Rewatching the Original Trilogy

[KneelbfZod]

This is not meant to be a bash thread. I fully understand the OT was made over 25 years ago.

But wow, do some of the special effects look like shit. I know they can fix all that shit now, please for the love of god go back and fix it. Blaster shots, lightsabers, I could go on. Best example: The absolutely HORRIBLE matte painting of the MF behind Lando and Han when they part before leaving for Endor. OMG. The sheild generator in ROTJ is horrible too. Maybe DVD makes it look WORSE because you can spot all the imperfections.

In the PT there is always something happening the background. In the OT there is like 1 light flashing. With all the technology available today please go back and spruce these movies up!

This is just my opinion. Don't come here and tell me the OT's are classic and cannot be messed with. We are beyond that. The SE was good, for 1997, now it's time to bring this shit into the next century!

[Devil Dodo]

What I don't like is the end battle in Episode IV. I mean, of course, I love it but some of the effects shots just look tacky. Especially when you have one beautiful shot and then one which is so obviously a model. The model of the Death Star there looks very bad, and under-detailed.

They definitely need to redo the added CG shot on Bespin, those really look terrible, and either redo Jabba and fix the Chewie continuity or take the scene out altogether.

And for the love of god, if those sabers aren't fixed in the next release someone will be losing their head!

[thecolorsblend]

I'd like to see the lightsabers in the OT made to match the PT sabers more closely. The OT sabers have that ridiculous thrumming/pulsing effect going whereas the PT sabers seem to be a constant and static stream of energy.

But whatever.

[ETandElliott]

I of course agree about the lightsabers. Worst continuity problem based solely on their appearance. I haven't thought the end battle in ANH has worked at all since the SE because of the blending of CGI shots and the old miniatures stuff. Never understood why ILM didn't just redo all the shots in this case because it doesn't blend at all.

If ANH's end battle's VFX shots were all redone and the lightsabers were fixed, it would be for the better. And I could definitely go along with sprucing up the the blaster shots and maybe enhancing a couple bad mattes, but it really wouldn't make that big a difference.

In the end it still works when watching all six through, at least to me. Because the PT will never have hyperspace.

[flaxer]

I of course agree on the lightsabers. Worst continuity problem based solely on their appearance. I haven't thought the end battle in ANH has worked at all since the SE because of the blending of CGI shots and the old miniatures stuff. I never got why ILM didn't just redo all the shots in this case because it does not blend well at all.

So if ANH end battle's VFX shots were all redone, the sabers were fixed and I could definitely go along with sprucing up the the blaster shots and maybe enhancing a couple bad mattes, but it wouldn't make that big a difference.

In the end it still works when watching all six through, at least to me. Because the PT will never have hyperspace.

"I of course....blah blah blah...."


God damn! Am I drunk? Or are you just putting nouns and verbs together to try and pathetically to make some sort of sense here?

OK, I admit its Friday, and we are all entitled to a bit of slack…but I went cross eyed trying to read your post.

[KneelbfZod]

"I of course....blah blah blah...."


God damn! Am I drunk? Or are you just putting nouns and verbs together to try and pathetically to make some sort of sense here?

OK, I admit its Friday, and we are all entitled to a bit of slack…but I went cross eyed trying to read your post.

Wow you are a dick. Don't poison my thread with your shit. Take it elsewhere.

[flaxer]

PerfectCr and ETAndElliot4Ever - sorry about my post last night. I was drunk and did need to uncross my eyes...makes much more sense when I've got my head out of my ass.

[Longtime_Sunshine]

wooooo!

Archival editions!

[Bandersnatch]

In the PT there is always something happening the background. In the OT there is like 1 light flashing.

I agree that they should go back and clean up certain shots, but I don't see this particular thing as a problem at all. We see different locations and situations in each episode. In some places there's more shit in the background, in other places there's less. Not a big deal. In fact, it's a little more "realistic" (to use the word loosely) this way.

[KneelbfZod]

I don't want realistic, I want action and eye candy!

[boltzman]

What I don't like is the end battle in Episode IV. I mean, of course, I love it but some of the effects shots just look tacky. Especially when you have one beautiful shot and then one which is so obviously a model. The model of the Death Star there looks very bad, and under-detailed.

And for the love of god, if those sabers aren't fixed in the next release someone will be losing their head!

