Original Trilogy DVDs: Digital Clean-up sans Special Edition

[BrotherTheFirst]

http://www.mikeverta.com/

under projects.

[BrotherTheFirst]

i think it's going to be awhile until he's done though.

[Bandersnatch]

What about The Alluminum Falcon? Will they fix it so it doesn't look so artificial?

[Maveritchell]

What about The Alluminum Falcon? Will they fix it so it doesn't look so artificial?

It's magnesium.

[Reecoh]

http://www.x0project.com

[Ayatollah Krispies]

I often wonder if Lucas will at some point release his original version to the masses "for the last time" anyhow.

He did so back in 1995. It was even marketed with those words.

Lot of people out there trying to read Lucas's mind who ought to just look at what he's said.

[Bandersnatch]

Am I the only one who doesn't have any problems with the OT DVDs? I saw the originals in the theater starting have no desire to see the cuts again.

Same here.

[Devil Dodo]

Do the original prints even exist anymore?

I really have no problem with most of the changes... but I think that if they're going to to fix the films they should fix everything not just some stuff. Seeing a crappy model shot after a CG shot is very irritating (I'm talking about the end battle in ANH). Either release it with it completely fixed, or release it with no changes... or release both versions.

[hypertext]

I think I remember seeing it somewhere that one of the main reasons they updated the films was because the original films were actually deteriorating very badly, so no they probably do not exist anymore.

[Ayatollah Krispies]

They're preserved at the Smithsonian Institute.

[mr.microphone]

Am I the only one who doesn't have any problems with the OT DVDs? I saw the originals in the theater starting have no desire to see the cuts again.

I also am a member of this minority. I actually would go further to say that I don't think Lucas has done enough to "fix his mistakes".


In ANH, in the Death Star scene where Tarkin says to "terminate her immediately", Vader is still gesturing while the voice over is done speaking. Anthony Daniels' reading of C-3PO's lines in ANH are a bit flat compared to his "prissy, over the top fussiness" take on the character from ESB on. Get him to recut the lines more in character with his performace in the rest of the saga - I'm sure he's available!

The 20th Fox fanfare in ANH is in 1977 Mono (on purpose I understand), the ANH Star Wars title card flys out faster than in the other films... Not too mention there are hordes of fans out there that have compiled a list of editing mistakes and flubs far more than I can come up with. Next to "Citizen Kane" and "Psycho", I'd say Star Wars (ANH) is probably among the most studied and examined films. If you're gonna fix the problems, George, fix them all and fix them right. And contary to your PR, you do have the time, money and resources.

Lucas has introduced a new stroytelling "device" to the saga in ROTS - the premonition or "vision" where we see foreshadowing shots in a cloudly VFX swirl (ala LOTR). He uses the premonition idea 2 other times in the saga (in AOTC when Anakin wakes up from a nightmare about his mother, and in ESB when Luke is learning from Yoda and sees his friends "in pain" in "a city in the clouds".)

Since the "vision" is an important detail in the Force narative aspect of the story (a path to the Dark Side), I think it's equally important in the other 2 instances as it is in ROTS. Lucas should drop in the VFX swirl with repsective premonition shots to make that new directorial device play more consistant throughout the saga. The footage is already there in those films, just a quick edit and that swirl thingy with an eerie sound fx...

I'm all for sprucing things up. Though I think his intention to change his films is more a marketing ploy than one of artistic merit. Sure, release the OT on DVD, if there's a demand, satisfy the demand. Like so many others, the original Star Wars was a part of my childhood and the start of my love for movies and the entertainment industry. But I wouldn't buy the original Star Wars today, and my kids wouldn't watch it either.

I'm climbing off my soapbox, now ... thank you for time. I await your rotten tomatoes.

[ETandElliott]

I kind of agree with you on those points. The Legacy Edition really opened my eyes to the visual screwups in all of the films. The lazer blasts without color, incorrectly color times shots and the like. Regarding the colors in the films, I never really noticed until I saw Mike Verta's project, and now it distracts in all three films.

C-3PO's voice in ANH doesn't bother me as much as Vader's did, which was fixed for the most part on the DVD.

