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Post Posted: October 4th 2005 12:09 am
 

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Thanks ThunderCracker.

That article from the Homing Beacon is quite interesting. The reshoots were mentionned in the "Making Of" book, where Mc Diarmid was reported to say that it was much easier for Hayden to come later in the fight.


Pablo seems to imply that Sidious clearly threw the fight in the original version, but that if he did in the finished version then he relied a lot on Anakin's timing ... That's most interesting. Since most of us will accept the fact that Sidious can sense Anakin's presence and feelings from a distance, I'd say he throws the fight just as Anakin is about to enter the office. That isn't much of a stretch.

I had my doubts until now, but Pablo's comments have helped me make up my mind. Sidious is faking and definitely setting a trap (IMHO).


Can't wait to read what Darth First has to say about all this ...


Post Posted: October 4th 2005 6:19 am
 
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Jordan wrote:
Originally as it was scripted, Anakin was present when Mace and the Posse came to arrest him. Anakin did watch the fight before making his choice. Lucas, in editing, decided to change that all around so he reshot most of it, especially the parts with Anakin....


I don't think anything was reshot except for the beginning (Palpatine and his lightsaber) and end of the fight (Mace kicks Palpatine) and Anakin walking into the office. Palpatine is still using Anakin's lightsaber the entire fight and Anakin was simply edited out of the scene. That footage from the Sidious webdoc is still sort of intact in the film, it's just cropped and cut up.

But I agree that it looked much better on the video village than in the film. It had a very OT feel to it that the other duels lacked.


Post Posted: October 4th 2005 8:04 am
 

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I was proberly overspoilt but I must say I was a little disappointed by Mace vs Palpatine. After reading SLJ go on for months about his 'magical death' and the hundreds of moves he had to learn and the distance the fight covered I guess I was expecting a gem of a lightsaber battle. The fight itself was ok, I was just expecting MUCH more.
The short fight from the Sidious web doc looks AWESOME..........


Post Posted: October 4th 2005 10:41 am
 

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Those Mace vs. Palp shots seem to concentrate more on their facial expressions then their actual moves. A bit like that AOTC Dooku vs. Anakin fight.


Post Posted: October 4th 2005 11:42 am
 

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Thundercracker wrote:
Yeah, it's from the Sidious webdoc, I just added in some lightsabers. I like the way that portion of the fight in the corridor is shown in the raw footage better than way Lucas edited it in the film.


I'm with you 100%. I think it looks better as well and that's why I was so intrigued by it. Thanks. :heavymetal:


Post Posted: October 4th 2005 3:26 pm
 
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ETAndElliot4Ever wrote:
That footage from the Sidious webdoc is still sort of intact in the film, it's just cropped and cut up.


Exactly. George used jumps cuts again for the corridor segment of the fight and there's certainly a few used in the office portion as well. It's great when there's BTS footage to reference so we can see more how Nick Gillard intended it rather than how it was edited for film. I've also done some stuff like this for the AOTC duel using what little unused footage has surfaced so far for it. Lucas' lightsaber duel editing has become one of my pet peeves. :whateva:

Sorry the thread got derailed because of my avatar. :oops:


Post Posted: October 4th 2005 8:01 pm
 
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DarthFirst just contacted me to apologise for not being here and won't be able to answer the DVD questions "for at least a few more days."

DarthFirst wrote:
let everyone know i'll be back soon as I can, but there's nothing exciting to report.


Post Posted: October 4th 2005 8:47 pm
 
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Wow, thank God they made those changes to the story [altho I too agree that the footage from the webdoc looks nicer, longer shot, uninterrupted, very good]. Anakin just sitting there and watching the fight is mad lame.

This movie really took shape in post-production, and frankly, the shooting script must've been pretty mediocre. Without the Anakin-Padme window scene, without Anakin coming in mid-duel, (and a bunch of other changes I'm forgetting mentioned in the making of book), Anakin's turn to the dark side pretty much would've sucked!


Post Posted: October 5th 2005 12:02 am
 

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let everyone know i'll be back soon as I can, but there's nothing exciting to report.


Darth First's enthusiasm brings warm feelings to my heart ...
Could he be more disapointed with that DVD ?


Post Posted: October 5th 2005 5:32 am
 

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NoCloneTheories wrote:
It's not about what anyone is owed. I said it is a ridiculous amount of time to take, and it is.

Hardcore Legend wrote:
Why is it ridiculous? To say that, you imply that he should have posted other stuff by now, and to not do it is wrong. The guy has a life. It's not like he has been posting other stuff and neglected other people.

If you don't like the time he's taking, wait until November.


Not only that but DF didn't have to give us any screen caps in the first place. He could have just kept it all to himself and we'd have nothing! He was nice enough to share some screen caps with us so you should be thankful that he gave us anything at all.


