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Post Posted: December 19th 2017 3:08 am
 

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:potty:
This is pretty dumb imo. http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/17/star-wa ... heories/2/

Quote:
As for Snoke’s history, we don’t know much. But Johnson says fans of the original trilogy also knew next to nothing about the history of Emperor Palpatine.

While Serkis, who performs Snoke through motion capture, says he believes the villain’s injuries (and bitterness) stem from a long-ago conflict with the new Republic, we will have to wait for another story to explore that origin.

“I do think it’s interesting,” Johnson said. “I never want to poo-poo the fans coming up with theories. It’s part of the fun of being a Star Wars fan. If there is a place for it in another story, I hope it gets told.”

Telling it himself in The Last Jedi would have felt like he was shoehorning information on the audience that would have become a distraction. “It would have stopped any of these scenes dead cold if he had stopped and given a 30-second speech about how he’s Darth Plagueis,” Johnson said. “It doesn’t matter to Rey. If he had done that, Rey would have blinked and said, ‘Who?’ And the scene would have gone on.”

Before moving on himself, Johnson quickly added, “And I’m not saying he’s Darth Plagueis!”


We didn't need to know anything about the emperor's history back when the OG trilogy came out. That's what defenders of this movie and Rian don't understand. With Snoke, we needed some exposition. Also, he talks about shoehorning, yet Phasma and Maz were shoehorned in, so....


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 7:56 am
 
OBGYN
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It wouldn't take a 30 second speech to tell us who or what Snoke is and/or where he came from. One brief line of dialogue could do it, and would add maybe 10 seconds to the entire film.

And now we do know about the Emperor's past. We don't have a trilogy of films outlining Snoke's background. Unless that's what RJ's new mystery trilogy is about. :monocles:


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 9:51 am
 

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Star Wars fans are harder to please than a bunch of wine connoisseurs at a Kool-Aid convention.


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 12:04 pm
 
OBGYN
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:lol:


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 12:20 pm
 
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Johnson comparing backstories of Snoke and Palpatine disregards one key element:

In the OT, Palpatine was the head of the galaxy's established government, the one that was already in power when we picked up the story. Us as consumers accepted this fact and proceeded forward, because there inherently wasn't much explaining to do. He was in charge, the end.

The gaalxy's political makeup is more complicated as we begin TFA. We have the New Republic, and we have the First Order. We also come into the ST story with the understanding that the leaders of the Empire perished in ROJ and the Empire was left in tatters. So the natural question to ask is, who is the First Order, who's in charge, and how does that group exist within the New Republic?

This is part of my problem with the entire premise of the ST to begin with. ROJ had such a fairy tale happy ending, how do you continue that story in a necessary and compelling way? ROJ almost did too good of a job of tying up all the loose ends to keep that particular story going. If a "new Empire" arose (First Order) and someone was in charge of that group, how that person came to power is a necessary story to tell in order for a ST to have relevance, given what's come before it. Who Snoke is matters in the big picture, and Johnson/LFL decided it just didn't matter. I'm sorry, but this is a disservice to the integrity of the story (forget the fans for a moment). The story loses its punch when you remove any references to how the important characters came to be. We knew Palpatine was powerful because of Vader's deference to him in ESB, so when he directly enters the story in ROJ, we know what a big threat he is to Luke and the rebels. The story construction is logical in that case.

When you combine TFA and TLJ, Snoke is rendered more or less pointless, because it is Kylo Ren who Hux refers to as "Supreme Leader" in TLJ's final scenes on Crait. So the First Order had, and still has a supreme leader, but it's a different person in one film than the next. If we know how Snoke became the supreme leader, it would make the transition of that title to Ren more important. The way Snoke, in the big picture, has been handled, it screams lazy and/or sloppy storytelling, which is something you're bound to get when you have more than one filmmaker attempting to weave these stories together. There are examples of this in TFA too.

