Josh Griffen's December Spoils ￾• December 9 2004 Update

[darthpsychotic]

Padme's Death Bed Scene:

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=17610638&start=17612115

Would this do it?

The hovering droid comes out of the medical center to greet the two anxious Jedi. If he could give any expression from his teal eyes, it would be one of sadness. His multiple arms try to convey the message of despair to the two remaining Jedi in the galaxy. In the background, we see Padme lying face up on a floating, white, oval-shaped bed. She is dead, covered to her chest in a white sheet and wearing a light blue top.

Blue aliens with large hands tend to her expressionless body and to the nearby medical computers - but nothing it seems can be done. Yoda sighs quietly as the droid begins to speak. "I'm sorry, we were unable to save her. We were, however, able to save ... the children."

JG



Heroes:

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=17610458&start=17612031

About halfway through the film we see the heroes really and truly revealed. That is, if you don't count the rest of the Jedi who gave of their lives up to this point.

The heores: Yoda, in his quest to rid the universe of Palpidious once and for all, and Obi-Wan in his veritable quest to turn Anakin back from the Dark Side.

Both fail utterly.

JG



Tri-Fighters

(Scrapbook cover link)

It is a Tri-Fighter.

That view isn't all that impressive though. There's a shot in the film where three in formation sweep right by the camera, red lasers blasting. Actually, I think it looks more Matrix like when I first say them - they have one large laser cannon in the middle of the 3 curved wings and red "eyes" too. All black, metallic steel looking.

VERY COOL.

JG



Palpatine versus Mace Windu

The old man was left crumpled to his knees.

"I cannot, I turn myself over to you. I am too weak in the end," he said. "Too old, weak ... I give up. Don't kill me, Master Windu. I surrender."

JG



Emperor's Storm

http://boards.theforce.net/Revenge_of_the_Sith_(Spoilers_Allowed)/b10331/17676846/

"Fool!" The lightning was reflected back to its source. The Chancellor reeled from the shock, snarling at his prey.


Clouds of darkness filled the sky, and lightening bolts jolted the Coruscant cityscape. But it was a footnote compared to the lightening the Chancellor dispensed at his fingertips that same moment.

JG



Qui-Gon and Force Ghosts

Yoda feels that he is responsible for the failure in the fall of the Jedi. He talks to the force, who talks back to him in the voice of ... Qui-Gon Jinn. It had been speaking to him these past thirteen years, answering his questions about life, and more importantly, eternal life.

"Do not blame yourself, my old friend."

JG


Near the time of Padme's death

So one of the last remaining Jedi in the galaxy was in the middle of his first true lesson of the Force. In the corridor just ahead of him stood Bail Organa. His face told the whole story.

"You're needed at the surgical facility," he said. "Obi-Wan asked for you to come. It's Padmé - she's dying."

JG


Thanks to Zidious for collecting the below quotes from The Griff.


Josh commenting in his own words about Yoda:

Yoda blames himself because he was too old - "out of touch" so to speak with the changing galaxy. He was trained centuries ago by ancient Jedi of a different generation. The galaxy changed; he and the Jedi did not. Yoda blames himself for leading the Guardians of Peace down that futile path.

JG


In another thread, he also added this line without any comment or context:

"Do you think the fear you feel is mine?"

JG

In a thread about the last words spoken by particular characters:

Mace: "You can explain the difference after he's dead."

JG


Emperor Sidious

There is a scene where the hooded Palpidious declares himself Emperor of the newly-created Empire. My how different the good chancellor looks now.

JG

[SkyWard]

Yes. It looks as if Beru & Owen and Bail & his wife get to name the children.

Maybe somewhere beforehand (or in the movie) Padmé discusses with Anakin (assuming they are having a single child) the name she wants if it's a girl and the name she wants if it's a boy. Then he brings it up to his friend and mentor, Obi-Wan, in a brief discussion about the pregnancy.

OH YEAH! Nobody knows they're married! (or pregnant, for that matter) Scratch that.

Me wonders how this will play out.

[Ternian]

I thought the aliens were grey...?

And there seems to be a lot of hoverbeds. Isn't Padme on a hover-coffin not soon after??

[Oski]

About halfway through the film we see the heroes really and truly revealed. That is, if you don't count the rest of the Jedi who gave of their lives up to this point.