Post Posted: October 6th 2005 6:51 pm
 
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Okay to answer some of your questions...

As I said in my very first post, the film is the same as the theatrical cut.

The commentary is okay; much better for not having Ben Burtt whining on about sound effects over crucial scenes. Instead we have Rob Coleman and John Knoll going on about CG over crucial scenes. :o

I really feel that the cast should have input into these commentaries on the prequels; especially this one. Having Ian or Hayden or Ewan would have been fantastic. George is interesting as ever, but there's just not enough of him; there's too much emphasis on the effects IMHO.

The Sidious/Mace fight is mostly talked over by Coleman and Knoll. George does discuss briefly how the scene originally ran (and that Anakin 'turned' in the previous scene in the corridor with Palpatine). The scene was reshot as Anakin turned too quickly. No discussion about the transformation from George; it's talked over by the effects guys.

George discusses how he tried to cut the exposition scene at the end in the blockade runner where Yoda Bail and Obi Wan discuss what they're going to do. But the end was worse off without it so it went back in. He touches VERY briefly on the Jedi-retaining-identity thing, but this is referenced to Ep 4.

The Yoda/Dagobah scene on the deleted scenes disc starts as per the screengrabs. Wide shot of planet.

Yes the deleted scenes are scored with old music I think.

Dialogue of the Shaak Ti scene is in a previous post.

Am back from a lengthy work trip away from my PC, but back now so happy to answer anything else.

Oh and NoCloneTheories - some of us have lives to lead.


Seeya y'all.


Post Posted: October 6th 2005 7:04 pm
 
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DarthFirst wrote:
Am back from a lengthy work trip away from my PC, but back now so happy to answer anything else.

Seeya y'all.


:heavymetal:


Post Posted: October 6th 2005 7:05 pm
 
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DarthFirst wrote:
The Sidious/Mace fight is mostly talked over by Coleman and Knoll. George does discuss briefly how the scene originally ran (and that Anakin 'turned' in the previous scene in the corridor with Palpatine). The scene was reshot as Anakin turned too quickly. No discussion about the transformation from George; it's talked over by the effects guys.


Very, very disappointing news. I'm so sick of that. I don't give a shit about the effects! Who the fuck cares at this point? We already know how it's done!


Post Posted: October 6th 2005 7:32 pm
 
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Thanks for the info, DF. Was there anything mentioned about any scene on the audio commentary that was really standout in your opinion?


Post Posted: October 6th 2005 7:37 pm
 
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Yeah, I had a feeling that would happen. Rob Coleman can drone on and on just as much as Ben Burtt could. I don't mind hearing their thoughts on the effects but why they always choose to have it during a crucial scene when George should be commenting is ridiculous. The producer of the commetaries should know better.


So, absolutely no mention of Qui-Gon from anybody on the discs?

Does the "It's All For Real -Stunts" documentary feature a good portion of new behind the scenes footage or is it mainly just recycled stuff from the webdocs?

Have you tried entering the 1138 code that usually accesses a blooper reel or any other easter eggs?


Post Posted: October 6th 2005 8:03 pm
 
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MannyOrtez wrote:
Very, very disappointing news. I'm so sick of that. I don't give a shit about the effects! Who the fuck cares at this point? We already know how it's done!


Yeah I agree. Which is why actors should have some input. Much more interesting than Coleman droning on about CG.

ETAndElliot4Ever wrote:
Thanks for the info, DF. Was there anything mentioned about any scene on the audio commentary that was really standout in your opinion?


Mmm, not really. I guess we already know a lot so there was nothing exciting. I always enjoy what George and Rick have to say, but would be happy to forget about everyone else. It's always annoying when George goes off on an interesting tangent and then we cut to Burtt or Coleman droning on about something dull...

Thundercracker wrote:
So, absolutely no mention of Qui-Gon from anybody on the discs?

Does the "It's All For Real -Stunts" documentary feature a good portion of new behind the scenes footage or is it mainly just recycled stuff from the webdocs?

Have you tried entering the 1138 code that usually accesses a blooper reel or any other easter eggs?



Qui Gon is mentioned by George in referencing Obi Wan retaining his identity in Episode 4, but only very briefly. The meditation scene on Polis Masa has the effects guys talking over it.

The stunts doco is a mixture of new and recycled material

Yes there is an easter egg, and it is the best thing on the DVD.
However I recommend you find it yourself and don't highlight the text below, cos it's a nice surprise.

It is...


Hip-hop Yoda. Bustin a 'Roots' song with some clone troopers. 1minute.



;)


Post Posted: October 6th 2005 8:13 pm
 
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Hey DarthFirst,

Quick question...what is the blooper reel like for Episode III? You know how you have to go into the Options, and do the 1138 thing? Or with what you for having to highlight that one bit...was that the blooper reel?


