Web Doc #07

[PTGrievous]

Heh, had a feeling this one was boring.

[foxbatkllr]

Boring? This was perhaps the best one yet. I loved it. Lots of eye candy and it was great to see Bruce Spence's character. He looks creepy. I love it.

[PTGrievous]

Boring? This was perhaps the best one yet. I loved it. Lots of eye candy and it was great to see Bruce Spence's character. He looks creepy. I love it.

Yeah, that was BEFORE I saw it!
I usually assume all costume related things to be boring.

Tion Meddon rocks!

[Jedi Master Matt]

Just got to check it out.

It looks like Obi-Wan has received quite a promotion... he's seated in the Jedi Council at the very last shot of the video.

It looks like they are setting everyone in place, so I doubt that Ewan was just resting between takes.

Plus, Bruce Spence's character's race looks pretty cool. Have we ever 100% nailed down what he does. Is it Utapau and helping Obi-Wan back to Coruscant after the clones turn or something else?

[vanillazinger]

Was that Palpatine in a goatee? If so, sweeeet.

[Hade]

Obi-Wan on the Jedi Council.
Obi-Wan sent by the Jedi Council to find Grievous.

Hmmm...

[Ktulu]

What's cooler than cool... webdoc #7

[Darth Duster]

Woah, Tion Meddon looks badass
That webdoc was really worth the wait.
Noticed Padmé's costume at 5:18?? I wonder where she's going to wear that....

[Ternian]

Tion MEDON looks totally cool. Very Nosferatu...(and a non-CGI alien. YAY!)

Padme's "peacock dress" looks much better in full colour and I love the hue of the late evening in Palps office - and when she is in the office she doesn't look pleased with what the Chancellor has to say...

The Senators look fucking awesome. Giddean Danu fucking ROCKS! How tall is that dude?! New blue Senator was present too - looks like Orn Free Taa's younger sister.

And Jar Jar...his costume looks regal as! YEE HAA!

Worst costume was Padme's brown stretch pants outfit...YUCK. She looks like a westie (SI, IU - ). Terrible...

In total, this was the best Doco so far!

[Jason@Star-Wars.net]

Is Obi-Wan Kenobi on the Jedi Council now? Or did Ewan McGregor decide to sit down inbetween takes?

-Jason

[vanillazinger]

Ian just came in for costume fitting. Palpy is not going to have a goatee in the film.

Bummer. I really need to hook some headphones to my PC so I can get sound again.

[Ewok_Pudu]

Cool stuff. Nosferatu definitely is who shares the most striking resemblance to Tion Meddon.

Makes me scratch my head about what my contact meant when they said "mummy"

Maybe it was the baldness and grey skin tone? :P

http://www.linkandpinhobbies.com/graphics/SD_mummy.jpg

One thing irritates me about the praise lavished over Trisha Biggar: Her job is to take the already approved art department images that George hands her and actually physically make the costumes. She does a great job of overseeing that. But calling her Costume DESIGNER is a big mistake in my opinion in that it completely glosses over and underplays the people responsible for actually designing those amazing costumes.

I never heard that Obi was on the council, but that could tie into what Pablo hinted about certain characters getting "promoted" between films. Having Ani be a full knight and Obi on the council now would be cool to see. But I just as easily think Ewan might be resting in the chair between takes....

[vanillazinger]

This is the iconic image I believe was the alleged inspiration:

http://www.moviegoods.com

I can see the similarities. The Shrek Nosferatu echoes in the clothes are pretty nifty, too. Now if they place him in a German Expressionist setting, the tableau will be complete.

[Zidious]

But calling her Costume DESIGNER is a big mistake in my opinion in that it completely glosses over and underplays the people responsible for actually designing those amazing costumes.

I had always assumed that the artists drawing the costumes don't know anything about clothing. I figured they are just drawing concept art like all the other concept art. Then Trisha has the difficult job of actually making something a person can wear. Is that not correct?

[GFETT]

Very cool Web-Doc!

I love seeing Palpatine in Imperial Red!

[Evil_Elvis]

Cool Documentary, I can see a very obvious link from Bela Lugosi's type of characters to Tion Medon. I'm not too sure of his costume but based on looks alone Bruce Spence and his helpful alien have just skipped near the top of my favourite figures (to come, obviously)

Apart from Tion Medon, it's always nice to see Ian McDiarmid, the guy just screams consumate professional. I can't wait to see him on screen in Ep3, especially if this is the one he gets to cut loose as Palpatine.

[Ternian]

I love how Padme's costume changes from Blue to Red....a nice nod to the themes of the PT.