[KneelbfZod]

I kind of agree with you on those points. The Legacy Edition really opened my eyes to the visual screwups in all of the films. The lazer blasts without color, incorrectly color times shots and the like. Regarding the colors in the films, I never really noticed until I saw Mike Verta's project, and now it distracts in all three films.

C-3PO's voice in ANH doesn't bother me as much as Vader's did, which was fixed for the most part on the DVD.

I agree 100%. I started this thread about that very same topic. The OT is painful to watch in light of the PT now. Major work needs to be done.

[mr.microphone]

Unless "Digital Yoda" is already in the can (or on the Hard Drive as the case may be) for TPM's re-release, I suspect this fall's release of the Saga 6 Pack will offer nothing new in terms of what we have - simply repacking the discs already circulating. Just to appease those wanting "a complete set" for the holidays. Lucasfilm's marketing strikes again!

During last year's OT DVD release Van Ling somewhere online said to expect new content for ANH's 30th anniversary. Maybe that's when the lasers and the lightsabers and the matte paintings and et al will be fixed.

[KneelbfZod]

God damnit Ford really needs to go back and fix all it's 60's era Mustangs because the new ones are all sleak looking and shiny and more comfortable and get better mileage and it really makes the old ones look like crap.

Nice try, but a pretty bad argument. To strengthen your case, I suggest you visit http://www.fallacyfiles.org

[King of Comedy]

I totally agree with anyone who says that the OT needs a ton more work doing to it. In particular ANH. I think that Mike Verta bloke really knows his stuff as far as the colour timing issues and rotoscoping goes. It is totally painful to watch the crappy effects of the OT knowing that they don't hold up compared to the quality of the prequels, particularly ROTS (I actually reckon the CG Yoda in that film wiped the floor with the Frank Oz puppet in TESB). I don't get why people even whinge about Lucas messing with the orginal print. I would have absolutely no problem if Lucas just decided to painstakingly roto-out the actors performances in the OT and build a whole new CG world in there. I don't think that much is necessary, but a few things here and there would be fine. Here's my wishlist for future releases:

ANH:

-Saber and laser bolt colour needs fixing
-Luke's saber is blue not green
-Jumpy saber on/off transitions need to be sorted
-Animated computer displays need to be PT standard
-Death Star Battle needs to be completely CG

TESB:

-CG Yoda needed
-The fake-looking closing mouth effect of the asteroid beast needs fixing

ROTJ:

-CG Jabba (can't take much more of that giant rubber puppet)
-CG Rancor
-Solo's awakening from the carbonite just looks rubbish; major fix needed
-CG Yoda again
-Speeder Bike Sequences could be re-done
-Sabers need redoing in the father/son fight
-Space battle needs to be re-done (except the DS interior chase)

There's probably more that could be done, but those are what I see as the major errors.

[Inv8r_ZIM]

"the ANH Star Wars title card flys out faster than in the other films... "

Only on the DVD, and ONLY on the english language angle. Set your player to something else, and you'll see it's at the proper speed. Just another fucking error introduced into the films for the DVD release. I guess it leaves something to "fix" for the NEXT inevitable edition of the films.

[Guru]

One thing that really disturbs me is that the entire starfield has been replaced

Can't say I ever lost sleep over that one.

[ETandElliott]

I don't get why people even whinge about Lucas messing with the orginal print. I would have absolutely no problem if Lucas just decided to painstakingly roto-out the actors performances in the OT and build a whole new CG world in there.

Because they grew up on the original versions of the films and many of the changes made haven't been particularly well-done. Greedo shooting first still looks bad. I understand the basis of the change, but it will never look good. Other stuff like the drowning out of the music during the Death Star attack that are explained off as a deliberate creative decision, Jedi Rocks in ROTJ, the cheesy inclusion of an alternate take of Vader departing shuttle Tydirium from ROTJ inserted into TESB (Not to mention three versions of scenes like the Han/Greedo confrontation and the Jabba scene in ANH that are now in existance) is where the problems come in. Will the films ever be complete?

