Entertainment Weekly: Two Minutes Of Vader In Episode III

[phil]

I picked the new EW up today and Lucas says in the interview`So at least Darth Vader is in episode 3, Only for two minutes, but hes in it.` I thought other wise. From what I had read till this piont I thought otherwise. If this is old news Im sorry. Please delete and disregard if so.

[Vanda]

I mean, as far as I know, Anakin IS Vader before the suit. He does some baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad things before he's burnt but he only gets the suit at the end.

Exactly. I don't know why people can't wrap their minds around that. The suit is not called "Darth Vader." The bad man inside the suit is.

And he's bad long before the suit.

[freeman]

I believe the DVD menu is from Empire Strikes Back while he's looking for Luke.

[Projbalance]

I beg to differ on the name issue. "Darth" is a title given to a sith master. From what I understand, it has to be given, it can't be asumed. Until the name is given to him he is just Anakin Skywalker, despite to malicious and unfortunate things he does. He is being manipulatd and lied to by Palpatine, so he thinks he's doing the right thing. I'm sure there will come a moment when he could possibly be redeemed, only he will choose to go the dark path. It's only then will he be in a position to be granted the title of "Darth".

[Vanda]

"Darth" is a title given to a sith master.

Um, no. DARTH Maul was a Sith APPRENTICE. All you have to be is a Sith to be called Darth. And once Anakin sides with Sidious and takes over Dooku's spot, HE IS A SITH, regardless of whether he formally assumes the name at that time (though I hope he does).

This is true because what if Anakin had beaten Obi-Wan? What if he had never fallen into lava and never needed the suit to keep him alive? Would he NOT have been Darth Vader then? Would he have been, instead, Darth Anakin? No, of course not. Dooku->Tyranus. Palpatine->Sidious. And they both look the same in their alteregos and don't wear scary life preserving suits.

The lava bath was unfortunate, but it alone did not earn him the name.

[Vanda]

Also I remember a quote recently where he confirmed that Anakin was NOT Darth Vader untill he gets the suit.

Source.

I mean for chrissakes, when you hear the name Darth Vader, you think of the fucking suit, not an angry Anakin killing Mace Windu or shish-kabobing jedi tykes and shit.

Just because that's the mass perception doesn't mean it's correct. Lucas has certainly proven with the prequels that he doesn't care what you DID think. He's gonna tell you what to think.

And like I said, even if he doesn't officially get the title until he's wearing the suit, it doesn't matter. He was still a Sith before that.

[kremzike]

I think the issue of the name Darth Vader is being replaced with the issue of Anakin officially becoming a Sith or becoming evil and blah blah blah and it's all crossing over & making a pile of mush. Look at it like this.

Regardless of what Anakin does for Sidious and regardless of when he does it, he's not named Darth Vader until the name is spoken on screen. This is a movie, of course. I think the odds are that we'll first hear the name Darth Vader when he awakens in the suit and Sidious names him that. I could be wrong, but I think the odds that i'm right are better. It's better story telling.

But the real bottom line is this. When someone asks the question "How much screen time will Darth Vader have in ROTS?", you KNOW that they're talking about the guy in the black suit! C'mon! It's common sense! When you start reading way too much into simple things, that's when the real topic gets lost, the question doesn't get answered and a debate starts over things nobody even knows about yet. It's not wrong to want to discuss when you think Anakin gets named Darth Vader or anything similar, but sometimes you've gotta just hold onto your thoughts until you find a place where they apply. I'm not telling anyone that they can or can't discuss things here, there or anywhere, but when you start going off into another area of discussion before the original topic is as resolved as it can be, it doesn't really help the person who was asking the question and the original question, which is a fine topic for discussion itself, gets lost. Why not have two discussions? There's nothing wrong with a discussion about when Anakin is named Vader, but if you wanna talk about that, go start a thread about it. I'm far from being the law around here, but i'm just sharing my thoughts in hopes of helping everyone out. I feel like i'm even worse now for going on this long about it, but it happens to often on too many boards and every now & then you feel like saying something about it. I'd say more in an attempt not to offend anyone because i'm not trying to at all, but let me just stop here. </rant>

[Projbalance]

I can concede the point ot Krimzeke. When I think Darth Vader, I thik the suit. When you think Vader, you thik the black helmet and cape. If you put up a picture of Hayden in his Jedi robes, you think Anakin. Even if you place the name Darth Vade on the image with an arrow pointing to it, you still see Anakin and the issue gets confused. It's the suit we're talking about, and we will probably only get a few minutes of that in the film.