[Lord Seafood]

You know what bugs me about the costumes? None of them are even remotely "normal" - absolutely every character in the prequels has a grand, exotic costume with huge collars, shoulder pads, huge billowing sleeves and puffy pants... I mean, just because it's "sci-fi" doesn't mean everyone on screen has to look totally exotic and weird. I find it really distracting and a bit too Farscape or Babylon 5.
I mean, the reason people loved the original SW movies was because it looked "real"... check out the aliens in the Cantina - they have weird heads, but they just wear robes and a belt. Same with the dignitaries and Rebel leaders, very simple costumes that appeared to be more "realistic" because you could imagine getting around and doing their job in them.
Now we have these ridiculous costumes that look completely impractical!

[Zidious]

You know what bugs me...

You know what bugs me? Ridiculous simplification.

None of them are even remotely "normal"

BTH pics:
Lovely Assistant
Sleepless Knight
Home Beru

I'd even include this one:
An Unhooded Fang

and Bail in the Set Diary A Busy Day for Bail

[Jason@Star-Wars.net]

When you see Anakin and his mother in the first one, they are dressed out of need. The clothes make sense. As do all of the Jedi costumes. All the cats that in the cantina are poor drunks and pirates so they dress down. The night club in Episode 2 is a nightclub, so people dress nicely there.

I don't know, it just seems to make sense that senators and Royalty are the richest people in the galaxy so dress very grand. If you're the head of a planet, your going to be dressed damned good. I don't think they broke any form with the costumes.

The costumes just reflect that it is a different time and place then the one from the original films. It probably has to do with the fact that we only saw people who were at war in 4, 5, and 6, but in this one we see the politcal side. Now, I'm not saying which is cooler. I'm just saying that considering where it takes place, it makes sense.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer the Han Solo "I'm a cowboy" costume to the Bail Organa shoulder-padded "Delta Burke of Designing Women" costume any day.

I dig the pilots costumes from Episode 1 as much as the X-Wing jumpsuits from Episode 4. Palptines new duds are pretty rad as well. That evil shmuck!


-Jason

[Zidious]

I don't suffer fools gladly.

I think I'd count this BTH as well Freedom's Architect

[Zidious]

I still haven't figured out what your riled up about.

This kind of hyperbole is tiring: "None of them are even remotely "normal" - absolutely every character..."

I provided actual examples that counter that claim so people can look for themselves. I'd be interested to know if anyone thinks the examples I gave "don't look remotely normal".

[Lord Seafood]

I don't suffer fools gladly.

I think I'd count this BTH as well Freedom's Architect

For fuck's sake, it's only my opinion. If you don't like it, ignore it. Don't call me a fool for not sharing the same opinion as you. I don't like the costumes. Can you handle that? *I* DON'T LIKE THE COSTUMES.
Yes, I wish they were more NORMAL more believable costumes, and not these Circus performer costumes. You don't have to start posting examples of prequel costumes to try and change my mind.

Every time you post in this forum all you seem to do is furiously defend the prequels when someone criticises them - well, wake up and smell the coffee because this isn't TF.N and some people here are Star Wars fans who enjoy the prequels but DON'T like EVERYTHING about them! Grrr.

[Zidious]

Hmmm...perhaps hemingway's message should be directed towards you. I'm attempting to discuss actual examples.

...for not sharing the same opinion as you.

I didn't give that as a reason.

...to try and change my mind.

I didn't say I was trying to do that. I countered your absolute claim, which you have now backed off of.

Every time you post in this forum all you seem to do is furiously defend the prequels when someone criticises them...

You have great difficulty dealing with the logic of my arguments and evidence, so you completely avoid them and go with this stuff instead. That's very TF.N-like.

[Ternian]

I understand what Lord Seaford means. I hated Beru's hair in AotC - it was way too complicated for Tatooine.

The whole point of the PT is to show a galaxy in it's golden age, like Rome before it fell apart.

I would have expected that by EpIII, the end of the Clone Wars, that Padme's outfits wouldn't be so wildly exotic still. I would have thought that the had become more simplified... If I was one of the starving worlds, I'd be asking questions about the elaborateness of Senator Amidala's wardrobe.

So, I agree in part with LS.

[vanillazinger]

I liked Padme's outfits in the web doc. The one with the boots that showed her belly was nice in its simplicity. I really like the coat she wears with the "dreads," and the headpiece is nifty, too. Was that blue patterned gown at the start a Padme costume? I don't have speakers on this computer at the moment, so I couldn't hear if they said. But that one was also quite beautiful.