-Saber and laser bolt colour needs fixing
-Luke's saber is blue not green
-Jumpy saber on/off transitions need to be sorted
-Animated computer displays need to be PT standard
-Death Star Battle needs to be completely CG

Lightsabers and blasters are the main problem. It wouldn't hurt to CG the entire Death Star battle, but since when does the PT set the standard for computer displays? The galaxy's a big place, not everything needs to look the same.

-CG Yoda needed
-The fake-looking closing mouth effect of the asteroid beast needs fixing

No and no. The space slug would look exactly the same, only CGI, so I don't see why any change needs to be made.

-CG Jabba (can't take much more of that giant rubber puppet)
-CG Rancor
-Solo's awakening from the carbonite just looks rubbish; major fix needed
-CG Yoda again
-Speeder Bike Sequences could be re-done
-Sabers need redoing in the father/son fight
-Space battle needs to be re-done (except the DS interior chase)

Jabba- No. The Jabbas in TPM and ANH have been based off the Jabba from ROTJ, not the other way around. Reading this, it seems the PT has created a kind of arrogance toward the classic effects of the OT. It's kind of sad.

And the battle of Endor looks a hell of a lot better than the space battle from ROTS.

[KneelbfZod]

Great post King of Comedy, I agree 100%.

Battle of Endor bett looking than the space battle on ROTS? Watch the Endor battle with an upcoverting DVD player on an HDTV at 1081i and tell me which one looks better.

On a regular 480i TV sure they might look similar. When you start watching DVD's at high res or on a PC the old effects really show their age, badly.

[ETandElliott]

Great post King of Comedy, I agree 100%.

Battle of Endor bett looking than the space battle on ROTS? Watch the Endor battle with an upcoverting DVD player on an HDTV at 1081i and tell me which one looks better.

On a regular 480i TV sure they might look similar. When you start watching DVD's at high res or on a PC the old effects really show their age, badly.

By the time ILM got around to doing Return Of The Jedi, they had perfected what they began when they did the effects in Star Wars. With some matte line removal, it still looks incredible, even moreso after it was cleaned up for the SE. The Executor crashing into the Death Star may be the only really bad shot.

I am by no means putting down the space battle in Sith, but for me Jedi's battle was perfectly done, and everything in it actually being physical models lends it more realism. When ILM re-did shots for the OT:SE, the CGI looked amazing, and it needed it. Maybe it was because ILM had more time and less shots to do when they did the ANH:SE, but Sith's battle just looked more CGI for some reason, which is something I don't see in the OT:SE digital shots like the Death Star battle and the Falcon taking off from Tatooine.

Not sure if this really makes any sense. I guess it just depends on your own perspective.

[KneelbfZod]

When ILM re-did shots for the OT:SE, the CGI looked amazing, and it needed it. Maybe it was because ILM had more time and less shots to do when they did the ANH:SE, but Sith's battle just looked more CGI for some reason, which is something I don't see in the OT:SE digital shots like the Death Star battle and the Falcon taking off from Tatooine.

Not sure if this really makes any sense. I guess it just depends on your own perspective.

Actually I know what you mean. The SE CG is really good, esp that MF shot leaving Tatooine, but there really needs to be more of it.

[Devil Dodo]

I have to agree more with ETandElliot for the most part, King of Comedy I think is taking it a bit too far.

For sure, the saber effects need to be fixed (I’m not purchasing another set unless they are) and the obvious jump in the on/off needs to be fixed (also in ESB when the door closes behind Luke on Bespin). The space battle in ANH needs some work also, but I definitely wouldn’t get rid of everything and have everything CG. There are some great shots in there. There just needs to be a lot more detail on the death star surface, and some of the shots of the models need to be fixed/replaced. Like I said earlier, it’s very jarring going from a great shot to a crappy model shot.

I feel there is absolutely no need for a CG Yoda in either Empire or Jedi. He doesn’t do anything but talk. There are shots where an addition of CG would be welcome (when he’s on Luke’s back) but to replace him completely is unnecessary. As for the space slug – it’s neither here nor there. I think it’s fine how it is, but a CG one wouldn’t hurt (unless it looks too ‘CG’).