The heores: Yoda, in his quest to rid the universe of Palpidious once and for all, and Obi-Wan in his veritable quest to turn Anakin back from the Dark Side.

Both fail utterly.

JG

I take the liberty to disagree. Obi-Wan does not fail, at least not utterly. While unable to turn Anakin, he defeats him, even more thoroughly than Palpidous defeats Yoda. Unfortunately, the Yoda-Palpidous duel is the only relevant one from a galactic point of view, and here the good guys lose.

This brings me to the following, nice idea: Imagine that on the brink of defeat vs. Palpidous, Yoda ponders some thought like "if ever there is a place in time and space to use the dark side of the Force, it's now". He is then able to summon just enough anger and hate to overcome Palpidous. But underestimating the truth of his own teachings, Yoda gets overwhelmed by the dark side and declares himself emperor. Wouldn't that make a nice infinities-storyline? Oh, and the first decree of Emperor Yoda would be to officially change imperial grammar...

[Jeordie]

Maybe somewhere beforehand (or in the movie) Padmé discusses with Anakin (assuming they are having a single child) the name she wants if it's a girl and the name she wants if it's a boy.

It'll be funny If Anakin says, If it's a boy we'd name him Luke, then Padme says, If It's a girl we'd name her Leia.

[nomad]

at a certain point during padmes' pregnancy any jedi at her side should have been able to feel the babies presence.... i wonder if g. lucas is going to screen any suspicious looking jedi near padme with obscure glances at her tummy.

[Jeordie]

Maybe is Yoda, he says.... Something I sense.... A New Hope.

[nomad]

gold my friend... gold... a little cheesy... but stilll gold!!

[Ethril]

Obi-wan knew... "Obiwan was wise to hide her from me.. now his failure is complete."

[KitFisto]

If these elements come through aswell as they do in those posts as they do in the films, wow just wow.

[Dingo]

Demodex is right, Yoda delivers the line while the camera is focused only on him.

the real question in my head is why does Luke retain the Skywalker last name... when Shimi (or how ever the fuck you spell her name) married... she and Anakin would have been the last Skywalkers... Owen and Beru would have went under a different last name (that of Shimi's husban)... so yeah, if someone can explain that, go ahead....

While not a full-fledged explanation to everything you asked, a few years back one of the books did ask the same question, with an answer along the lines of Luke needing the Skywalker name to give him the extra incentive to redeem it. That essentially Obi-Wan and Yoda were using Luke as a weapon against Vader and the Emperor, and had to use every part of it that they could, while Leia was kept hidden (and thus without the Skywalker name) as a back-up.

[Ethril]

Good point Ethril.

Although.. it occurs to me after I wrote that.. Obiwan knew.. but how did Vader know that Obiwan knew? ...

[Zidious]

Josh commenting on the cover of the scrapbook (Scrapbook cover link)

It is a Tri-Fighter.

That view isn't all that impressive though. There's a shot in the film where three in formation sweep right by the camera, red lasers blasting. Actually, I think it looks more Matrix like when I first say them - they have one large laser cannon in the middle of the 3 curved wings and red "eyes" too. All black, metallic steel looking.

VERY COOL.

JG

[Bandersnatch]

Demodex is right, Yoda delivers the line while the camera is focused only on him.

the real question in my head is why does Luke retain the Skywalker last name...

While not a full-fledged explanation to everything you asked, a few years back one of the books did ask the same question, with an answer along the lines of Luke needing the Skywalker name to give him the extra incentive to redeem it. That essentially Obi-Wan and Yoda were using Luke as a weapon against Vader and the Emperor, and had to use every part of it that they could, while Leia was kept hidden (and thus without the Skywalker name) as a back-up.

Also, for what it's worth, nobody says the name Skywalker in Episode 4 until Luke sees Leia on the Death Star and says "I'm Luke Skywalker, I'm here to rescue you!"

[CoGro]

"I'm Luke Skywalker, I'm here to rescue you!"

"you're who?"

[Hade]

I thought we already heard that Obi-Wan was supposed to have some big, emotional scene with Padme before she died?

This doesn't sound right.

[Forcechoke]

Dudd'n necessarily rule that out though, Hade.

Could still happen, right?