Tion Meddon looks great. Mon Mothma looks nice. Palps and Bail look like Palps and Bail, spiffy tailored fantasy bureaucrats. I always liked the Cloud City costumes and we seem to be moving in that direction a bit.

Can't recall anything that I actively dislike so far, costume-wise.

[dylan]

I dig the pilots costumes from Episode 1 as much as the X-Wing jumpsuits from Episode 4.

Which are a throw back to WWI pilot suits - long waisted leather jacket and leather helmet. X-Wing gear is sooo VietNam.

[Vanda]

It looks like Obi-Wan has received quite a promotion... he's seated in the Jedi Council at the very last shot of the video.

It looks like they are setting everyone in place, so I doubt that Ewan was just resting between takes.

The chair that Ewan is in was Saesee Tiin's in Episode I and Episode II, and Saesee is confirmed to be back by the OS's cast list. Obi's not on the Council. Just taking a rest between takes in Saesee's hologrammed-to-be seat.

[HookLineAndSinker]

The chair that Ewan is in was Saesee Tiin's in Episode I and Episode II, and Saesee is confirmed to be back by the OS's cast list. Obi's not on the Council. Just taking a rest between takes in Saesee's hologrammed-to-be seat.

I must disagree with you here.

In the set diary entitled "Council in Session," it said "Anakin enters the Council Chambers." Yet Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan Kenobi is on set that day. It also says Mace Windu, Ki-Adi-Mundi, Plo Koon, Saesee Tiin, Stass Allie, and Agen Kolar were physically present for filming that day. Then it says that ONLY Ki-Adi-Mundi and Plo Koon would be in hologram form. Not Saesee Tiin.

Of course Yoda would be added via computer animation. So we had seven council members. Then in post production Pablo said that Oppo Rancisis, Even Piell, Kit Fisto, and Pablo-Jill had been added to the council and that Even Piell would be there via hologram also.

So we had 11 council members.


Now at the end of this web doc you can see...

Seat #1 - Empty though Plo Koon will sit there later.
Seat #2 - Mace Windu
Seat #3 - Empty though Yoda will sit there later
Seat #4 - Empty though Ki-Adi-Mundi will sit there later.
Seat #5 - Obi-Wan Kenobi though it was usually Saesee Tiins seat
Seat #6 - Agen Kolar
Seat #7 - Empty though it's usually Even Piell's seat.
Seat #8 - Cannot see. But it's off camera to the left. Oppo Rancisis's usual Seat.
Seat #9 - You can see the feet of someone sitting in the chair. Since Saesee Tiin is nowhere to be seen, odds are it's him. The makeup artist sitting in front of it kinda gives him away also.
Seat #10 - Stass Allie
Seat #11 - Empty though Kit Fisto or Pablo-Jill will fill it later
Seat #12 - Empty though Kit Fisto or Pablo-Jill will fill it later


The main point is why Saesee Tiin wasn't sitting in his normal chair? If Obi-Wan was on the council, they would put him in Saesee Tiins seat so that he could be next to Ki-Adi-Mundi, Yoda, Mace Windu, and Plo Koon. The Jedi with speaking roles.

Not to mention the quote where Pablo Hidalgo says Obi-Wans skills have improved since AOTC and he is noticably higher in the Jedi Hierarchy. [/quote]

[Ewok_Pudu]

Yeah, sounds like Obi is on the council. I like this as it shows how his ideals were different than his master Qui Gon who always had refused a seat on the council.

I'm wondering though, as the council looks pretty sharp and clean in those images.... were there 2 different phases of council sets made? One "before" the attack there, one after? And we are seeing a shot from before? Or were the dings and scratches too subtle to see? hmmm...

from what I remember of that set diary, it was during the initial meeting there that Pablo talked about the wear and tear, but I can't remember...

[Vanda]

Not to mention the quote where Pablo Hidalgo says Obi-Wans skills have improved since AOTC and he is noticably higher in the Jedi Hierarchy.

Not that I don't believe you, but I'd like to read that quote... was it in Pablo's Hyperspace Q&A?

If Obi-Wan is indeed on the Council, that would create more friction between him and Anakin. We've already heard that Anakin is frustrated at the Council for overlooking his acheivements in the battle, and Palpatine feeds that by making him his bodyguard.

Imagine if Anakin was there in the Council and was expecting to be sent after Grievous to stop him and then Obi-Wan said "No, I'll handle it" and then left without him. I'd be pretty peeved if I were Anakin too.


