MF TERNIAN REPORT: Will Of The Force

[robbie_20002002]

I was waiting for Tern to post this here but i'll do it for him. From the front page. http://www.millenniumfalcon.com


EPISODE III Will Of The Force

"To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from you father when you were born." Obi-Wan Kenobi, Return Of The Jedi


When Padme dies after giving birth to Anakin's offspring, Obi-Wan immediately begins the separation process of Luke and Leia Skywalker to protect them from the Emperor.

Obi-Wan hopes that should the Emperor discover one of them, the other will remain safely hidden from the Sith. However, when asked about training the infants, Yoda firmly states:

"Jedi training, the sole source of self-discipline is not. When right is the time for skills to be taught, to us the living Force will bring them. Until then, wait we will, and watch, and learn."

Luke is taken to the planet of Tatooine. The last image of Obi-Wan is of him riding off into twin suns settling across the Jundtland Wastes on the back of an Eeopie.

On the planet of Dagobah, Yoda inspects his new dewllings as the baby girl Leia is handed into the loving hands of the Queen of Aldeeran by the Prince Consort, Bail Organa.

[robbie_20002002]

Yeah the living force part definitely suggests a Qui Gon influence. As for the Eopie i wouldn't worry about it. I doubt it will mug to the camera. More likely Obi-Wan and the Eopie won't be in close up. Excellent spoiler.

[robbie_20002002]

I think by this point we'll be so wrapped up in the emotion of the last Star Wars film and with the music swelling, it won't register. If it's done right it will be a fantastic way to end the PT.

[Dogg Thang]

Yikes, are those the actual words? The spoiler is great but that is one of the most convoluted Yoda sentences to date. Usually when he is saying anything remotely complicated, he does it in a more straightforward structure but that one's a bit of a mess.

Interesting that there is a feeling of 'wait and see' in most of these Jedi spoilers. Like they are leaving it up to the Force to sort out its own mess rather than actively trying to assist. That's not a comment on being good or bad, just an observation on the views of the Jedi as a religion. Quite possibly Yoda learned from recent events - being the defenders of the Republic and turning into an army, which they had said they wouldn't - that using the Force to actively achieve aims can only lead to bad, rather than waiting for the Force itself to call people to those goals. Any idea what I am talking about?

Anyway, I like that. It reminds me a little of Taoism and also explains exactly why Yoda and Obi-Wan sat on their asses for so long.

Dogg.

[BearaceDougie]

can anyone please xpand on

"On the planet of Dagobah, Yoda inspects his new dewllings as the baby girl Leia is handed into the loving hands of the Queen of Aldeeran by the Prince Consort, Bail Organa."

just dont understand it

other then that great spoiler Tern/Hard Copy

this and the Star Destroyer seen will rock my world [/i]

[stan Marsh]

very cool.

So glad to have MF back with spoilers and then good discussion about them.

This definitely shows that GL is trying to make that transition from PT to the OT as smooth as possible after what are going to be very tumultuous events

[stan Marsh]

can anyone please xpand on

"On the planet of Dagobah, Yoda inspects his new dewllings as the baby girl Leia is handed into the loving hands of the Queen of Aldeeran by the Prince Consort, Bail Organa."

just dont understand it

other then that great spoiler Tern/Hard Copy

this and the Star Destroyer seen will rock my world [/i]

I would guess the tantive drops yoda off on dagobah and he instructs them what to do with leia. And throughout the scene yoda is checking out his new shite hole he is living in. Damn the jedi temple was nice man, now he's in a swamp and knows he can't even train the child until or unless the force wills it.

I also dig seeing obi ride off into the twin sinset, think how powerful this will be for someone watchng in chronolical order some day. I woud dare say some tears will be welling up.

[NorthernStar]

Interesting spoiler, I am a little surprised to see Dagobah.

[BearaceDougie]

So by what your saying theres a possibility we'll see Dagobah... Ive always thought we'd only see space (was hoping any ways)

drops obi/luke off
discusses things with bail near dagobah
yoda gets off
bail goes to see Queen

[BearaceDougie]

doesnt that pretty much screw up the "12 Planet" thing?
but i dont want to go into that arguement again

[robbie_20002002]

I wouldn't worry about whether ROTS will have 12, 13 or 14 planets. The exact number of planets isn't going to have a massive impact on the film. It would seem the end of ROTS will be a montage in itself. Obi-Wan on Tatooine, Yoda on Dagobah, Leia on Alderaan and finally Vader on a Star Destroyer bridge?