[Vanda]

Yes, everyone who thinks Darth Vader thinks black suited figure. But that's only because they haven't seen Episode III.

It's better story telling.

May I ask how? If you ask me, it messes with continuity JUST so that people's perceptions of the name Vader don't get messed up, which makes no sense. If Obi-Wan sees Anakin fall into lava, whether or not he sees Sidious drag him out (which is VERY doubtful), he'll still think Anakin is dead. You don't normally survive that, obviously. So how is it that spending 19 years on Tatooine, or 19 years on Dagobah, that Obi-Wan and Yoda know that Anakin has become Darth Vader? Neither of them have been close enough to him to say that they "felt" that it was him. Indeed, it could be argued that when Obi-Wan meets up with Darth Vader on the Death Star that that's the first time he sees Anakin suited. He does stop in his tracks in that scene, and that could be interpretted as Obi-Wan beholding the horror that Anakin has become for the first time.

Anyways, it makes more plot sense for Anakin to tell Obi-Wan during their fight that he is no longer Anakin, but Darth Vader. Thus, when news of "Darth Vader" being number two in the Empire comes around, they don't have to guess who it is. Granted, Obi-Wan and Yoda and pretty smart and could PROBABLY figure it out anyway, but not explaining explicitly how they know it's him would be a storytelling mistake. And we already know that Ewan thinks that III and IV match up very well, so I doubt George has made that mistake.

[Projbalance]

I dissagree. The only way Anikins actions can make sense to him is if he feels he is doing the right thing, even if what he's doing is obviously not right. He believes in Palpatine, thinks he is best for the republic, and he comes to believe that the Jedi are out to get Palps, which puts him at odds with them. For all he hated Count Dooku it makes no sense for him to throw himself in league with the bad guys, especially since he doesn't know Palps' is Darth Sidious. Being on the dark side is a lot like driving through Wisconsin; you really dont know where you are until you stop and realize, "Shit, I'm in Wisconsin." I just dont think he'd make that kind of concious choice until he felt like it was the only choice he had left.

[Forcechoke]

GL's and the hardcore fans' perception of when Anakin becomes Darth Vader doesn't mean shit to the average casual SW fan. They heard seven years ago that they would be getting the story of how Anakin became Darth Vader, and they giggled in anitcipation of seeing Vader, the mean guy in the black suit, do new and awesome bad things. Now, they're gonna hear that he's barely even in the third one at all. But all the hype for this film will be VADER, VADER, VADER. The OTDVD's are proof of that.


And we wonder why people are disappointed with the PT.

[kremzike]

Anyboody can make up any explanation as to how something is going to work. The fact is we don't know and won't know until May 19th. Shit, there are a million ways Obi-Wan could know that the guy in that suit is Vader. All you've gotta do is make one up.

Like this: Obi-Wan and the man in the suit come face to face. James Earl Jones' voice says, "Master Kenobi. I was hoping to see you after you left me to die in that volcano. Now we can finish what we had begun." *BAM* Obi-Wan puts 2 & 2 together & realizes it's Anakin in there.

Here's another way: Early in the film Anakin uses some saying like "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" or "And in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make" in conversation with Obi-Wan. Suited mystery man says the same thing to him. HOLY SHIT! He knows.

A more mystical way: Obi-Wan observes this suited man who called himself Darth Vader wrecking somebody's shit with his bad ass red lightsaber while out of sight from the dark lord. He wonders who it could be and reaches to the force for the answer. He senses Anakin's presence coming from this dark figure. MY GOD!

A stupid one: The black suited man kicks down Obi-Wan Kenobi's bedroom door and yells, "I am Darth Vader! Created by conflagration and hatred! Shall we dance?!" Obi-Wan thinks to himself, "Conflagration? Anakin used that word to beat me in Scrabble once. I challenged it, but lost. Nobody else uses that word. What the fuck... Anakin?!"