I still don't see this happening (yet), but I wouldn't be averse to it if it did. Seems like a fitting place for Obi-Wan.

in post production Pablo said that Oppo Rancisis, Even Piell, Kit Fisto, and Pablo-Jill had been added to the council and that Even Piell would be there via hologram also.

Was this in a postnotes?

[Vanda]

were there 2 different phases of council sets made? One "before" the attack there, one after? And we are seeing a shot from before? Or were the dings and scratches too subtle to see? hmmm...

from what I remember of that set diary, it was during the initial meeting there that Pablo talked about the wear and tear, but I can't remember...

From the Set Diary:

Exploring the Jedi Council chambers reveals subtle hints as to the state of the galaxy. What was a polished floor in Episode I now has visible scuff marks and wear along the seams. The chairs of the council have slight abrasions on them, giving an almost subconscious cue that the order has bigger things to worry about than tipping the housecleaners.

That doesn't necessarily mean there was an attack there, I don't think. Unless I missed something...?

[Zidious]

but I'd like to read that quote

Pablo chat, 9/11/03, page 3

[Vanda]

Thanks Darth_Zidious. Very interesting.

[HookLineAndSinker]

Was this in a postnotes?

Actually the Even Piell, Oppo Rancisis, Kit Fisto, and Pablo-Jill stuff was spread out over a couple of post notes.

I think first he said Pablo-Jill was on the council. Then in another post note he said it looked as though Even Piell and Oppo Rancisis had been added back to the council. Then in another update he said Even Piell would be there via hologram like Ki and Plo and then he finally said Kit Fisto has also been added to the council.

For the last month I had been trying to get Pablo H to answer a question about who the 12th member of the Council would be in EP3. But I guess we know now.

[Vanda]

LOL

Good detecting, Stash... I'd have to say you're on the money there.

This could possibly mean that we'll actually SEE Obi-Wan get promoted to the Council (perhaps over Anakin???) during the movie, since Shaak Ti dies at the beginning. Cool.

[Vanda]

Check this out...

From Postnotes "VFX Shorthand:"

In CJC shots --- the Jedi Council scene -- there are a few times when the camera looks at Mace or Obi-Wan, and even though the angle shows no window, the ever-present blue is reflecting on the silvery walls. ILM needs to paint out such reflections.

If Obi-Wan was standing in the middle of the council, there are very few, if any, angles of him that wouldn't have a window in them.

Gee... I guess that must mean he's sitting down...

[Zidious]

There are actually shots of Obi-Wan in TPM where there is no window in the shot. But I agree it is more likely he is sitting down.

[Vanda]

There are actually shots of Obi-Wan in TPM where there is no window in the shot. But I agree it is more likely he is sitting down.

Yeah, now that you mention it I recall the shot of him as he was leaving but Qui-Gon stayed... Obi-Wan was in front of the door, not a window.

But like you said, it's way more likely that he's sitting.

[SI]

So Obi-Wan is a Jedi Master....


also, Anakin would never have been in mind for the Council position over Obi-Wan anyway.

[Hade]

If Obi-Wan is indeed on the Council, that would create more friction between him and Anakin. We've already heard that Anakin is frustrated at the Council for overlooking his acheivements in the battle, and Palpatine feeds that by making him his bodyguard.

Imagine if Anakin was there in the Council and was expecting to be sent after Grievous to stop him and then Obi-Wan said "No, I'll handle it" and then left without him. I'd be pretty peeved if I were Anakin too.

Exactly.

That's what I meant with this post.

Obi-Wan on the Jedi Council.
Obi-Wan sent by the Jedi Council to find Grievous.

Hmmm...

In my opinion, the Jedi are pretty much asking for it.

[Hade]

This could possibly mean that we'll actually SEE Obi-Wan get promoted to the Council (perhaps over Anakin???) during the movie, since Shaak Ti dies at the beginning. Cool.

Don't forget someone has to replace Coleman Trebor as well. And didn't Depa Billiba die during the early fighting of the Clone Wars (post Geonosis) in an EU novel?

So Obi-Wan is a Jedi Master....

also, Anakin would never have been in mind for the Council position over Obi-Wan anyway.

Obi has about 25 years more experience than Ani.

I'll agree that Anakin shouldn't be on the Council for quite some time.

However, should Obi-Wan get the plum assignment of going after Grievous?

As a Council member, maybe he should push for Anakin to be given the task as he is more than capable.

My feeling is that one is a Council member or a field operative, not both. Only during serious problems (Clone Wars) should Council members be in harm's way.

And if the Council sends Kenobi after Grievous, and Kenobi himself sits on that Council, isn't that a conflict of interest?

It seems the Jedi do everything in their power to piss this kid off.