[Insert Username]

Well at some point, Padme is going to have to tell Obi-Wan to take Luke to Owen and Beru and let him know where the fuck they are on Tatooine...cause she's been to the Lars homestead but he sure hasn't. So I guess that death scene could be important unless they pussy out and get the important info across in some other way. I can see it being like another Qui-Gon death moment for Obi-Wan if treated right, with him blaming himself not only for Anakin's turn to the Dark Side but for Padme' death.

[kerouac777]

I'll bet there's a "plot hole" waiting to happen when, in her dying gasp, Padme isn't able to say, "*cough* Obi-Wan.. Anakin and I decided that, if I have a boy, we'll name him Luke and if I have a girl, we'll name her Leia. Also, if for some reason you decide to hide the child from Anakin and the evil Emperor, if it's a boy, take him to the Lars' on Tatooine. They're near the Dune Sea. Their address is in the directory. If it's a girl, take her to Alderaan to be looked after by Bail Organa. You remember him, right? *cough* So cold.."

Certainly, it'll be a dramatic moment, instead of an exposition scene, even if it means dealing with the uproar of, "How'd Obi know all that?" later.

[phil]

Just a thought, I came to this conclusion the other day that the reason that the droids get their memory wiped is due to them seeing the children being born or being separated aboard the Tantive whatever. To protect their whereabouts’ don’t know if anyone already thought of this, kinda on the subject, I just didn’t want to start a new thread just for this. Thanks.

[SnakePlisken]

Just a thought, I came to this conclusion the other day that the reason that the droids get their memory wiped is due to them seeing the children being born or being separated aboard the Tantive whatever. To protect their whereabouts’ don’t know if anyone already thought of this, kinda on the subject, I just didn’t want to start a new thread just for this. Thanks.

Lucas likes your idea! At least C3PO will get his memory wiped in RotS.

[vanillazinger]

Why do we even have to hear the kids name in the movie at all..

I agree, but not to preserve any surprises. Rather because there's simply no need to mention the kids' names. Not that it couldn't be done, but the non-cheesy (in a bad way) scenarios are pretty limited. We don't need another line like, "This is my girlfriend Beru."

I rate it alongside Dagobah and other OT bits as possibly included but not at all necessary to ROTS.

[CoGro]

I agree, the naming of the twins is irrelevant.

It could come up in dialogue unrelated to the naming of the children....

"I'll watch over Luke..."

I've always wondered though, why doesn't obi-wan or yoda take care of Luke or Leia from childbirth and start their jedi training IMMEDIATELY. Would Luke not have been a stronger jedi had he begun his training at the age of 1? What was the need for waiting 20 years? If anything, Owen was a barrier for Luke to brought up as a Jedi, so why hand Luke over to Owen when Ben could have easily kept Luke from the Lars family and acted as his father? Maybe these things will be addressed, maybe they wont.

I guess some people would say: The ongoing proximity of two powerful force users would send a ripple through the force and Vader/Sidious would know what was going on....but isn't that debunked by the logic of sending Luke to Tattooine because Vader would never willfully return there?

I don't think the movie will venture that deep into explaining these reasons, but they are food for thought.

[vanillazinger]

I guess some people would say: The ongoing proximity of two powerful force users would send a ripple through the force and Vader/Sidious would know what was going on....but isn't that debunked by the logic of sending Luke to Tattooine because Vader would never willfully return there?

Not really, since the Force allows you to see across the galaxy. It's one thing to live in a remote area where Vader won't look. It's quite another to send up flares.

But I think as much as anything it's a reflection of Obi-Wan's personal feelings. After all, his previous attempt to train a young Jedi ended just about as disastrously as possible. Now he's got a baby boy who's at least as Force-powerful as Anakin. I doubt he's going to rush out and try it again. And I also think Yoda will strongly resist any such attempt. The last thing they want is to hand the Emperor an even more powerful weapon than the last one they handed him.

[CoGro]

Not really, since the Force allows you to see across the galaxy. It's one thing to live in a remote area where Vader won't look. It's quite another to send up flares.

But I think as much as anything it's a reflection of Obi-Wan's personal feelings. After all, his previous attempt to train a young Jedi ended just about as disastrously as possible. Now he's got a baby boy who's at least as Force-powerful as Anakin. I doubt he's going to rush out and try it again. And I also think Yoda will strongly resist any such attempt. The last thing they want is to hand the Emperor an even more powerful weapon than the last one they handed him.