Post Posted: October 6th 2005 8:17 pm
 

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...ashame about the commentarys. I actually don't mind the effects guys being involved, but I agree with those who say it would be great to have seperate commentary tracks...one for George, one for the effects guys, one for the actors.
I really would have enjoyed hearing Lucas going over his thought process on how he cuts and why, what inspired him and how it all ties together throughout the saga.
Maybe we can get that with a deluxe set in the future...

One quick question...are the delated scenes formatted the same way as the previous discs ala within a "documentary" butr able to play seperately?
If so, what are the general comments regarding all those "rebellion" scene cuts?

Thanks again for your time DF!


Post Posted: October 6th 2005 8:20 pm
 

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Who says their won't be separate commentaries on future releases? Nothing is out of the realm of possibility when it ccmes to GL and Star Wars.


Post Posted: October 7th 2005 12:02 am
 

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Darth First,

thanks a lot for answering our questions. It's most nice of you.

No more questions. I think I got the idea.


Thanks again


Post Posted: October 7th 2005 5:55 am
 

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George's commentary :

Ep IV : "now this is the one where OB1 lets Vader cut him down and he disapears, and in fact he is able to retain his identity and help Luke. Basically you don't know at that point how he does that, or even what happens at all. That's something OB1 has learned with Yoda between EpIII and Ep IV. But that's really explained in EpIII. You don't understand until you've seen EpIII, that's the one where everything is explained".


Ep III :"So Qui-Gon has dicovered how to retain his identity. This is the one where you discover that Yoda and OB1 learn it from Qui-Gon. I wanted to cut any mention of it, but finally I kept it in. Because you know, that force ghost thing, the ability to become one with the force yet retain your identity is explained really in Ep IV, which is the next episode, and that's the one where everything is explained and makes sense. I don't like to put too much emphasis on important plot points, and maybe i've insisted too much on that one, but it's very important you know. I think when you watch all six movies you'll find out the saga is really about how to become a force ghost. But you don't know that at that point. it's really one big 12 hours long story for me and it was written decades ago, and I have to stay true to that story, because that's the story and I have to tell it and it's one big story but [...] ".

Thank you.

Thank you George. :|


Post Posted: October 7th 2005 6:03 am
 

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Well, technically, he's right. Yoda talks about it at the end of Episode III. We really don't need to know the specifics of why. And by the time we get to Episode VI and Anakin becomes one with the Force, his sacrifice tells us how it's accomplished really. Granted, you have to think about it, but it's there on the screen.

Clearly, what Lucas is suggesting is that after he looked at the films together, he thought that it wasn't needed. It's the same with the Rebellion subplot. If you watch Episodes III and IV back to back, the Rebellion subplot is really revealed through Bail in Episode III and the first hour of Episode IV. It's technically explained....


Post Posted: October 7th 2005 6:06 am
 

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I know, I know.

I don't complain, I love EpIII.

But Darth First says that Lucas refers to EpIV when he mentions the force ghost thing. And in EpIV-VI he refers to Ep III. Promises, promises, ... GL makes a lot of promises in his dvd commentaries.

Just found it funny. But as you say, technically, there's no plot holes.

By the way, but I think you got it : the commentary is a parody. It's not Lucas' !!


Post Posted: October 7th 2005 6:29 am
 

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Well, it's obvious that he changed his mind in between when he recorded the commentaries for the Original Trilogy and for Episode III. And, we should've expected it. I mean, this is George Lucas we're talking about.

As it sits, I understand the Force Ghost issue and how the Rebellion was formed. If I were to change one little thing, it would be what Yoda says to Obi-Wan at the end of Episode III.

And it's the word compassion. I'd add that word in there when Yoda explains to Kenboi...

...but I do see it from Lucas' view. That's technically giving away too much because in Episode IV when Ben disappears, we see Vader confused but we know it's an act of compassion. I guess Lucas really wants us to turn on our brains for this subplot.

I wonder how future generations will see it.


Post Posted: October 7th 2005 9:04 am
 

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That was intentional, mess. It was supposed to give it a mystical quality, the naming of a Sith Lord.

Personally, I loved it.


Post Posted: October 7th 2005 10:40 am
 
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s.mess wrote:
DarthFirst,
Thanks for all the detailed info. One question about the sound mix... During the theatrical presentation, right after Mace Windu is killed and the Emperor is speaking to Anakin (where he gives him the name "Vader"), the quality of his voice changes a few times. At one point in the theater it almost sounded heavilly synthesized (as if run through a computer or something). Did they fix this for the DVD or does Palpatine's voice still have inconsistent quality amongst the various lines that he speaks?