[vanillazinger]

Wow, MF is back. Cool.

Interesting spoiler, I am a little surprised to see Dagobah.

Me, too. Sounds like Lucas is going for the full "everyone to their marks" montage. A little obvious, but workable.

I always thought eopies looked dumb. Not too happy with that. The Alderaan scene sounds nifty.

[pjvader]

obi wan riding off into the sunset is a nice image i did think he would be walking away towards the sunset with his hood up (alwqys thought he would have his hood up as they would have shot the footage whilst in tunisia for clones and would have no idea on matching the ep3 hair-do!)
but the riding is anice touch hopefully it is better than the "last crusade" off int the sunset shot, it always niggles me that they dont ride symettrically to the sun, the shot composition would have looked 100 times better! sorry having a nerdy moment there!

[E_CHU_TA!]

The last image of Obi-Wan is of him riding off into twin suns settling across the Jundtland Wastes on the back of an Eeopie.

In addition to the sundry other stories/films that end in this manner, I suspect that GL’s main influence for the Eopie scene is Shane. That film ends poignantly with a dying Shane ambling-off on horseback into a mountain range at sunset. Eopies have a deliberate gait, which (now that I think about it) remind me of Shane’s slow trotting horse.

[rhonderoo]

This will be so sad.

I guess from what I understand, this will just be Obi's and Yoda's last scene, but the SD and funeral take place after?

[stan Marsh]

This will be so sad.

I guess from what I understand, this will just be Obi's and Yoda's last scene, but the SD and funeral take place after?

There is good argument for it to end a number of ways. either with the jedi fading out into the sunset just as their order has, or with vader, tark, and palp watching the original DS and in full power just as the sith are.

[stan Marsh]

I don't think they are all on dagobah.
Yoda is on dagobah but the queen is on Alderaan, I think/.

yeah i guess this is the ending montage.... que south parks sports training montage song

[stan Marsh]

que south parks sports training montage song

The hours approaching, just give it your best
You got to reach your prime.
That’s when you need to put yourself to the test,
And show us a passage of time,
Were going to need a montage (montage)
Oh it takes a montage (montage)

Sure a lot of things happing at once,
With mind, everyone what’s going on (what’s going on?)
And when every shot you show a little improvement
Just Show it or it will take to long
that’s called a montage (montage)
Oh we want montage (montage)

Always fade out in a montage,
If you fade out, it seem like more time
Has passed in a montage,
Montage

sweet thanks bro

[Obi]

Wow. I wonder where Yoda gets his new digs from. Does he make it himself, or is it already there. Interesting about the Jedi going into exile. They were all high and mighty, livin in luxury, and now they must hide in crappy out of the way places. I would say thats almost Christian like, they are paying for their sins. That must have been a long 20 years waiting for the will of the force. Talkabout waiting for a prophecy!

[Ternian]

The current cut of last scenes are:

1) Obi-Wan riding into the sunset on Tatooine.

2) Padme's funeral on Naboo.

3) Yoda's arrival on Dagobah

4) Bail's handing Leia to the Queen on Alderaan.

5) Star Destroyer Bridge.


However, this may change.

[Vrolokus]

Hmm, that's interesting. I would have thought the Obi shot would be one of the last two scenes... I mean, it makes more sense in terms of where the next three movies will go: Obi dropping off Luke and heading into the desert (since the OT is really Luke's trilogy), then Vader on the SD bridge (since the bad guys "won").

[femme01]

Is Vader's Force Fury scene just before those last scenes listed?

[Artmaul]

Fatboy, I like the way you think, but I am more of a fan of the contrapuntal tonality of the brooding and abysmal ending of Episode III with a clear contrast to the title "A New Hope."

A last image of the twins being hidden into safety or even uncertainty provides some glimpse that there is a chance of hope to overcome a tragic end.

I'd go with that last image of Vader, Palps, Tarkin, Death Star, etc. to drive that notion of doom home.

[Raz Zaphon]

"Jedi training, the sole source of self-discipline is not. When right is the time for skills to be taught, to us the living Force will bring them. Until then, wait we will, and watch, and learn."