To answer your question, I think that it's better storytelling for Episode III for Vader to be named Vader when he's put in the suit simply for dramatic purposes. The big reveal. That scene will mean so much more if that's not only the first time he's in the suit but is also the first time he's called Darth Vader. I know who he is, so if he gets the name before the suit, it's not gonna mess up my brain. I even thought about that months ago. It could be cool that way. We don't know what interaction Vader is gonna have with anybody else once he's in the suit, so we can't say what Obi-Wan or Yoda will or will not be able to do. We don't know much of anything really. We know certain key points, but we don't know enough about Anakin's descent to the dark side to know at what moment he gets totally turned to the dark side. I will say that I don't think Hayden proclaiming that "I am Darth Vader" would be all that powerful. Not nearly as powerful as James Earl Jones saying it. And as for the main part of my previous post, you say that we all think of Vader as the guy in the suit because we haven't seen Episode III. Right. Nobody here has. So until we see it, that's the only image that we're 100% sure carries the label Darth Vader. But my point had nothing to do with when he gets his name & whatnot. It was simply that when someone asks about darth Vader screen time, it should be obvious to anyone here that they're talking about Black Suit Guy and that's it.

[Projbalance]

Conflagration..that cracked me up. After you get done fucking with some Autobots we should havng out.

[kremzike]

Hahahahaha! Transform and roll out.

[Kraken]

If true then look at it this way: Vader has as much screen time in the PT as Anakin does in the OT.

<cough> balance <cough>

[Vanda]

you say that we all think of Vader as the guy in the suit because we haven't seen Episode III. Right. Nobody here has. So until we see it, that's the only image that we're 100% sure carries the label Darth Vader.

I agree with you there. And I certainly would never proclaim that he will be called Vader before the suit unless I had a script saying so in my hand (and honestly, knowing Lucas, even that means nothing). It's merely my opinion that Anakin is a Sith once he chooses to side with Palpatine (an aside: you say that he doesn't know Palpatine is a Sith when he sides with him - you don't think the lightning from the fingers a la Dooku would be a hint? or how about Mace, who he has known and trusted and followed for years flat out declaring Palps to be a Sith?? anyway...). Unless the movie blatently says onscreen that he is not a Sith until he gets the suit, that will continue to be MY interpretation of it.

My hope is that it won't have to be an interpretation, but what is actually shown to me.


It was simply that when someone asks about darth Vader screen time, it should be obvious to anyone here that they're talking about Black Suit Guy and that's it.

Again, agreed. Most people don't care or think about it nearly as much as we do, and all they want to see is big bad suited Vader.

And like Force Kin says, they're going to be disappointed.

[Projbalance]

I guess until we see the movie we wont know any of this, but I still stand by my thought that Anakin doesnt know what he's gotten himself into until it's too late. It's just my feeling.

[Vanda]

I still stand by my thought that Anakin doesnt know what he's gotten himself into until it's too late.

When is it too late? When he wakes up in the suit?

So you're saying that when he goes on a killing spree in the Jedi Temple (long before he needs the suit) he doesn't know exactly what he's doing?

No offense, but with the info we have now, I find that very hard to believe.

However, I will certainly concede that the info we have is incomplete and the movie is still 7 months away.

[Insert Username]

Given that all indications point to Anakin going to Mustafar with the expressed purpose of killing the Seperatist leadership for someone he already knows is the Sith Master....I'd say by that stage he knows what he's in for but he thinks it's the better option, that he's still doing the right thing. So in his mind, he becomes a Sith to help the galaxy, to remove this destabilising influence and restore a sense of order. If you consider it that way, he could definately be given the title of Darth Vader before he goes on that mission for Palpatine (assuming he knows Palpatine is Sidious beforehand of course).

[Projbalance]

Ok, I think I need to get a little more up to speed. Can someone point me to the information that supports Vandas thoughts? My information is limited, and I want to give equal time to that side of the debate. (Sorry, just got done watching Kerry and Bush go at it)

[Hade]

Arguing about exactly when Anakin becomes Darth Vader is silly.

The point here is pretty simple.

It seems kind of ridiculous to spend a lot of time reconstructing the suit for Hayden, going through all this buildup of it on the OT-DVD featurette, and undoubtedly using Vader to market this thing if you're only going to have him in there for two minutes.

It seems like a waste.

I think Force Kin is right. Lucas has to be careful with how he uses Vader in this. Less knowledgeable/casual fans may wind up expecting lots of Vader in the last reel.

Lucas could be digging himself a hole.

The key is to strike a balance. The whole "just enough” versus “too much" thing. I figure eight to ten total minutes of Vader most likely intercut with other scenes will be fine.