Jabba in Jedi I have to agree with. The puppet/animatronic/whater-it-is just looks so unrealistic. Even moreso than the CG ones in TPM and ANH at times. I don’t think a full CG Jabba is necessary, but some CG would be very welcome. The Rancor, I think, is fine. The only thing about that scene that bugs me is the shot of Luke putting the bone in its mouth. It just doesn’t look right. It’s so obviously bluescreened. Fix that.

Han coming out of the carbonite does look very shitty. Definitely in need of a fix.

The Battle of Endor...

By the time ILM got around to doing Return Of The Jedi, they had perfected what they began when they did the effects in Star Wars. With some matte line removal, it still looks incredible, even moreso after it was cleaned up for the SE. The Executor crashing into the Death Star may be the only really bad shot.

I am by no means putting down the space battle in Sith, but for me Jedi's battle was perfectly done, and everything in it actually being physical models lends it more realism. When ILM re-did shots for the OT:SE, the CGI looked amazing, and it needed it. Maybe it was because ILM had more time and less shots to do when they did the ANH:SE, but Sith's battle just looked more CGI for some reason, which is something I don't see in the OT:SE digital shots like the Death Star battle and the Falcon taking off from Tatooine.

Not sure if this really makes any sense. I guess it just depends on your own perspective.

I completely agree with this. I love the Battle of Endor, I think the CG work /model work is great however they did it. The battle in Sith does have a very CG feel to it at times...

[MTH]

Am I the only one who doesn't have any problems with the OT DVDs? I saw the originals in the theater starting have no desire to see the cuts again.

I like everything except for that fucking horrible dance scene in Jabba's palace. The original version was about 100 billion times better. Hayden's ghost in ROTJ was a welcome surprise to me because I saw on AICN where someone had a picture of that scene way before the dvds came out but I completely blew it off as fake. Little did I know it was true.

[King of Comedy]

Perhaps I was taking it slightly too far. I was just trying to prove a point that nothing's sacred, especially when Lucas is eventually going to look at it and mess with it. Again, I have no problem with that, but I appreciate what people are saying here at the same time. I think it basically comes down to comprimise.

The ROTJ space battle. The one thing that annoys me about it is stuff like the initial shot of TIE Inteceptors obviously appearing out of nowhere at the beginning, as well as several instances of visible matte lines. The whole action looks good, but there are some serious errors as far as the matte work goes. Also, this is supposed to be the final confrontation (because, let's face it, nobody's going to make allowances for the EU) between the Rebels and the Empire; and yet there only appears to be around twenty Rebel fighters on screen at once, particularly in the sequence before the jump to lightspeed there seems like hardly any of them. Perhaps the could leave it 'as is' but add some extra ships and stuff going on. Compared to the ROTS battle, this final confrontation looks like a little skirmish.

Yoda... well.... he is okay. Only reason I put that there was because I'd just been looking at one of the high res pictures of him in ROTS, and was totally stunned at how close to the puppet he really was, and my thoughts ran away with me. They really nailed it in that film compared to the crappy AOTC version so I started getting a bit silly with it.

Jabba I still can't watch. Like Devil Dodo said, he just looks fake. I don't doubt that, if Lucas could have CG'd him at the time, he would have done. Perhaps, as Devil Dodo suggested, he could be simply updated with some decent CG extensions. I don't know.

Anyway... rant over

[ETandElliott]

Also, this is supposed to be the final confrontation (because, let's face it, nobody's going to make allowances for the EU) between the Rebels and the Empire; and yet there only appears to be around twenty Rebel fighters on screen at once, particularly in the sequence before the jump to lightspeed there seems like hardly any of them. Perhaps the could leave it 'as is' but add some extra ships and stuff going on.

Looks fine to me. One thing I find intriguing is that you feel the space battle should be more epic because it's the final battle, yet you've said nothing about the Empire's ground forces running around with pseudo teddy bears carrying spears. I thought one of the major points of the film is that it doesn't matter what size your army is or who you are, you can still conquer enormous obstacles. The Rebel fleet was less superior than the Empire's, that's intentional. But it's the brain power and ingenuity that helped them win the day, not the size of the fleet. So it's fine as is. Hell, they're described in the opening crawl as a "small band of Rebels". The PT and OT are very different times and circumstances.