I definitely agree with you there....it wouldn't hurt to add some new shots to spruce IV's Death Star Battle up....maybe add some more shots of the gun turrets from episode III or get some CGI shots of more ships flying around then just the Xwings.

Although I love both trilogies, I really would like to see a little bit of a technology update in the OT, especially after watching the first three. Something simple like adding PT consoles to the ships or finally fixing the "pong demo" before the death star assault.

(And in the event that none of these updates come to pass, at least fix the damn lightsabers... )

[overState2005]

...In the end it still works when watching all six through, at least to me. Because the PT will never have hyperspace.

I KNOW!!!! wtf?!?

I guess they were too discerning to make anything that would look unrealistic.... The star effect looks pretty retro next to everything else these days. The effect is a classic element, but hey, so is the Mellotron. It's got it's place. Don't just throw it around to please our likes. Most of us are artists anyways (I hope), and I'm sure we can keep ourselves amused.

[VT-16]

Lucas said he wanted to save the Hyperspace effect for the OT, not because it was bad, but because it would be something special for the last part of the story.

In the PT there is always something happening the background. In the OT there is like 1 light flashing.

Well, there´s plenty of stuff in Mos Eisley and Cloud City, especially with the SE version. The Cantina and Jabba´s palace also has plenty of aliens and stuff.

I did hear about an update in the battle of Hoth for the DVD (more walkers and fighting), but that was never completed. Hope there´s something for the future releases....

[thecolorsblend]

I always hated certain parts of the first Death Star battle. Especially the way Vader's ship and the escort TIE's seem like they are basicly hooked together in almost every movement they make going into the canyon. And I whole heartily agree that some of the readout screens in the OT look hackneyed and should be replaced. Especially the schematics of the Death Star. I mean crap, that's the shit they stole? Bothans suck, they should have stolen the designs that Poggle the Lesser had or even better the ones that Palps is looking at when Anakin walks into the room in ROTS.

10-4 that! I can live with the OT effect as it is, but man it does not blend AT ALL.

And someone else mentioned throwing out all the old model shots and replacing all the space battles with CGI... make it so!

[Bandersnatch]

When are people gonna get a fucking clue already that using CGI does not mean that they do not use physical models? There are models and CGI shots in the prequels and in the SEs.

[thecolorsblend]

When are people gonna get a fucking clue already that using CGI does not mean that they do not use physical models? There are models and CGI shots in the prequels and in the SEs.

And they're blended together quite well (the Republic delegation landing on Naboo at the end of TPM) in the prequels, but the CG/model blending in the OT has, up to now, completely sucked. That and the general look and feel of the model effects in the OT are undeniably different from what we saw with the model/CG effects in the prequels.

When are people gonna learn to fucking read?

[VT-16]

You gotta admit that model shots such as the star destroyer/blockade runner shots look pretty fucking good.

I doubt anyone is interested in removing any good, old SFX shots. Just the ones that haven´t stood the test of time.

[JonLees]

Hmmm....maybe George can redo the PT and make them not look like a CGI cartoon.


I have heard that Ep3 is nominated for best animated movie this year.

I personally wish he would just give us the originals, not altered.

[Bandersnatch]

maybe George can redo the PT and make them not look like a CGI cartoon.

They don't look that way now. So there you go.

[Bertok The Bad]

I can only think of two scenes that could use a touch up. The shot with three tie-fighters leaving the docking bay to chase Luke and Biggs and the scene where the X-wing crashes on the surface of the Death Star (with a huge plume of smoke)... that shot looks exactly like what it was: a guy riding on a cart past a model section of the Death Star with a camera. I would not mourn the replacement of either of those scenes.

[thecolorsblend]

I can only think of two scenes that could use a touch up. The shot with three tie-fighters leaving the docking bay to chase Luke and Biggs and the scene where the X-wing crashes on the surface of the Death Star (with a huge plume of smoke)... that shot looks exactly like what it was: a guy riding on a cart past a model section of the Death Star with a camera. I would not mourn the replacement of either of those scenes.

That entire battle should be CGI.

[Seed]

There are visual continuity issues in the PT as well. Personally, if one were to touch up the OT, one might as well touch all 6 movies and fix certain things so it blends well together and create a nice aesthetic (ie fixing Yoda in all 6 movies, fixing the lightsaber issues in all 6 movies, fixing transport landing on Naboo in II, fixing Battle of Yavin in IV, etc).

Overall, the most important aspect of OT (along with the PT) should be the story. I mean, if you're going to fix a few items here or there, you might as well do a complete overhaul.

