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by **jamieiso** » July 26th 2004 1:05 pm

I was just thinking about Vader's 'new' conversation with the Emperor in the DVD release of ESB and what it might allude to.

One idea I had was regarding Vader's new line "How is that possible?". Is it possible that Anakin/Vader had at some point ordered the death of Luke (did he assume he dies on Hoth?) and now wonders why he is still about? Is he being coy because he hopes for Luke to join him and defeat the Emperor? It just seems that the line carries more weight than the original, afterall there were no restrictions for Lucas when he invented the line, in terms of matching timing with the old ESB scene. Why did he choose that line above all others? It just doesn't fit with the opening crawl...

by **Kraken** » July 26th 2004 2:46 pm

It would explain why Vader never bothers looking for Luke and why he is unaware of Leia until ROTJ.

by **Kraken** » July 26th 2004 4:14 pm

Of course without the existence of ROTS (or the rest of the PT), we must asume that Vader knew about Luke. At least in the original versions of the OT.

From the films themselves we have no idea what took place between ANH and ESB. Vader makes no mention of Luke in ANH, yet Owen and Ob1 know him. I always took it that Vader knew he had a surviving child but only took notice after the Battle of Yavin. But that idea throws up even more problems.

I guess the OT is difficult to judge in this regard for the simple reason that GL may not have invented the father-son relationship until he wrote the outline for ESB after ANH. Although Ob1 seems quite hesitant during his chat with Luke on Tatooine.

by **Jason@Star-Wars.net** » July 26th 2004 8:33 pm

I agree with Tony. This is from the original version:

-Jason

by **cheese_boy** » July 27th 2004 4:20 am

I don't think it's even that complicated - and agree with Tony.

I'm going to assume Padme dies immediately after giving birth aboard the Tantive, while Anakin is being recovered from Mustafar.

In the time it takes for Vader to be built, Palpatine becomes aware of the Naboo Senators death, and tells Vader.

Vader finds out between ANH and ESB that it was Luke Skywalker who destroyed the Death Star, and obsesses over finding him before Palpatine in order to lure him to the Dark Side and 'rule the galaxy as father and son.'

Palpatine finds the same information out then tells Vader, not knowing that Vader has already begun searching for him. Remember, Palpatine seems to have a blind spot when it comes to Luke and Vaders feelings for each other. Vader, as has been said, plays dumb and then resumes his search for his boy.

All is well.

by **Countdooku** » July 27th 2004 1:11 pm

Well,he is underastimating Luke

BUT HE WAS WRONG DEAD WRONG

by **Jedi Master Matt** » July 27th 2004 8:20 pm

All this change does is further drive home the point that Luke was right all along about this father.

There is still good in Anakin.

His continual efforts to find Luke before Palpatine. He's just playing dumb to the fact that he's done everything possible to keep Palps away from his kid.

by **Hade** » July 28th 2004 2:02 am

How hard would it be for Palpatine to have Padme’s body examined to find out if she gave birth before she died?

He already must know that Kenobi got away.

We don’t yet know what he thinks happened to Yoda.

For this to work, Padme would have to be blown up in a starship explosion, leaving no body...no trace.

If not, Palpatine is quite the moron for simply assuming she died before she could shoot out the tots. :whateva:

by **Hade** » July 28th 2004 2:31 am

Well, I have to admit to being at a crossroads with this.

I don’t really want her to blow up in an explosion. Yet if she doesn’t, it leaves a pretty big hole in the story.

I need to think about it a little.

by **Pete Venkman** » July 28th 2004 6:28 pm

For this to work, Padme would have to be blown up in a starship explosion, leaving no body...no trace.

Wouldn't it just be safe to assume that she was cremated after her death like Qui-Gon?

She does have a funeral you know.

by **Pete Venkman** » July 28th 2004 7:00 pm

some young kid with a little training from obi-wan isn't going to survive the empire.

Then again about that, do you think that Vader and the Emperor really knew how much training Luke has had. For all they know Obi-Wan could have been teaching Luke about being a Jedi ever since Luke was very young.

I wonder how they would have felt about engaging Luke if they knew that it was not just Obi-Wan who trained Luke but Yoda also.

Of course if they knew the whole truth then they would not only be a lot more impressed by Luke than if they didn't know, but they would have underestimated him far more. I mean some kid that has no more than a few small sessions with Yoda and Obi-Wan, most of the time fending for himself without the help of a master, yet he is able to pretty much defeat Vader with ease. So what if Vader was held back for most of the fight, I'm sure when Luke went berserk that Vader was giving all he had to stop the onslaught.

by **Pete Venkman** » July 28th 2004 7:01 pm

some young kid with a little training from obi-wan isn't going to survive the empire.

Then again about that, do you think that Vader and the Emperor really knew how much training Luke has had. For all they know Obi-Wan could have been teaching Luke about being a Jedi ever since Luke was very young.

I wonder how they would have felt about engaging Luke if they knew that it was not just Obi-Wan who trained Luke but Yoda also.

Of course if they knew the whole truth then they would not only be a lot more impressed by Luke than if they didn't know, but they would have underestimated him far more. I mean some kid that has no more than a few small sessions with Yoda and Obi-Wan, most of the time fending for himself without the help of a master. Then again he is able to pretty much defeat Vader with ease. So what if Vader was held back for most of the fight, I'm sure when Luke went berserk that Vader was giving all he had to stop the onslaught.

by **Biggs** » July 28th 2004 7:08 pm

Thanks for making three posts in a row out of the grand ol' 4 quality posts you've made in the forum.

by **Light Alpha Zer0** » July 28th 2004 8:10 pm

Man what the hell are the points of THESE? Ian in ESB is GREAT it's one of the only changes I like, but why must they change what they say to eachother. What's the point in that?

by **Hade** » July 28th 2004 11:59 pm

That's the $64,000 question.

We think ROTS might explain it. That is, we hope it will.

Pete Venkman wrote:
For this to work, Padme would have to be blown up in a starship explosion, leaving no body...no trace.

Wouldn't it just be safe to assume that she was cremated after her death like Qui-Gon?

She does have a funeral you know.

She's not a Jedi. I doubt she'll be cremated.

by **Devil Dodo** » July 29th 2004 1:41 am

why $64,000

by **Hade** » July 29th 2004 1:48 am

DD,

It's an American thing.

It used to be a game show in the 1950s (No, I'm not that old!

).

The big thing was answering the very hard $64,000 question.

If your still curious, check out this link.

http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/S/htm ... 0quest.htm