That was Yoda's fear in ESB and ROTJ, that an untrained Luke was vulnerable to Vader and the Emperor because he was untrained and not headstrong (moreso in ESB mind you) but it was still a concern.

Could Luke have been better prepared against Vader in ESB had be been a "fully trained Jedi Knight, with the force as his ally" to conquer Vader? Luke was "taking the quick and easy path, as Vader did" and was likely to become "an agent of evil". Would these problems not be washed away if Luke had been carefully trained and prepared since birth under the tutalage of Yoda? (I think your Obi-Wan case is good btw, Ben WOULD be discouraged to take Luke as a padawan so quickly...)

Again, I think these 'what if's of Star Wars amount to nothing but conversation, but it is something to consider when hypothesizing about the decisions about where the twins were hidden and the path the Jedi laid out for their destinies.

[vanillazinger]

I do expect to see some insight into Yoda and Obi-Wan's decision to let the children grow up "normally." It's not required, of course, but without it the movie will leave a lot of questions unanswered, for no real reason that I can think of. I'm curious to find out what Lucas has in mind. Simple answers, almost certainly.

[Raz Zaphon]

I've always wondered though, why doesn't obi-wan or yoda take care of Luke or Leia from childbirth and start their jedi training IMMEDIATELY

Although this report doesn't fit with my ideas, my theory on this issue has always been that Padme was all for the decision to split up the twins and actually requested personally that Luke be sent to Tatooine to be raised by Owen and Beru. She is after all the only person in the movie that should know about them. Given that is Padme's dying wish (a nice contrast to Qui-Gon's dying wish at the end of TPM too) Yoda and Obi-Wan have a moral obligation to send the children where their Mother wants.

There is however nothing immoral about training Luke if he decided to become a Jedi as an adult (or nearly an adult at least; old enough to leave the nest so to speak).

What do you think?

[CoGro]

...

What do you think?

Could be..

It would be a good contrast to "you must train the boy", but would Padme really abandon the "New Hope" the Jedi have in defeating the dark side? Basically, does she want her children to grow up free of the burden of responsibility? There is alot to consider, but I'm sure it's a very simple answer....since I'm not GL, I dont know what it is though. I just hope it makes sense...

If PH is confident there is resolve to Episode 3, then I guess i'm satisfied.

[Hade]

Dudd'n necessarily rule that out though, Hade.

Could still happen, right?

True. I'm just not sure I like the steps.

I'd rather have the droid come out and say that they have saved the children. We could see the obvious surprise from Yoda and Obi-Wan upon hearing the news that there was more than one child.

Then I'd have the droid say that her injuries are beyond their medical abilities. There is nothing that can be done for her. She doesn't have much time left. She is asking to speak to an Obi-Wan Kenobi.

The way Josh has it, Padme dies off-screen. That's not exactly the way to create what is supposed to be an emotionally charged scene.

[Forcechoke]

Wait, we're getting an emotionally charged scene in the prequels?!

[Hade]

Well, I was hoping. Too much to wish for?

[Zidious]

Josh added this without comment to a Palpatine thread:

The old man was left crumpled to his knees.

"I cannot, I turn myself over to you. I am too weak in the end," he said. "Too old, weak ... I give up. Don't kill me, Master Windu. I surrender."

JG

[vanillazinger]

Eeeee-vil!

That's just the sort of sheer nastiness I'd hoped from Darth Sidious.

[Bandersnatch]

I am too weak in the end...

If I had a dollar for every time a Sith said that to me...

[CoGro]

that's terrific.

[vanillazinger]

Jiminy Christmas, Josh is apparently quoting lines from the novel now!
I'll grab the new ones and post them.

http://boards.theforce.net/Revenge_of_the_Sith_(Spoilers_Allowed)/b10331/17676846/

"Fool!" The lightning was reflected back to its source. The Chancellor reeled from the shock, snarling at his prey.


Clouds of darkness filled the sky, and lightening bolts jolted the Coruscant cityscape. But it was a footnote compared to the lightening the Chancellor dispensed at his fingertips that same moment.

[vanillazinger]

More likely a continuation of the Windu battle that Darth_Zidious quoted above.

