[AICN] Jedi Council Roundtable • November 2004

[darthpsychotic]

Part 1:
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=18821

Part 2:
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=18820

[Ziggy]

I'd be more of a fan of these things if they had a few people on there who liked the prequels.

The "battered housewife" analogy was beyond ridiculous.

[Jedi Master Matt]

I'm sure I've mentioned this before having group meetings to discuss Star Wars is SUPER NERDY.

Don't forget the main reason they have group meetings - TO EAT. It is Harry's site after all.

[DoubleSith]

Boring. Like Fatboy has mentioned before, nothing really new added to the same discussion that has been going around in circles since 1999. At this point, you like the prequels or you don't. I don't think one side is ever going to convince the other to change their viewpoint.

Kind of amusing how they kept bringing up "diminishing box office return" as an indicator of dissatisfaction with the prequels (certainly an arguable point) but fail to mention that the box office diminished from ANH to ESB (a film they claim EVERYBODY loved back then) as well...

[Lord Seafood]

He makes a good point in his introduction:

"And to those of you who think that we just get together to hold these because we “hate” STAR WARS or George Lucas... get a grip. STAR WARS made most of us who we are today. It was the moment in pop culture history that defined us as kids, and if we have complicated feelings about the series and Lucas as a filmmaker as adults, that doesn’t mean we “hate” anything... it simply means we are capable of more than a simplistic one-note reaction to something."

I don't like the way the prequels have turned out, but I'm still a Star Wars fan and I'm still looking forward to Episode III because I know I'll like some of it. It annoys me when I turn to criticise something the prequels do badly, only to have a people tell me my opinion matters not because I'm a "hater". Well, the only thing I TRULY hate is people who have a simplistic black and white vision of Star Wars fandom. I'm glad the article was introduced that way and pointed that idiocy out, because it's important for others to realise that some of us fans can both hate and enjoy the prequels, although maybe not in equal measure.

[Zidious]

He makes a good point in his introduction:

There's not a single good point in the entire article.

we have complicated feelings about the series

They don't have "complicated feelings". They have simplistic, ignorant and childish feelings.

Here's Herc:
and left me very, very bitter and battered.

My god man. He needs help.

we are capable of more than a simplistic one-note reaction to something

Typical basher arrogance. "We bashers are superior to those simplistic dolts who like the movies."

[vanillazinger]

I don't like the way the prequels have turned out, but I'm still a Star Wars fan and I'm still looking forward to Episode III because I know I'll like some of it. It annoys me when I turn to criticise something the prequels do badly, only to have a people tell me my opinion matters not because I'm a "hater". Well, the only thing I TRULY hate is people who have a simplistic black and white vision of Star Wars fandom. I'm glad the article was introduced that way and pointed that idiocy out, because it's important for others to realise that some of us fans can both hate and enjoy the prequels, although maybe not in equal measure.

Amen to that.

[Lord Seafood]

He makes a good point in his introduction:

There's not a single good point in the entire article.

we have complicated feelings about the series

They don't have "complicated feelings". They have simplistic, ignorant and childish feelings.

Here's Herc:
and left me very, very bitter and battered.

My god man. He needs help.

we are capable of more than a simplistic one-note reaction to something

Typical basher arrogance. "We bashers are superior to those simplistic dolts who like the movies."

[Zidious]

The AICN article says nothing new or original. It doesn't say anything that hasn't already been repeated 1000 times. What is the point?

Why do so many get off on repeating the same tired old complaints again and again? What psychology is at work here?

[Dogg Thang]

Well they are recycling old complaints because most of them are still relevant. And if Ep3 comes out and still suffers from similar issues to the first two prequels, you'll be hearing those old complaints for a long, long time.

Dogg.

[Dogg Thang]

Yep, and that's perfectly valid. For all of my criticism of the prequels, I still get a huge kick out of them and love some parts. That does not invalidate my problems and nor do my problems invalidate my enjoyment. There's a gulf of grey area between the 'pro' people and the 'anti' people that I suspect the majority of us are in.

Dogg.

[pjvader]

i think this quote form the council pretty much sums up aintitcool in its present form

Jed the Hutt: If EPISODE III was an art film, I’d see it like a hundred times.

[VT-16]

Read the whole thing, had a good laugh.

The highpoint was the opening:

And to those of you who think that we just get together to hold these because we “hate” STAR WARS or George Lucas... get a grip. STAR WARS made most of us who we are today. It was the moment in pop culture history that defined us as kids, and if we have complicated feelings about the series and Lucas as a filmmaker as adults, that doesn’t mean we “hate” anything... it simply means we are capable of more than a simplistic one-note reaction to something.
So... take it away, guys...

Moriarty: (on speaker phone) Are STAR WARS fans, in fact, the battered wives of fandom? The EPISODE III trailer seems to be a promise – “He won’t hit us again. He loves us.” Are we just setting ourselves up for disappointment, or do we believe that he truly has the stuff to riiiiiiiiiiiise... and make the film we want this time?

Herc: I feel like a total battered wife. I feel very much like Jennifer Lopez in that movie... and it’s an amazing trailer. All the trailers have gotten me extremely excited about every STAR WARS movie for the last three movies and left me very, very bitter and battered.

