during the events of TFA, that Han Solo too just gave up on his son... and it was only by chance he happened upon him on Starkiller Base. So in effect, we have both Han and Luke with the attitude of “fuck him, fuck them all”... Now I don’t have any problem with subverting characters and audience expectations, but the point is that it’s so amateurishly handled. There’s absolutely no narrative reason established, of any substance, why both Han and Luke just write off Ben Solo and drop out of society. It’s simply shoe horned in there, not to create real drama or a compelling narrative, but simply to reset the universe so we can have ‘smuggler’ Han Solo and Luke conforming to the original Obi-Wan/Yoda hermit stereotype. The filmmakers believe it’s clever, but it’s just utterly vacuous. Vacuous characterisation and storytelling.


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 3:51 pm
 

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If im neglecting my children, its because im busting my ass to provide shelter and such... Im not convinced Han needed to be out there making a buck shipping for gangsters...


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 10:27 pm
 
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I'm warming to it after being left a bit cold initially and I've still only seen it once. But a similar situation occurred with AOTC for me where I thought it was the worst Star Wars I'd seen and it's now - will ya look at that - my favorite episode.

If Episode 9 has a big role for the Canto Bight youth then my most major issue with the film, its ending, will be nullified. The idea of setting up a separate story (for that reported Johnson-led, new trilogy perhaps?) through such an ending in a middle film struck me as quite odd and a serious breaking of the Star Wars mold. Eh, but maybe that's the point and I'm just clinging desperately to the past, expectations, etc.

And, oh man, did I want to see Hayden Christensen and a CG-recreated Alex Guinness show up as a Force ghosts. That would have been the icing on the fucking cake! :bouncin:


Post Posted: December 20th 2017 12:16 pm
 
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Has there been any explanation in any of the non-movie materials as to why Anakin's ghost hasn't appeared before Kylo?


Post Posted: December 20th 2017 1:07 pm
 
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Monari wrote:
Has there been any explanation in any of the non-movie materials as to why Anakin's ghost hasn't appeared before Kylo?


It would be cool to find out in 9 that Anakin's spirit has been exiled to Endor; that he can't find a way for his spirit to leave where he became one with the Force. As if the Force is punishing him for his deeds.

Then part of the plot of 9 could be Kylo obsessed with finding the spirit of Darth Vader only to be disappointed in what he finds on a peaceful forest moon: Not the spirit of an evil, scary super-villain but the trapped soul of a regretful fallen hero.


Post Posted: December 20th 2017 3:43 pm
 

Join: December 24th 2015 5:26 am
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It’s officially divisive... ;)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42424445#


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