It's too bad we don't get a commentary about this. My view is that it's supposed to be an audible representation of Anakin being seduced by the darkside of the force and also representing the fact that Anakin is now powerless against the darkside because he crossed the final line.


Darth First, thanks for answering my question. I'm a bit disappointed that the effects guys are talking over all the crucial and mythical plot points.
Now, I guess, we will be debating if Lucas didn't want to say anything about the Sidious/Mace fight, or if the producer thought that it was so obvious who really won that it'd be a waste of effects commentary to put it in. Oh well. :whateva:

Thankee, sai.


Post Posted: October 7th 2005 8:10 pm
 
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to answer your questions...

there's no blooper reel. the easter egg mentioned in my previous post is the only one, bar the DVD credits.

yep the deleted scenes are the same format as previous releases, you can watch with or without comments from George and Rick (Rick was devastated that the Yoda scene was cut and begged George to put it back for the DVD).

Palpatine's voice....yes, George mentions on the commentary that he tweaked Ian's voice during this scene because he wanted him to sound moe intense (my words not his, can't remember exact wording). Then gradually the synth effects were taken off as the scene progressed. As they were the first words spoken by the 'true' Sidious he wanted them to drip a bit more menace.


Post Posted: October 7th 2005 10:46 pm
 
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I still wish they completed the CG in the deleted scenes for the DVD release like they did for TPM. Oh well, still looks like it'll be cool.


Post Posted: October 7th 2005 11:30 pm
 
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I still wish they completed the CG in the deleted scenes for the DVD release like they did for TPM. Oh well, still looks like it'll be cool.


I think they are all completed with the exception of the fuel tank portion of the Grievous/Shaak Ti scene. A couple of these scenes like Dagobah and Bail's office were cut after they had already been completed by ILM.


Post Posted: October 8th 2005 3:29 am
 

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The "true Sidious".

Case closed. Ugly Sidious is the true Sidious. True face. True voice. True Sith. Period.

So we can still find some clues in that commentary if we look close enough :)


Post Posted: October 8th 2005 7:29 am
 

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To add on to what Thundercracker said, all the deleted scenes except for the Grievous/Shaak Ti scene were all completed by ILM then cut from the film.

So, they'll look just as good as the film itself.

I was watching the deleted scenes of Episode I last night and I had forgotten how finished the deleted scenes were compared to the Episode II deleted scenes.

I'm really looking forward to the Rebellion Alliance scenes, especially the Petition of 2000 scene. I'm curious as to how Hayden and Natalie played the scene since they were on opposite sides at the moment.


Post Posted: October 12th 2005 1:57 pm
 

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Cool info, suprised there isn't a leak with only 19days before midnight release. Bringing my forcefx to wal-mart at midnight :).

Nice to see Darth First that your still around.


Post Posted: October 12th 2005 5:10 pm
 
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They probably don't have a blooper reel because there'd be so much bluescreen that it wouldn't be that funny. I wouldn't think it'd be that great seeing Hayden trip during the duel when the whole thing would just be the two of them in a bluescreen room.


Post Posted: October 14th 2005 7:25 pm
 
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Exactly, I think we'd be able to summise what scene it is they botched up.

Jango slipping ... absolute class.


Post Posted: October 16th 2005 6:04 pm
 

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Priestess wrote:
why? all that Jango was on bluescreen and it was fecking funny.

Fecking?


Post Posted: October 17th 2005 8:39 am
 
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Yeah, it's from Father Ted.


Post Posted: October 17th 2005 5:54 pm
 

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Jordan wrote:

I was watching the deleted scenes of Episode I last night and I had forgotten how finished the deleted scenes were compared to the Episode II deleted scenes.



This is certainly true. The Ep I DVD was released 1 1/2 years after the theatrical run. ILM had significantly more time to complete these scenes back then. On the other hand, the II & III DVDs were rushed out in 6 months.


Post Posted: October 17th 2005 6:08 pm
 
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Were the ROTS deleted scenes cut from the movie after being completed, though? I was under the impression that was the case. Only one scene from AOTC was deleted after completion, the temple analysis droids. The rest weren't really up to par, especially with the TPM scenes.


Post Posted: October 17th 2005 6:20 pm
 
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure the rebellion scenes and Dagobah were cut after ILM had completed them. Not sure about the other two, but they look up to par with the rest of the movie fx with the exception of the fuel chamber portion of the Shaak Ti sequence. That scene was supposedly cut pretty early so I'm glad that the execution part of it at least looks pretty good.


Post Posted: October 17th 2005 7:18 pm
 

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The only deleted scene not completed was the Shaak Ti/Grievous scene. The rest were completed then cut from the film. So, the quality of the image and visuals should match the feature film.


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