[HST]

Its being heavily pimped over at TFN that Sids is almost killed by mace that anakin steps in and saves him. If griff is correct than this will be an interesting scene to watch. Now my main question about this is: Is sids really that weak (plausable, because i always figured he wouldnt get anywhere without anakin on his side) or is sids just playing weak to draw anakin out (equally plausable). So hmmmm. Guess we wont know for sure till may.

[CoGro]

I would think that it is Palps fucking with Mace trying to pull Anakin further to his side. I think if Sidous can handle Yoda that he should be able to handle Mace.

Exactly.

[HST]

Although i may come across as niave i still am not convinced that Palps is omnipotent as many seem to be. I mean ill give him that he playing possume in the mace duel. But i dont see why he has to come out as the Baddest mofo in the Sextology. It just seems to break continuity if by the end of ROTS we are left with Palps being the strongest force user, then we go to the OT and he comes accross as possibly one of the weakest. I mean force lightning isnt that impressive, and in the OT all he manages to do is control vader and use lightning to cripple a whiny jedi wannabe. It would just seem way out of place to have Palps become this superhuman force user. I think its far more like in the Yoda duel that other things come into play that help out Palps.

[CoGro]

Well, you're also rating Palpatine's power based on one fight. In the OT, he is essentially the baddest mofo in the galaxy, being that he practically controls it. There's far more to the Force than what you can do in a fight.

Yep.

Also keep in mind that Palpatine was torturing Luke in ROTJ, he coud've squashed him like a bug if he wanted.

[Antiriad]

Indeed, the fact that Sidious didnt have his lightsaber with him meant that he was cleary confident that he was in complete control of the situation and could handle anything. Ah but over confidence was his weakness...

And just because we never see him use his lightsaber in the OT either doesnt mean he still doesnt know how to effectively use one.

[Zidious]

Not really sure about this one. Again, Josh posted without comment:

Yoda feels that he is responsible for the failure in the fall of the Jedi. He talks to the force, who talks back to him in the voice of ... Qui-Gon Jinn. It had been speaking to him these past thirteen years, answering his questions about life, and more importantly, eternal life.

"Do not blame yourself, my old friend."

JG

[vanillazinger]

This one is interesting. It sounds like the kind of thing a novel would flesh out and to which a script might only allude. It'd be odd if Yoda consulted Qui-Gon's ghost in ROTS. Unless Qui-Gon was in cartoon form, like Billy Batson talking to the gods.

[Vanda]

I'm generally an anti-EU guy, (which means I may not know what I'm talking about here, so correct me if I'm wrong) but didn't the AOTC novel say that Yoda was surprised and confused when he heard Qui-Gon's voice while Anakin was going to town on the Tuskens? That would certainly seem to contradict that he'd been talking to Qui-Gon for 13 years.

Methinks Griff is reaching.

[vanillazinger]

Or maybe Lucas changed his mind, or didn't tell the previous novelist all the details, or hadn't worked out all the details at that time. If he'd let it slide for a novelist to extrapolate that Obi-Wan and Owen Lars were brothers, something like this would hardly register on his radar.

[Zidious]

Near the time of Padme's death:

So one of the last remaining Jedi in the galaxy was in the middle of his first true lesson of the Force. In the corridor just ahead of him stood Bail Organa. His face told the whole story.

"You're needed at the surgical facility," he said. "Obi-Wan asked for you to come. It's Padmé - she's dying."

JG

[Faid]

So it sounds like Josh is just transcribing a book now...

[Vanda]

i suspect that josh is now quoting to show lucasfilm that he is no longer pretending to have seen the movie. looks like he is going to milk this hero worship for all it is worth. in 3 months it wont be worth anything.

And yet we continue to talk about him.

He's just THAT fascinating.

[Zidious]

Josh commenting in his own words about Yoda:

Yoda blames himself because he was too old - "out of touch" so to speak with the changing galaxy. He was trained centuries ago by ancient Jedi of a different generation. The galaxy changed; he and the Jedi did not. Yoda blames himself for leading the Guardians of Peace down that futile path.

JG

I don't see EP III having much exposition about this. The novel probably fills it out.

In another thread, he also added this line without any comment or context:

"Do you think the fear you feel is mine?"

JG

In a thread about the last words spoken by particular characters:

Mace: "You can explain the difference after he's dead."

JG