Did that last part stick out to anyone else? The implication there is that Obi-Wan and Yoda have something to learn from Luke. Here's a crazy idea - maybe it has something to do with becoming a Force-ghost. After all, the only three Jedi to become Force-ghosts were those who had direct contact with Luke. Or perhaps what they need to 'learn' is a new means of training a Jedi, to teach them the force after they've suffered losses and made attachments, so that the mistake of how Anakin was trained could never be repeated.

[Zidious]

I assume Yoda means they will learn from the Force, not Luke.

[dcbar10der]

For the pull-a-punch semi-uplifting ending, I'd go:

Yoda on Dagobah
Padme's Funeral
Vader on Star Destroyer
Leia to Bail
Obi Wan riding into sunset.

The only caveat is, that I think a Skywalker should be in the fadeout. Gotta be either baby Luke on Tattooine or Vader on the SD to keep continuity with the other 6 movies.

[nomad]

The only caveat is, that I think a Skywalker should be in the fadeout. Gotta be either baby Luke on Tattooine or Vader on the SD to keep continuity with the other 6 movies.

for that reason vader on star destroyer should finish the film... then we have a new hope with the vader chase scene.

[limak]

you guys realize Dagobah will be totally CG.

[Zidious]

I don't care since I'm not an anti-CG bigot.

[CoGro]

I think the last shot should be vader on the star destroyer.

best way to lead into the OT.

[limak]

yea, im not against CG or anything. just that most people have an impression of Dagobah already in their head... and thats gonna change

[CoGro]

yea, im not against CG or anything. just that most people have an impression of Dagobah already in their head... and thats gonna change

no it won't.

we may not even see Degobah's surface.

[limak]

well if the spoiler is correct, we will see Dagobah. let's not try and cut everything i say into little pieces. i think a CG Dagobah would be an improvement to the original.

the imagery would be very powerful... yoda approaching his new little home in the swamp.. going from being one of the top jedi on the council to this hermit... with a lot of time to kill.

[CoGro]

well if the spoiler is correct, we will see Dagobah. let's not try and cut everything i say into little pieces. i think a CG Dagobah would be an improvement to the original.

the imagery would be very powerful... yoda approaching his new little home in the swamp.. going from being one of the top jedi on the council to this hermit... with a lot of time to kill.

I don't see the time to fit this in.

I don't see it necessary to be in the film either.

[Dogg Thang]

Well in terms of time it can be done in several seconds. Like people are saying, I imagine this will be a scene in a montage. No doubt we will hear some dialogue (possibly those convoluted Yoda words) and just get fading scenes of everyone going to their respective marks for EpIV.

Whether it's necessary or not, well I'd tend to agree with you there CoGro but it could turn out to be quite touching.

Dogg.

[Ternian]

I like the idea of the Death Star being the last thing seen. Technically, this is the major story point of ANH.


I'm liking EpIII more and more each day.

[Dogg Thang]

I don't know about the Death Star - it just seems like one of those things that might be blowing it too early chronologically. It feels new in ANH. Brand new. It's clear Han, who spends most of his time dodging the Empire, doesn't know of its existence and it would be in his best interest to know of such things.

Sure, maybe it's not technically wrong but it, like some other things being set up in Ep3, seems like the film will end feeling like it is set several days before Ep4 even though there is about 20 years or so between them. Know what I mean?

Dogg.

[Antiriad]

Bet youre right Fatboy, whilst the fans will want to end the film on Vader, the triumphant Emperor and the genesis of the Death Star, Lucas will want to dwell on the future ray of hope (Luke) to tie in with the optimistic Star Wars theme - and thus the Obi Wan shot will be the last.

As whilst some may think the Death Star is the major story point of ANH its actually Luke - he is the subject matter of the films title after all. I wouldnt be suprised if the order remains the same otherwise to contrast Anakin at his lowest point to Luke his only hope of redemption.

Padme's Funeral
Yoda on Dagobah
Leia to Bail
Vader on Star Destroyer
Obi Wan riding into sunset.

[Rogue_Six]

the very last shot would have to be Owen, Beru and little Luke.

and none of these spoilers really clear up the Owen & Beru angle... I'd like to know exactly how / why Luke ends up with them and why Owen feels the way he feels about Ben & Vader. I mean, obviously a lot could be alluded to without having it explained on screen, but I'm just curious how it will end up playing out.