Just my crummy 2 cents.

[patbuddha]

What would make me happy is if they found a way to fix the fight between Obi-Wan and Vader. Of all the things that I don't think mesh, that one is the most glaring. The choreography is by far the weakest in the entire saga. It looks like two guys just kind of swinging sticks in each other's general direction, not the work of master swordsmen or anyone who ever could wield a sword. Considering all the digital face replacement they did for Christopher Lee and Ian McDiarmid, it is completely doable.

[thecolorsblend]

It was only doable today because they could make laser scans of those actors faces. I don't think that's a realistic option with Guiness.

[Jotun]

They really should redo the Death Star space battle in ANH. Probably adding more Tie Fighters would be a smart idea.

[frude_dude]

What would make me happy is if they found a way to fix the fight between Obi-Wan and Vader. Of all the things that I don't think mesh, that one is the most glaring. The choreography is by far the weakest in the entire saga. It looks like two guys just kind of swinging sticks in each other's general direction, not the work of master swordsmen or anyone who ever could wield a sword. Considering all the digital face replacement they did for Christopher Lee and Ian McDiarmid, it is completely doable.

It was only doable today because they could make laser scans of those actors faces. I don't think that's a realistic option with Guiness.

They could do it with some effort. Ben is wearing his hood for the fight, so any additional scenes they could add to better reflect the skills of Ben and Vader could be shown with "Ben"'s back to the camera and whomever in the Vader suit facing the camera. Honestly, all it would take is one or two decent saber clashes/exchanges mixed into the rest of the fight.

[hypertext]

I remember reading somewhere that Lucas' thought with the lazerswords was that they we're "heavy" and hard to weild. With that thought in mind the fight fits, but thank the maker that the rest of the trilogy and the PT ignore that point. And regardless of the fact that obi was old, I'm sure he could still kick some ass.

I second the thought of adding some new fight scenes.

[STDSkillz]

I heard that exact same thing too--that's why both Alec Guiness and David Prowess held the sabers with two hands to imitate a heavier saber. I'm pretty sure that was disbanded by TESB, though, since Vader used a one-handed approach when first fighting Luke.

[Bertok The Bad]

To quote a source (VADER) "Your powers have grown weak old man." Exactly what does that imply? That sure doesn't imply to me an old jedi jumping around like a monkey on steroids, does it?

[sultan bey]

I remember reading somewhere that Lucas' thought with the lazerswords was that they we're "heavy" and hard to weild.

Ya, obi-wan vs vader has that feel. but, other scenes dont... lukes first time w/ anakins lightsaber, training remote, and obi-wan in the cantina. these all support the "An Elegant Weapon from a More Civilized Age" statement.

To quote a source (VADER) "Your powers have grown weak old man." Exactly what does that imply?

could just be wishful thinking on vaders part. a dark side head trip to put obi-wan off balance... or, just the plain ole truth. obi-wan and his powers had grown old and weak over the years since these two guys had last seen each other.

[hypertext]

I'm sure being weak has nothing to do with Obi moving slow. Come to think of it, no force powers were used in the fight just the lazerswords. And also Obi said to Vader that he could strike him down, but he would become more powerful than Vader could possibly imagine, that doesn't imply to me that Obi was weak in the force, of course he was old, but then again so was yoda, and he still kicked ass.

[Bertok The Bad]

Vader didn't say "Your FORCE powers are weak.." etc (altho one could argue convincingly that saber combat is very much a force power since it is the force which guides a Jedi's movements - as Obiwan taught Luke in the Falcon). I also don't believe Vader needed to resort to a cheap trick like that to "throw Obiwan off balance". That is more greedo's style. Vader was more than confident that he had Obiwan beat the second he sensed him.

Lastly the difference between Yoda and Obiwan is laughably stupid to even debate. So I won't. tee hee

[sultan bey]

Vader didn't say "Your FORCE powers are weak.." etc (altho one could argue convincingly that saber combat is very much a force power since it is the force which guides a Jedi's movements - as Obiwan taught Luke in the Falcon). I also don't believe Vader needed to resort to a cheap trick like that to "throw Obiwan off balance". That is more greedo's style. Vader was more than confident that he had Obiwan beat the second he sensed him.

