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Post Posted: September 21st 2004 10:55 am
 
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Maybe I'm not the first to realize this, but near the beginning of EMPIRE, before the Empire invades Hoth, Vader says "The Rebels are there" and "I'm sure Skywalker is with them" (Chapter 11, "The Imperial Fleet"). Then, we go to Chapter 25, where Palpatine says "I have no doubt that this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker", to which Vader responds "How is this possible?"

Dude, an hour ago, you KNEW "Skywalker is with them." Now you don't know how that is possible? And seeing as how Vader apparently knew this previously, why is it only now that Palpatine has "no doubt"? Isn't this something that Vader would have reported the instant he knew?


Post Posted: September 21st 2004 11:11 am
 

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You're kidding right?
It's the further drive the point that Vader had a secret agenda for Luke, that he wanted to keep secret from the Emperor.
Did you even watch all of ESB? :?


Post Posted: September 21st 2004 11:17 am
 
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Isn't the point that Vader has been hiding stuff from Palpatine?
Anakin obviously knows in Ep3 that Padme is pregnant, he knows he's going to be a father but Palpatine doesn't until that hologram chat (Obi Wan says that if Palpatine knew Anakin had children they'd be a threat)

The good that Luke feels inside him, that's the feeling Vader has for his kids. That's the reason why Vader didn't kill him on Cloud City but Luke fucks up in RotJ when he banks on the fact that Vader won't take him to the Emperor. By that stage it's too late, Vader has to give him up because the Emperor has set up the whole scheme to catch Luke himself.


Post Posted: September 21st 2004 11:46 am
 
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Hmm, I see your point. Still, it kind of goes against the grain that Vader/Anakin is supposed to be the most powerful Force-wielder in the Universe, rivaled possibly only by Luke...I can't imagine that Palpatine would think nothing of the fact that his trusted lieutenant had no clue about this.


Post Posted: September 21st 2004 11:51 am
 

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FusionAddict wrote:
Still, it kind of goes against the grain that Vader/Anakin is supposed to be the most powerful Force-wielder in the Universe, rivaled possibly only by Luke...

What?

Anakin would've been, if he wasn't a cripple, thanks to Obi-Wan.
[spoiler]Obi Wan has more experience, but Anakin is more powerful[/spoiler]


Post Posted: September 21st 2004 3:34 pm
 
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FusionAddict wrote:
I can't imagine that Palpatine would think nothing of the fact that his trusted lieutenant had no clue about this.


Well I think Palpatine does think something is a bit sketchy after ESB when Vader returns empty handed. That's when Palpatine involves himself directly, he has the location of the Death Star leaked so the Rebels will attack it, he knows Luke will give himself up, he knows Vader's feelings on the matter aren't clear, he won't tell Vader the whole plan about the ambush at Endor....he knows something is up so he basically takes over.


Post Posted: September 21st 2004 6:55 pm
 

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LyricalPharaoh wrote:
The Problem is Luke doesn't live up to all the hype surrounding his abilities.

Compared with Lightsaber scenes of the PT Luke looks like such the rookie on the sail barge. he even gets his hand shot...geez.

What problem? :roll:

He's an amatuer because he's been trained for like 2 weeks by an old Jedi.
It's not the hey-day of the Jedi anymore bud.


Post Posted: September 21st 2004 8:19 pm
 
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LyricalPharaoh wrote:
The Problem is Luke doesn't live up to all the hype surrounding his abilities.

Compared with Lightsaber scenes of the PT Luke looks like such the rookie on the sail barge. he even gets his hand shot...geez.


He looks like a rookie because he probably is a rookie with the blade.
For all we know the last time he was in a fight (certainly the last on screen) with a lightsaber he had his frigging hand sliced off. If Luke is strong in any way, it's in his "moral fibre" that allows him to resist the Dark Side time and again. All he has to do is keep getting punished and not give up. In that sense, Luke is far stronger than his father.


Post Posted: September 21st 2004 8:20 pm
 
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Insert Username wrote:
Isn't the point that Vader has been hiding stuff from Palpatine?


That's what I always assumed.

*waves his hand*

There is no continuity error here.

*waves his hand*

You may move along.


Post Posted: September 21st 2004 9:55 pm
 

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Insert Username wrote:
Well I think Palpatine does think something is a bit sketchy after ESB when Vader returns empty handed. That's when Palpatine involves himself directly, he has the location of the Death Star leaked so the Rebels will attack it, he knows Luke will give himself up, he knows Vader's feelings on the matter aren't clear, he won't tell Vader the whole plan about the ambush at Endor....he knows something is up so he basically takes over.





SPOILER WARNING - Highlight to read...