[Doggy Dog]

the very last shot would have to be Owen, Beru and little Luke.

and none of these spoilers really clear up the Owen & Beru angle... I'd like to know exactly how / why Luke ends up with them and why Owen feels the way he feels about Ben & Vader. I mean, obviously a lot could be infered without having it explained on screen, but I'm just curious how it will end up playing out.

The Owen and Beru angle is one you are going to have to chalk up to bad thinking on Lucas part, I know alot of people dont like to kick the "maker" but his imagination is far better than his story writing. This would have been an incredibly easy tactic to swing, Owen could have been one of Anakins little friends there in the first movie (not to mention they should have been older) his father could have been a freeman who was looking to secure Shmi's freedom from the outset. Then when he returns years later in AOTC he discovers his mother has been watching his once best friend in a way that he lost out on, creates a little necessary tension. But in the for the most part they are happy to see each other, until Anakin starts displaying some of his worse traits...but then again that would take good writing too. Long story short, I always thought the best tact would be that the story arc would have been turned up a notch. In what was TPM Anakin should have already been a teen, and showing both incredible potential for selflessness, but also selfishness. By the end of the movie the Clone Wars should have been underway in that we discover the clones are being made...no Maul, Dooku from the start and he kills his former Padawan Qui-Gon Jinn. By episode 2 Anakin is now in his early twenties been trained by Obi-Wan and much of what transpires is largely the same as AOTC. Twist being the Clone Wars have begun, Anakin is still a Padawan, but also an incredible Warrior. When the dreams intensify about his mother, he leaves the Jedi and the Republic to go home, and at the end of the movie Obi-Wan goes to him but although his mother is dead, he is sick of the politics and bloodshed and feels his desire as a young teen to leave Tatooine was a misguided fairy tale. As ROTS begins it is another three years into the future, and several Jedi and politicians have convinced Padme to return from Tatooine to help in a major political struggle to the anger of Anakin. In the process she is brought into danger, which forces Obi-Wan to face his former Padawan with the grave news. Anakin leaves with Obi-Wan...and the rest as they say is history. before the credits role on ROTS Obi is walking into the Lars homestead with Luke telling Owen that his best friend and step brother has well you know...

[VT-16]

It's clear Han, who spends most of his time dodging the Empire, doesn't know of its existence and it would be in his best interest to know of such things.

Why? He´s just a smuggler, why would he have any need for that kind of info? Most military secrets here on Earth manage to stay secrets, and there´s plenty of smugglers here as well.

The whole Owen and Beru-thing is a walk in the park, all you need is Owen shouting and complaining about a total stranger handing them his step-brother´s kid, the kid of a man he hardly knew, who ran off to fight and get himself killed (or whatever Obi-Wan tells him), and you´ve done it. A solid connection to the last film and the next film and it would take a maximum of 10 seconds of dialogue. Even if they somehow don´t do that, you can still infer from the dialogue in ANH, that the whole deal with Obi-Wan didn´t go too well.

[Antiriad]

the very last shot would have to be Owen, Beru and little Luke.

and none of these spoilers really clear up the Owen & Beru angle... I'd like to know exactly how / why Luke ends up with them and why Owen feels the way he feels about Ben & Vader. I mean, obviously a lot could be infered without having it explained on screen, but I'm just curious how it will end up playing out.

Whose to say that this doesnt develop between Ep III and IV? Id be surprised if Obi Wan didnt visit the Lars every now and again to check up on them. Its obvious that Luke know who he is so he must have.

You would imagine that by Obi Wan letting Owen know that the dreaded Darth Vader theybe been hearing about in the news once was Anakin it would all kick off from there.

I mean, if your were an adopted parent who knew your childs natural father had turned into a psychopathic dictator and the guy apparently partly responsible (and those like him) is this plum spoken bearded gentleman standing beside you, you too would want to keep him away and protect the child from ending up the same way.

[Dogg Thang]

Yep, I think your last sentence there hit it on the head perfectly.

Dogg.

[stan Marsh]

the plans for the death star were already shown in ep 2 so it isn't like it is that fresh in ANH. It had to take 20+ years to build so it would make sense to see a shell or skeleton of it by then end of 3. The techno union has probably been crankin on the bitch throuought the entire clone wars.

either way I think vader and palps are the last scene wether there is a death start with them or not

[CoGro]

Another thing to consider...will Vader and Palps be on an Imperial class star destroyer or ones seen earlier in the film?