From to in three easy steps.

[DoubleSith]

BTW, as someone who has had to deal with a domestic violence situation involving a dear friend of mine, I find the comparison between a fucking movie and a serious social problem both childish and insulting.

[kerouac777]

The so-called Jedi Council over at AICN is a handfull of critics who fail to grasp that criticizing doesn't only involve pointing out the faults of something.

They all want to keep their own fans at the site and, in doing so, have take on this sort of Drew Pearson personality, confused about what it means to critique.

Anyhow, that's what happens when you get a group of wannabes who review movies on a glorified fansite under false names. They can be as shitty and nasty as they want to be, so long as they do so fashionably, and they'll keep the sheep coming back for more. I guess they call that fame.

It's not just on AICN, though. It's here, it's on SW.com, it's at TFN, it's at Opsom. Everybody wants to be cool.

At least here, though, most people realize the epitome of cool doesn't necessarily begin with a messageboard.

[kerouac777]

at the end of the day they just want BIG breasts...

Can't fault them for that.

I dunno, ya'll. I read stuff like that and just wonder why it's worth so much effort.

I love Star Wars. I've had an awful lot of fun my entire life with the movies and the toys and the random afternoon discussions with friends over the little details and what ifs. I've got certain expectations of what this movie is going to be like and what I'd like to see, but those expectations are based on the "wouldn't it be neat if we were right," not, "if I wasn't right, George Lucas raped my childhood."

And, in the end, it's cool to see something that I didn't expect. It's cool to see a movie that I wasn't able to figure out 15 years before it was even written.

Either way, though -- whether we were able to figure it out when we felt like thinking about it and talking about it, or if we were completely off -- it's friggin' fun to go to the movies and watch the spectacle. It's fun to laugh with and at it. It's just damn fun.

And it's just a damn movie.

[SI]

My God AICN are fucking idiots.

Fucking oxygen thiefs every last one of them.

[SI]

Kind of amusing how they kept bringing up "diminishing box office return" as an indicator of dissatisfaction with the prequels (certainly an arguable point) but fail to mention that the box office diminished from ANH to ESB (a film they claim EVERYBODY loved back then) as well...

[Ayatollah Krispies]

What psychology is at work here?

The same psychology that allows someone to say in total seriousness "STAR WARS made most of us who we are today."

I'll always be a Star Wars fan, but look, ANH became, within a year of its release, the highest-grossing movie of all time. There is fucking NOTHING unique about liking Star Wars. There is, however, something terribly sad and limiting about proudly stating that the work of someone else made you who you are today.

I strongly suggest that anyone who thinks that Star Wars is the beginning and end of artistic expression get the fuck out of the house and experience something beyond your perspective. I hear MOMA reopened in Manhattan this week. That would be a good place to start.

[Artmaul]

In all fairness guys -- Sarah S. from the AICN Council is a personal friend of mine, and she really loves the prequels. She also is exceptionally optimistic about Episode III. She probably feels like she is pissing upwind with that group, but she's a true lover of SW.

[Ziggy]

I was dissappointed that these people who work in the biz and know people couldn't give us one nugget of new information. It's been months since the last time they ran a council at AICN, and there's absolutely nothing new to talk about?!?


With the exception of Sarah and Obi-Swan, it was just a regurgitation of "Why the prequels suck!"

[CoGro]

I was dissappointed that these people who work in the biz and know people couldn't give us one nugget of new information. It's been months since the last time they ran a council at AICN, and there's absolutely nothing new to talk about?!?


With the exception of Sarah and Obi-Swan, it was just a regurgitation of "Why the prequels suck!"

So why even go there? Waste of time.

[Obi]

Aren't they all fat couch potatoes neway?? I am still convinced Harry was paid under the table for his sneak peek at AOTC.


CoGro, that is a bad ass avatar.

[darthvodka]

Impressive CoGro (avatar) , most impressive. However you do realise that now you've proved the technology works H$ will display the next trailer that size!

[CoGro]

I give 100 credit to DK..

Direct your flatter to him

[rhonderoo]

What psychology is at work here?

The same psychology that allows someone to say in total seriousness "STAR WARS made most of us who we are today."

I'll always be a Star Wars fan, but look, ANH became, within a year of its release, the highest-grossing movie of all time. There is fucking NOTHING unique about liking Star Wars. There is, however, something terribly sad and limiting about proudly stating that the work of someone else made you who you are today.

I strongly suggest that anyone who thinks that Star Wars is the beginning and end of artistic expression get the fuck out of the house and experience something beyond your perspective. I hear MOMA reopened in Manhattan this week. That would be a good place to start.

This is so true. If it affects you that much, you need to GET OUT OF THE BASEMENT and go get laid.


Sarah does seem to be swimming in a sea of ignorance with that lot. I'd have to kick that ass Kracken or whatever his name is in the nu...I mean shins.

[kerouac777]

guys let's talk about how uncool aicn is because that's a totally original and important topic. definitly worthy of ep. 3 forum sticky am I right?

As opposed to discussing what might be in the next Star Wars movie?

I don't think we should decide topics by their importance 'round here, seeing as how we are posting on a Star Wars message board and all.

And, for the record, Harry Knowles is no Miles Davis..

but what does cool have to do with it?