Never quite thought of it that way, myself. But it makes a lot of sense. Does explain why the Emperor finally gets his feet wet instead of letting his lackeys do that dirty work. As far as we know, it's sorta the same reason he has to fight in ROTS. When something poses a threat to his WELL LAID AND EXECUTED, YEARS OF PLANNING, he has to take action.

Dooku tries to manuerve behind his back and turn Obi-Wan to his side, so he puts himself in danger (though I'm sure he never thought of it like that) by staging the kidnapping to bring Anakin to kill Dooku. Mace and Yoda figure him out and confront him, and he has to fight them. Vader tries to manuerve behind his back and he puts himself in danger (though he never thought of it that way) to bring Luke to himself on the Death Star. But other than those occasions, it's Maul searching for the Queen, it's Dooku posing as Sifo-Dyas to order the clones, it's Vader and Tarkin destroying Alderaan to learn of the rebels location. It's Vader hunting down "the son of skywalker" to bring him to him - until he figures out that Vader's feelings aren't clear on that particular matter.


Very interesting.


Post Posted: September 21st 2004 10:20 pm
 
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LyricalPharaoh wrote:
I love how we find excuses for bad choreography and execution.


I don't follow. Now you're saying Luke is capable of fighting like a PT Jedi and it's only poor fight choreography on the production side of things that makes him look like a rookie? :?


Post Posted: September 21st 2004 10:38 pm
 

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Vanda wrote:
Insert Username wrote:
Well I think Palpatine does think something is a bit sketchy after ESB when Vader returns empty handed. That's when Palpatine involves himself directly, he has the location of the Death Star leaked so the Rebels will attack it, he knows Luke will give himself up, he knows Vader's feelings on the matter aren't clear, he won't tell Vader the whole plan about the ambush at Endor....he knows something is up so he basically takes over.



Never quite thought of it that way, myself... CENSORED ...until he figures out that Vader's feelings aren't clear on that particular matter.

Very interesting.


DUDE! This is the OT forum, not the ROTS Spoiler Forum. I stopped reading your post in the middle (yeah, I'm trying to stay a little out of the loop.) A little warning next time, please.


Post Posted: September 21st 2004 11:06 pm
 
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I thought watching the two old farts battle it out on the Death Star was the fucking funniest thing ever. :lol: How bad did Vader and Obi-Wan get in the lightsaber skills over the years :mrgreen:


Post Posted: September 22nd 2004 6:44 am
 

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Ayatollah Krispies wrote:
DUDE! This is the OT forum, not the ROTS Spoiler Forum. I stopped reading your post in the middle (yeah, I'm trying to stay a little out of the loop.) A little warning next time, please.


Ah, shit, my bad! Sorry! I hardly ever post outside the spoiler forum so I lost track. :(

Can you edit your reply so my post isn't visible? Thanks.


Post Posted: September 22nd 2004 7:57 am
 

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read the book after episode 4 dont know what it's called but vader gets a force lightning attack by sidious becoz he let the death star be destroyed and hence sidious tells vader that luke skywalker was the one who destroyed the death star


Post Posted: September 22nd 2004 8:46 am
 

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LyricalPharaoh wrote:
I love how we find excuses for bad choreography and execution.

:opalol Choreography?
Do you even know what you're talking about?

"How to dig a BIGGER hole, by LyricalPharoah!"


Post Posted: September 22nd 2004 4:41 pm
 

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Isn't the Emporers original dialouge in the scene, "We have a new enemy. Luke Skywalker." We have all observed and noted that Vader calls Luke by name earlier in the movie, so we know he knows who he and and thereby would know that Luke is his son, since there are no other Skywalkers. If the Emporer mentions Luke by name, he would have to know something is up since he would beleive there are no more Skywalkers. So the scene actually hasn't changed at all; those who have seen the PT will know that Anakin is Vader, so it will look like he's hiding something from the Emporer when he says, "How is that possible?" Those who have not seen the PT, or don't care, will not yet know that Anakin IS Vader, so the scene will still be vauge, and it will make more sense, since the Emporer will then be seen as telling Vader that Luke is Anakins son and a possible danger givne that Vader "killed" Anakin, instead of dropping a name he already knows as if he's never heard it before.


Post Posted: September 22nd 2004 11:20 pm
 

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PTGrievous wrote:
LyricalPharaoh wrote:
I love how we find excuses for bad choreography and execution.

:opalol Choreography?
Do you even know what you're talking about?

"How to dig a BIGGER hole, by LyricalPharoah!"


The staging of fight sequences (including swordfight or lightsaber fight sequences) in films is often referred to as choreography. It's not a term restricted to dancing.


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