[darthvodka]

Can anyone remember how AOTC changed (against received spoiler reports). What are the chances that we're way-off at the moment? I'm wondering if more suited Vader time is going to be shot?

[Ziggy]

The shooting script of AOTC leaked about a year and a half before the film opened.

The only things we didn't know for sure were the pick-up shooting changes, and what would be editied out of the final version.

This time we're mostly in the dark.

[Lord Seafood]

Can all that fit in two, or even five, minutes?

Knowing Lucas, yes it can. Just look at Anakin and Obi-Wan's "friendship" in AOTC... a few seconds in the elevator at the beginning and then some banter for a few seconds during the speeder chase in Coruscant. That's about as deep as Lucas goes these days.

[Sidious]

This is true because what if Anakin had beaten Obi-Wan? What if he had never fallen into lava and never needed the suit to keep him alive? Would he NOT have been Darth Vader then? Would he have been, instead, Darth Anakin? No, of course not. Dooku->Tyranus. Palpatine->Sidious. And they both look the same in their alteregos and don't wear scary life preserving suits.

Exactly Vanda,The suit does not create the name......He is given the name after all of his first evil deeds so it is logical that he is babtised Darth Vader after that (suit or not). And like you said .. if he had never fallen in the lava pool he would never have needed the suit but still been given the name Darth Vader after all of his first evil deeds were done.The spoiler reports (the old ones) said that he would be given the name after the suit .. I think Sidious was testing him to see if he would carry out all of his first missions before given him the name Darth Vader (suit or not).

But Vader in Suit only getting 2 minutes dosnt bother me that mutch.. becouse it is a movie about Anakin's turn to the dark side .. and i would rather see more of that than more of suited Vader which we have plenty of in the OT.

[Kalla]

And he gets to the point where there's NO turning back, which in my opinion will be when he deals the death blow to Mace. I mean, killing Dooku is bad, but in Anakin's mind he can still justify it - Dooku's the villian, the leader of the separatists, and a sith lord. Anakin can reason out why it's a good thing to do away with him.

Something I've been pondering lately...I'm assuming with Dooku Palps is egging him on as he sits in his snakeprint robes... yes he can justify Dooku's death, however, does Anakin kill Mace because he's led to believe by Palps that Mace is the root of all corruption with the Order? For all of his flaws I can't see him just blatantly kill Mace for the hell of it.

Now Granted he did slaughter the entire Tusken Camp, but that was done out of Revenge for his mother, there was an emotion behind that.

I'm also having a real difficult time grasping exactly how it is he gets named. Does Palps do the Queen of England and 'Dubs Thee Darth Vader'?

I'm also apparently having a tough time putting this into words...When I'm sitting there in May of 05 I just don't want it to be cheap ya know?

Lets just say that a more appropriate question for me is not exactly 'when' he gets his name...(After Killing Mace, or Waking up in Cuffs) but more of a 'how'...You guys get what I mean?

[vanillazinger]

<<------------ Here is a preview of the Vader marketing blitz to come, yet we'll get no real moments of signature raspy coolness. Public expectations will be quite different. LFL is handing the movie a PR deficit before it's even released.

[BobTheGoon]

<<------------ Here is a preview of the Vader marketing blitz to come, yet we'll get no real moments of signature raspy coolness. Public expectations will be quite different. LFL is handing the movie a PR deficit before it's even released.

Lava Berry! Yum!

[vanillazinger]

Lava Berry! Yum!

I was hoping the sprinkles would be shaped like scorched body parts, but no such luck.

[vanillazinger]

Vanillazinger,

Where did you find that Pop Tart pic?

I scanned it from the box last night.

[vanillazinger]

It's the same over-sweet berry flavor they use for all their special promotions. But the entire concept is so morbid that I couldn't resist it.

The lag time between these "demo" versions and public release is pretty long. I wouldn't expect these on the store shelves till next spring.

[BobTheGoon]

Lava. Berry. Pop. Tarts.

How many kids are going to want to eat that shit after they watch Anakin FALL INTO LAVA and get burned beyond recognition?

"I want some lava berry in my mouth so I can look like a burnt lung! YUM!"

I can't wait to burn my mouth on their superheated insides!

[Fields]

Wildberry PopTarts are the best, hands down, no question.

What was the topic of this thread again?