[Ternian]

As far as Anakin's concerned, Obi-Wan failed in his mission to save the Chancellor and it was Anakin who should be recognised for it...



Bwahahahaha.

[Hade]

As far as Anakin's concerned, Obi-Wan failed in his mission to save the Chancellor and it was Anakin who should be recognised for it...

Bwahahahaha.

And he’d be right.

Not only that, the kid saves Obi-Wan at least twice on that mission by my reckoning.

[Vanda]

also, Anakin would never have been in mind for the Council position over Obi-Wan anyway.

Oh agreed. But that certainly doesn't mean that Anakin can't THINK he's in line for a promotion. Especially when HE was the hero that saved the day in the opening battle, not Obi-Wan.

[Vanda]

Don't forget someone has to replace Coleman Trebor as well. And didn't Depa Billiba die during the early fighting of the Clone Wars (post Geonosis) in an EU novel?

As for Depa, I don't know... but Coleman died in AOTC. I would assume they've filled his spot since then. And since we know from Pabs that Kit Fisto is now a Council member, as is Pablo-Jill, it seems likely that at least Coleman's, if not Depa's as well, spots are now taken.

My feeling is that one is a Council member or a field operative, not both. Only during serious problems (Clone Wars) should Council members be in harm's way.

Yeah, that's kind of the feeling I have too. But as others have said (on various boards) Obi-Wan survived a previous meeting with GG. He survived meeting Dooku, he survived against Maul, and killed him. He seems to be the best choice to destroy the best Jedi Killer known thus far.

It seems the Jedi do everything in their power to piss this kid off.

Amen to that. The Jedi got what was coming to them.

[DoubleSith]

Depa's not dead, she went insane.

[HookLineAndSinker]

Jedi Council in TPM

Seat #1 Plo Koon
Seat #2 Mace Windu
Seat #3 Yoda
Seat #4 Ki-Adi-Mundi
Seat #5 Saesee Tiin
Seat #6 Yaddle
Seat #7 Even Piell
Seat #8 Oppo Rancisis
Seat #9 Adi Gallia
Seat #10 Yarael Poof
Seat #11 Eeth Koth
Seat #12 Depa Billaba


Jedi Council in AOTC

Seat #1 Plo Koon via stock footage from TPM
Seat #2 Mace Windu
Seat #3 Yoda via CGI
Seat #4 Ki-Adi-Mundi via stock footage from TPM
Seat #5 Saesee Tiin via stock footage from TPM
Seat #6 Shaak Ti (inserted in post production)
Seat #7 Even Piell via stock footage from TPM
Seat #8 Oppo Rancisis via stock footage from TPM and CGI
Seat #9 Adi Gallia via stock footage from TPM
Seat #10 Coleman Trebor via CGI
Seat #11 Eeth Koth via stock footage from TPM
Seat #12 Depa Billaba via stock footage from TPM


Jedi Council in EP3

Seat #1 Plo Koon via hologram according to Pablo
Seat #2 Mace Windu
Seat #3 Yoda via CGI
Seat #4 Ki-Adi-Mundi via hologram according to Pablo
Seat #5 Obi-Wan Kenobi?
Seat #6 Agen Kolar
Seat #7 Even Piell via hologram and stock footage from TPM
Seat #8 Oppo Rancisis via stock footage from TPM and CGI
Seat #9 Saesee Tiin (in the webdoc, someone sits to the left of Allie)
Seat #10 Stass Allie
Seat #11 Pablo-Jill via CGI? Kit Fisto added in Post Production?
Seat #12 Kit Fisto added in Post Production? Pablo-Jill via CGI?

[Hade]

Jedi Council in EP3

Seat #1 Plo Koon via hologram according to Pablo
Seat #2 Mace Windu
Seat #3 Yoda via CGI
Seat #4 Ki-Adi-Mundi via hologram according to Pablo
Seat #5 Obi-Wan Kenobi?
Seat #6 Agen Kolar
Seat #7 Even Piell via hologram and stock footage from TPM
Seat #8 Oppo Rancisis via stock footage from TPM and CGI
Seat #9 Saesee Tiin (in the webdoc, someone sits to the left of Allie)
Seat #10 Stass Allie
Seat #11 Pablo-Jill via CGI? Kit Fisto added in Post Production?
Seat #12 Kit Fisto added in Post Production? Pablo-Jill via CGI?

Where's Eeth Koth and Adi Gallia?

I hate when characters just disappear.

It's like Dorme.

Bring Rose back during reshoots.

She's done with Troy.

[SI]

we have Motee and Elle now, Tern's concubines.