[King of Comedy]

Yep. But there's small and then there's small. In ANH, we know they had thirty rebel ships. Yet we get to ROTJ and they've got what, twenty at best? Hmm.

[ETandElliott]

This just doesn't look like a "skirmish" to me.




I didn't want to bash Episode III's battle, but...all the bulk of it really showed us was Anakin and Obi-Wan dealing with the stupid buzz droids and leaving the battle. In Jedi, we actually follow the entire battle and it's more involved. There's enough activity going on in Jedi's battle that additional CGI isn't needed, and apparently Lucas agrees. That's unlike Sith's battle, which had to give you something else to look at besides R2 zapping droids.

I can understand if you have a few gripes with the films (Lightsabers and some all around defective video) or things you'd like to see but really wouldn't mind if you didn't, but it's people that are just so unhappy with the films and miserable towards them that make me laugh, because they make me happy and give me joy. In the end, they're still the greatest films ever made to me, and CGI'ing everything wouldn't make a hell of a difference.

[Crashwithuhk]

I agree. I kept reading the changed he was making and seeing the difference and kept getting more and more excited about it and then i read the FAQ and argh. I have to say at first when I heard about these all I expected was a version of the OT DVDs with the SE scenes cut out but all this color correction and fixes... damn. Looking forward to see how the X0 group progresses as well.

[King of Comedy]

Cool stuff. I love these films. Don't get me wrong. I gues I just have different ideas about what should be done with them. Everybody's going to have thier own take on it.

It's one of those cases where you can't change my mind and I can't change yours ETandElliot4Ever. I still like to hear other people's views on the subject, though, gives me the bigger picture, sort of.

Peace

[Devil Dodo]

The types of changes that annoy me are one like RUSKULL mentioned... ones that are just simply unneeded. Mostly the additional establishing shots used. I think you would be very surprised at how much times is taken up during establishing shots (especially in the PT - though it is a lot better in ROTS). George, we don't need to see extended shot of Mos Eisley, we don't need to see a goofy Jawa hanging off of some dinosaur! We don't need to see it, nor does it improve our appreciation for the film...

Instead of adding these shots in the Mos Eisley sequence he should have instead spent time on fixing the shot of Ben and Luke overlooking the spaceport. Put some ships in there, or something.

And for the love of good, either bring back Boba's original voice or have Temuera re-read the lines... They sound terrible!

[Shiban]

I don't know Lucasfilm need to hire Mike Verta's lazy ass to do the furthur restortations... this guy is a fucking restoration god... complete fucking joy to see his progress restoring the restored DVDs not only is it a better idea than restoring the LD's but hes going to get a really high result... too bad he ain't gonna share it because what hes done is just mind blowingly good...

After seeing his work, I almost want to cry knowing I"ll never be able to see it like he's making it. There are very few sites that I can sit and read page by page and not miss a word, but this kept me completely engrossed. What I would give to see his finished product. Fucking brilliant.

[King of Comedy]

Well. He can't really distribute it without the potential for getting himself into a big pile of trouble with Lucasfilm. Like he says, though; if you really want to see the films how he'll be seeing them, then do it yourself, he's actually telling you how to do it step-by-step on his site, all you need are the right tools. Personally, I'm up for the challenge, it sounds like a lot of fun, too: a nice little hobbyist project. I'm going to have a go at it. If you wanna see the films like this, you should too.

[Gregory DG]

And for the love of good, either bring back Boba's original voice or have Temuera re-read the lines... They sound terrible!

Seriously. Morrison sounded like he was asleep when he read those lines. No feeling in them whatsoever. At least he could have tried to mimic the original voice inflections.

[overState2005]

Mike Verta as a little more sharp-witted than I like, but between conducting film scores and doing effects work here and there in the whole industry this guy does exactly what I want to do. (well maybe not exactly, but alot more than most people settle for)

[yarq]

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[yarq]

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