Look, I love and accept Star Wars for what it is. I especially love the prequels, but that doesn't mean I don't acknowledge its flaws, or ways it could be better (make the Trade Federation a more deadly threat, put Dooku in TPM, Grievous in AOTC). Many prequel haters say they don't like it because it didn't match their specific vision for Ep. 1-3. Now, I love Luke's characterization in TLJ. Spot-on perfect. But I would have changed other elements of TLJ, had I been in control. But I don't dwell on that either. I accept it as part of the larger story and move on.


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 1:46 pm
 

Join: December 24th 2015 5:26 am
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It’s the modern phenomena of trying to create faux mystery. Mystery should be grown organically from the story, events and situations. But no... let’s not create mystery that way, lets just shoe horn in and work backwards. It’s basically because a generation of filmmakers, who grew up on 80’s films/MTV, want to replicate the films of their youth without actually doing the hard work.


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 10:32 pm
 
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royalguard96 wrote:
Johnson comparing backstories of Snoke and Palpatine disregards one key element:

In the OT, Palpatine was the head of the galaxy's established government, the one that was already in power when we picked up the story. Us as consumers accepted this fact and proceeded forward, because there inherently wasn't much explaining to do. He was in charge, the end.

The gaalxy's political makeup is more complicated as we begin TFA. We have the New Republic, and we have the First Order. We also come into the ST story with the understanding that the leaders of the Empire perished in ROJ and the Empire was left in tatters. So the natural question to ask is, who is the First Order, who's in charge, and how does that group exist within the New Republic?

This is part of my problem with the entire premise of the ST to begin with. ROJ had such a fairy tale happy ending, how do you continue that story in a necessary and compelling way? ROJ almost did too good of a job of tying up all the loose ends to keep that particular story going. If a "new Empire" arose (First Order) and someone was in charge of that group, how that person came to power is a necessary story to tell in order for a ST to have relevance, given what's come before it. Who Snoke is matters in the big picture, and Johnson/LFL decided it just didn't matter. I'm sorry, but this is a disservice to the integrity of the story (forget the fans for a moment). The story loses its punch when you remove any references to how the important characters came to be. We knew Palpatine was powerful because of Vader's deference to him in ESB, so when he directly enters the story in ROJ, we know what a big threat he is to Luke and the rebels. The story construction is logical in that case.

When you combine TFA and TLJ, Snoke is rendered more or less pointless, because it is Kylo Ren who Hux refers to as "Supreme Leader" in TLJ's final scenes on Crait. So the First Order had, and still has a supreme leader, but it's a different person in one film than the next. If we know how Snoke became the supreme leader, it would make the transition of that title to Ren more important. The way Snoke, in the big picture, has been handled, it screams lazy and/or sloppy storytelling, which is something you're bound to get when you have more than one filmmaker attempting to weave these stories together. There are examples of this in TFA too.

Look, I love and accept Star Wars for what it is. I especially love the prequels, but that doesn't mean I don't acknowledge its flaws, or ways it could be better (make the Trade Federation a more deadly threat, put Dooku in TPM, Grievous in AOTC). Many prequel haters say they don't like it because it didn't match their specific vision for Ep. 1-3. Now, I love Luke's characterization in TLJ. Spot-on perfect. But I would have changed other elements of TLJ, had I been in control. But I don't dwell on that either. I accept it as part of the larger story and move on.


Fantastic post. Nothing here I don't agree with.


Post Posted: December 20th 2017 4:31 pm
 

Join: January 31st 2005 11:58 pm
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Agreed^


In 1983 we knew that the OT was episodes IV, V and VI, so the Emperor's backstory would (eventually) be told in earlier chapters.
Was Johnson thinking clearly, when he made that remark?


Post Posted: December 21st 2017 11:36 pm
 

Join: January 31st 2005 11:58 pm
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In the original Star Wars novel ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster, there is a prologue that briefly outlines how the Emperor rose to power - that was published in 1976.
Quote:

_________________________________________________________________

ANOTHER galaxy, another time.