Will Imperial Tie Fighters be seen streaking past those star destroyers, or will they be other fighters?

I'm curious to see the state of Imperial technology at the end of ROTS.

[Jackie Estacado]

I don't know about the Death Star - it just seems like one of those things that might be blowing it too early chronologically. It feels new in ANH. Brand new. It's clear Han, who spends most of his time dodging the Empire, doesn't know of its existence and it would be in his best interest to know of such things.

Dogg.

Excellent point there Dogg, especially the "It feels new in ANH". I agree whole heartedly on that.

[SI]

it's not stated explicably that's it's new, just that the Empire has never tested it's destructive firepower (blowing up planets) before.

[Dogg Thang]

And that's why I said it 'feels new' rather than 'they say it's new'. All implications are that it it relatively new as far as I can see. Because it's not actually said, the door is open for it being any age of course but it always felt to me, from the perspectives of both the Rebels and Imperials, that it is a new structure. I realise that's just my perception of the movie.

Dogg.

[Rogue_Six]

the very last shot would have to be Owen, Beru and little Luke.

and none of these spoilers really clear up the Owen & Beru angle... I'd like to know exactly how / why Luke ends up with them and why Owen feels the way he feels about Ben & Vader. I mean, obviously a lot could be infered without having it explained on screen, but I'm just curious how it will end up playing out.

Whose to say that this doesnt develop between Ep III and IV? Id be surprised if Obi Wan didnt visit the Lars every now and again to check up on them. Its obvious that Luke know who he is so he must have.

You would imagine that by Obi Wan letting Owen know that the dreaded Darth Vader theybe been hearing about in the news once was Anakin it would all kick off from there.

I mean, if your were an adopted parent who knew your childs natural father had turned into a psychopathic dictator and the guy apparently partly responsible (and those like him) is this plum spoken bearded gentleman standing beside you, you too would want to keep him away and protect the child from ending up the same way.

Right - I don't necessarily disagree with you. That's why I said that a lot of the situation could be infered without having it explained on screen.

However, up to the end of AOTC, neither Ben nor Yoda have met and (I guess we can assume) know nothing of the Lars family. How & why exactly do they make the choice to place Luke with them? Is it by the request of Padme? Does Owen have some sort of interaction with Ben in ROTS where they would be introduced prior to him bringing Luke? Why did they make this choice? That's what I'd like to hear in a spy report. Again, it may be left to us to infer the reasons - I'd just like to know if we'll actually end up seeing - or being told the reason - on screen?

Same thing goes for Owen's feelings towards Anakin / Vader. I mean, yeah - like you said, if I knew that my adoptive kid's parent was a psychopath, I'd try to shield them from that. However, I'm curious to know if we'll see anything on screen that will actually cause Owen to change his feelings towards Anakin? I mean, at the end of AOTC, so far as we know Owen knows nothing of the Tusken slaughter. What's more, Owen doesn't seem to dislike Anakin. Why do his feelings change? Will we see something in ROTS, or will it be left to us to figure out?

Same thing goes for Ben, too. Again, Owen Lars has never met Ben up to the end of AOTC. Why does he think he's a crazy old hermit? Are we to assume something happens in ROTS to make him feel that way, or will it be left for us to figure out, like you say? Why does Ben tell Luke that Anakin should have not gotten involved? We saw nothing in AOTC to indicate that he felt that way (I mean, hell - Anakin just left the planet without so much as saying good bye! Maybe Owen was pissed for that reason alone! )

Again, I agree with you that a lot of this could be figured out on our own without seeing it on screen. I'm not advocating a fan-boy rewrite of the script or anything. I'm just curious as to whether we'll actually see any of this stuff on screen in ROTS. No spy report I've seen has touched on any of this.

[Dogg Thang]

Why does he think he's a crazy old hermit?

This, like in that Yoda debate, is something that is said but not meant. Owen is trying to put Luke off, discrediting Ben, because he is afraid that Luke will follow in his father's footsteps. I don't think that it is Owen's personal belief that Ben is crazy.

Very few characters in SW (and any other films) say what they really feel - it's the difference between subtext and plain text.

Dogg.