Lastly the difference between Yoda and Obiwan is laughably stupid to even debate. So I won't. tee hee

lol -- he didnt say "your force powers are weak" because he didnt have to. we all know he's talking about force powers and not some other power.

i dont know...seems to me the dark side is the place to be if you dig cheap tricks. otherwise, the other sith may laugh and call you jedi.

maybe vader did sense he had obi-wan beat. if so, he was wrong. obi-wan came out on top. just like he said he would.

dude - how can you be above debating the difference between yoda and obi-wan but not this other stuff? lol - just giving you a hard time.

[Bertok The Bad]

smoochies.

[philmcknight]

I'd like to see the lightsabers in the OT made to match the PT sabers more closely. The OT sabers have that ridiculous thrumming/pulsing effect going whereas the PT sabers seem to be a constant and static stream of energy.

But whatever.

I agree. Take a look at Luke kicking ass on Jabba's ship in ROTJ. A lightsaber is supposed to cut through anything it touches but it looks like Luke is slapping Jabba's men away.

[KneelbfZod]

That always bothered me. Shouldn't he be slicing all those guys in two? He might as well be using a nightstick.

[ETandElliott]

Looks fine to me.

[Pax Britannia]

Its so it doesnt freek out little kids and get the movie a 15 or 18 rating. I always thought that the main reason GL went with droids as the main enemy in the PT was because he could show Jedi carving them up.

[thecolorsblend]

WOW...you thought of that all by yourself? Just think, in twenty years the PT special effects will be outdated. Better start working on new versions now! Remember we are past that! Hey along those same lines, man would a reshoot of the Exorcist with today's effects look great or what? How about a new shark for Jaws?

To think I hope this loser has switched over to originaltrilogy.com forum everytime I sign in. What a tool.

[KneelbfZod]

Lucas is the kind of Director who would actually go back and fix the shit, which is why I said it. Obviously we are not now going to go back and fix all old movies.

[ETandElliott]

Blaster shots, lightsabers, I could go on. Best example: The absolutely HORRIBLE matte painting of the MF behind Lando and Han when they part before leaving for Endor. OMG. The sheild generator in ROTJ is horrible too.

I think that matte painting would look alright if the shot wasn't so bright. I believe there are some pilots that walk by that are clearly brighter than the matte and look shitty...if I'm thinking of the right shot. If someone would just go through and time all the films (without ridiculously boosting the blues of R2-D2's panels and randomly draining color from shots), they'd look a hell of a lot better.

Maybe DVD makes it look WORSE because you can spot all the imperfections.

Bingo (in a sense). From what I remember from limited viewings of the DVD versions, blaster shots and lightsabers were totally fucked by the restoration (or DVD mastering). This amid all the enhancements, of course.

[Dark Lord of the Mitch]

Lightsaber and blaster shots absolutely need to be touched up, especially the X-wing blaster shots above the Death Star. Those things look so damn fat they should be putting holes thru the screen. I agree that the Death Star plans need to be updated and that the battle above the Death Star needs to be updated also. The jumping between new shots and old shots just makes it a whole lot worse.

Somewhere else on the forums someone mentioned that they should add the glowing burn marks when Luke slashes people on Jabba's barge. That would be a good idea and a relatively easy addition. ROTJ does need the matte paintings worked on, they do stick out like a sore thumb now. I also thought the explosions in ROTJ looked odd, almost like they were too flat or something.

The only change I would make to ESB is to remove the scenes where Vader leaves Cloud City to go to his Star Destroyer. Those scenes led to some awfully choppy editing of the Falcon trying to escape and I think it's totally unnecessary.

I know these changes are needed because of the clarity of DVD but that is going to be the medium of choice now so some fixes should be made to accomodate that. I'm not saying every classic movie needs to be reshot or have effects added, but Star Wars is quite possibly the most popular movie franchise of all time with a rabid fanbase so there is a demand out there for the changes. Plus, it's not like Lucas doesn't have the means or the financing to undertake this, and he already started this by adding to the movies already. He owns ILM for christ sakes, probably the best CG company in the world, USE THEM!

[Demodex]

...and either redo Jabba and fix the Chewie continuity or take the scene out altogether.

What Chewie continuity problem?

[Jelperman]

I'd like to see something done about the Rancor scene, which looks like it belongs in a Harryhausen movie. Those matte lines and mismatched color are annoying.

[bfett81]

I'm probably in the minority, but I love the old special effects. Inparticular, I LOVE the matte paintings.

I can do without the matte lines and Obi-Wan's fizzling saber, though.

[yarq]

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[yarq]

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