The Old Republic was the Republic of legend, greater than distance or time. No need to note where it was or whence it came, only to know that… it was the Republic. Once, under the wise rule of the Senate and the protection of the Jedi Knights, the Republic throve and grew. But as often happens when wealth and power pass beyond the admirable and attain the awesome, there appear those evil ones who have greed to match.So it was with the Republic at its height. Like the greatest of trees, able to withstand any external attack, the Republic rotted from within though the danger was not visible from outside.
Aided and abetted by restless, power-hungry individuals within the government, and the massive organs of commerce, the ambitious Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic. He promised to reunite the disaffected among the people and to restore the remembered glory of the Republic.
Once secure in office he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace. Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office, and the cries of the people for justice did not reach his ears.Having exterminated through treachery and deception the Jedi Knights, guardians of justice in the galaxy, the Imperial governors and bureaucrats prepared to institute a reign of terror among the disheartened worlds of the galaxy. Many used the imperial forces and the name of the increasingly isolated Emperor to further their own personal ambitions.
But a small number of systems rebelled at these new outrages. Declaring themselves opposed to the New Order they began the great battle to restore the Old Republic.
From the beginning they were vastly outnumbered by the systems held in thrall by the Emperor. In those first dark days it seemed certain the bright flame of resistance would be extinguished before it could cast the light of new truth across a galaxy of oppressed and beaten peoples…

From the First Saga

Journal of the Whills

“They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Naturally they became heroes.”

Leia Organa of Alderaan, Senator



Yeah, we knew nothing about The Emperor's backstory in '83 :whateva:


Post Posted: December 22nd 2017 8:56 pm
 
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royalguard96 wrote:
Johnson comparing backstories of Snoke and Palpatine disregards one key element:

In the OT, Palpatine was the head of the galaxy's established government, the one that was already in power when we picked up the story. Us as consumers accepted this fact and proceeded forward, because there inherently wasn't much explaining to do. He was in charge, the end.

The gaalxy's political makeup is more complicated as we begin TFA. We have the New Republic, and we have the First Order. We also come into the ST story with the understanding that the leaders of the Empire perished in ROJ and the Empire was left in tatters. So the natural question to ask is, who is the First Order, who's in charge, and how does that group exist within the New Republic?

This is part of my problem with the entire premise of the ST to begin with. ROJ had such a fairy tale happy ending, how do you continue that story in a necessary and compelling way? ROJ almost did too good of a job of tying up all the loose ends to keep that particular story going. If a "new Empire" arose (First Order) and someone was in charge of that group, how that person came to power is a necessary story to tell in order for a ST to have relevance, given what's come before it. Who Snoke is matters in the big picture, and Johnson/LFL decided it just didn't matter. I'm sorry, but this is a disservice to the integrity of the story (forget the fans for a moment). The story loses its punch when you remove any references to how the important characters came to be. We knew Palpatine was powerful because of Vader's deference to him in ESB, so when he directly enters the story in ROJ, we know what a big threat he is to Luke and the rebels. The story construction is logical in that case.

When you combine TFA and TLJ, Snoke is rendered more or less pointless, because it is Kylo Ren who Hux refers to as "Supreme Leader" in TLJ's final scenes on Crait. So the First Order had, and still has a supreme leader, but it's a different person in one film than the next. If we know how Snoke became the supreme leader, it would make the transition of that title to Ren more important. The way Snoke, in the big picture, has been handled, it screams lazy and/or sloppy storytelling, which is something you're bound to get when you have more than one filmmaker attempting to weave these stories together. There are examples of this in TFA too.

Look, I love and accept Star Wars for what it is. I especially love the prequels, but that doesn't mean I don't acknowledge its flaws, or ways it could be better (make the Trade Federation a more deadly threat, put Dooku in TPM, Grievous in AOTC). Many prequel haters say they don't like it because it didn't match their specific vision for Ep. 1-3. Now, I love Luke's characterization in TLJ. Spot-on perfect. But I would have changed other elements of TLJ, had I been in control. But I don't dwell on that either. I accept it as part of the larger story and move on.

I have the feeling we will see at least a book on Snoke, if not a standalone movie in the future. Lucasfilm went with the Saga films first because that is what people could get into. Now that we have seen Snoke for a couple of movies, we are more interested in who he was and how he came to power. They could now get buy-in from the public on a Snoke movie. I would prefer a movie, but think we are destined for a book.


Post Posted: December 22nd 2017 9:15 pm
 

Join: January 31st 2005 11:58 pm
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It could have all been explained in two lines of dialog in the movie, but instead we get some chubby chick in a jumpsuit, crapping on about how terrible war-profiteering is - like we needed to hear that!


Post Posted: December 26th 2017 11:53 am
 
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Rian Johnson's defence of his choice as to how handle the character are a self-serving one.

Does not mean he's right at all.


Post Posted: December 28th 2017 4:09 am
 

Join: December 24th 2015 5:26 am
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Mine You wrote:
royalguard96 wrote:
Johnson comparing backstories of Snoke and Palpatine disregards one key element:

In the OT, Palpatine was the head of the galaxy's established government, the one that was already in power when we picked up the story. Us as consumers accepted this fact and proceeded forward, because there inherently wasn't much explaining to do. He was in charge, the end.

The gaalxy's political makeup is more complicated as we begin TFA. We have the New Republic, and we have the First Order. We also come into the ST story with the understanding that the leaders of the Empire perished in ROJ and the Empire was left in tatters. So the natural question to ask is, who is the First Order, who's in charge, and how does that group exist within the New Republic?

This is part of my problem with the entire premise of the ST to begin with. ROJ had such a fairy tale happy ending, how do you continue that story in a necessary and compelling way? ROJ almost did too good of a job of tying up all the loose ends to keep that particular story going. If a "new Empire" arose (First Order) and someone was in charge of that group, how that person came to power is a necessary story to tell in order for a ST to have relevance, given what's come before it. Who Snoke is matters in the big picture, and Johnson/LFL decided it just didn't matter. I'm sorry, but this is a disservice to the integrity of the story (forget the fans for a moment). The story loses its punch when you remove any references to how the important characters came to be. We knew Palpatine was powerful because of Vader's deference to him in ESB, so when he directly enters the story in ROJ, we know what a big threat he is to Luke and the rebels. The story construction is logical in that case.

When you combine TFA and TLJ, Snoke is rendered more or less pointless, because it is Kylo Ren who Hux refers to as "Supreme Leader" in TLJ's final scenes on Crait. So the First Order had, and still has a supreme leader, but it's a different person in one film than the next. If we know how Snoke became the supreme leader, it would make the transition of that title to Ren more important. The way Snoke, in the big picture, has been handled, it screams lazy and/or sloppy storytelling, which is something you're bound to get when you have more than one filmmaker attempting to weave these stories together. There are examples of this in TFA too.

Look, I love and accept Star Wars for what it is. I especially love the prequels, but that doesn't mean I don't acknowledge its flaws, or ways it could be better (make the Trade Federation a more deadly threat, put Dooku in TPM, Grievous in AOTC). Many prequel haters say they don't like it because it didn't match their specific vision for Ep. 1-3. Now, I love Luke's characterization in TLJ. Spot-on perfect. But I would have changed other elements of TLJ, had I been in control. But I don't dwell on that either. I accept it as part of the larger story and move on.

I have the feeling we will see at least a book on Snoke, if not a standalone movie in the future. Lucasfilm went with the Saga films first because that is what people could get into. Now that we have seen Snoke for a couple of movies, we are more interested in who he was and how he came to power. They could now get buy-in from the public on a Snoke movie. I would prefer a movie, but think we are destined for a book.

I’d imagine the chances of a stand-alone Snoke movie are as thin as a stand-alone Dooku movie starring Christopher Lee.


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