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Post Posted: May 17th 2006 4:03 pm
 
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Over at The Digital Bits, Bill Hunt is reporting that he's "confirmed" that the unaltered OT discs will be non-anamorphic.

DarthFirst, if you're out there, have you heard anything to that effect?


http://www.thedigitalbits.com

[hr]
(EARLY UPDATE - 5/17/06 - 1:15 PM PDT)

Well... things are a little interesting around here today.

We've confirmed something today (directly with both Fox and Lucasfilm) that we'd begun to suspect... and it's probably going to disappoint a lot of you. It certainly disappoints us here at The Bits. Those new DVD editions of the Star Wars films? The original theatrical versions of the films are going to be non-anamorphic (our original post on this indicated otherwise, but we have confirmed that the widescreen versions will be letterboxed only). What this likely means is that Lucasfilm has simply re-purposed the non-anamorphic transfers that were done for previous laserdisc and VHS releases of the "original" versions of the films. And with that, our enthusiasm for this DVD release has just dropped through the floor. Anamorphic-enhanced versions of the theatrical editions, we'd buy in a heartbeat. But what we're going to get instead is little better than a ported-over laserdisc. In this day and age, releasing a widescreen film without anamorphic enhancement on DVD is just unacceptable. Does Lucasfilm really think fans want those versions of the films on DVD so badly that people just won't care? Yes Virginia, they do. How many versions of these films do you suppose Lucasfilm will try to get fans to buy in high-def over the coming years? And think about it... you just know the studio has to be prepping yet another standard DVD release for next year's 30th Anniversary of the original Star Wars. Do you suppose this means that the theatrical editions won't be included in the super-über box set of all six films? Probably. Ugh.

Line up like Jersey cows and grease up yer teats, Force fans. Or better yet... run for the south forty as fast as your hooves'll carry you. Stampede!

On the subject of Apocalypse Now today, a lot of you have been asking what aspect ratio the films included in the 2-disc Complete Dossier DVD release will be in. Apparently, some are displeased with the fact that while the films were shot in 2.35:1, they've seldom been released on video at that exact ratio. Confirmation from both Paramount and director Francis Ford Coppola's American Zoetrope (see this link) indicates that the film's cinematographer, Vittorio Storaro, prefers that Apocalypse Now be exhibited on video at the slightly cropped widescreen ratio of 2.0:1 (as was the case on the previous DVD releases). Coppola agrees with this decision, so that's what you'll get on the DVD. While it wouldn't be our choice, it's hard to argue with the director and DP. Thankfully, however, both versions of the film on the new DVD will be in anamorphic widescreen (unlike some OTHER forthcoming and much-beloved films on disc).

Around the site today, we've finally updated The Winner's Circle for those of you who have been wondering who's won our recent contests.

Speaking of Contests, we've kicked off a new one today, giving each of you the chance to win copies of Universal's The Producers on disc. This contest will run until Noon (Pacific) on Sunday, May 21st. Click on the link to get started and good luck!

Okay, for those of you who have been patiently awaiting Barrie's column, we'll be back with that shortly. As you can imagine, getting this Star Wars DVD news confirmed took priority this morning.


[hr]


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 4:48 pm
 
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So they'll be standard letterbox. Umm that's how they were originally presented weren't they?? Geez, you people are getting exactly what you've wanted over these years, the unaltered original Star Wars Trilogy (even the unaltered video and audio aspects) and all you can continue to do is bitch and complain.

Edit: By the way most of my DVD's say 2.35:1 for the original thearatical aspect ratio. I think I only have two or three DVD's that says "enhanced for 16:9 TV's". Most of your DVD's today don't have that enhancement. So I still don't understand why people are complaining about this.

Also you guys that are bitching and complaining about this are proving Lucas point when he said that he's doing this to see who really wants the set. You're finally getting what you have wanted over the years but all there is just whining and complaining. Geez..


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 5:13 pm
 

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Raveers wrote:
By the way most of my DVD's say 2.35:1 for the original thearatical aspect ratio. I think I only have two or three DVD's that says "enhanced for 16:9 TV's". Most of your DVD's today don't have that enhancement. So I still don't understand why people are complaining about this.


That's probably because you don't know what you're talking about. Anamorphic is pretty much the rule these days, not the exception.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 5:17 pm
 
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Quote:
Edit: By the way most of my DVD's say 2.35:1 for the original thearatical aspect ratio. I think I only have two or three DVD's that says "enhanced for 16:9 TV's". Most of your DVD's today don't have that enhancement. So I still don't understand why people are complaining about this.


What the hell are you talking about? I haven't seen a single DVD of a movie filmed in a widescreen format that WASN'T in anamorphic format in about 4 years. It is an industry standard to release widescreen material in Anamorphic format. Anything less is pure laziness. All it takes to make a DVD release anamorphic is a simple click of a button in the DVD mastering process. If this news is true, then there is no restoration going on at all and the anamorphic format would have literally blown up all of those crappy picture errors and made them even more evident. For those of us with 16X9 monitors, this is about the worst news that could have possibly come with this release.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 5:22 pm
 

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obi-ben wrote:
For those of us with 16X9 monitors, this is about the worst news that could have possibly come with this release.


Well, I don't know about that. I'm kind of waiting to hear that the original cuts are being mastered not only to fit onto DVD-5s but also to leave room for the Xbox demos. Then we'll know for sure that LFL is just crapping these things out.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 5:24 pm
 

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I have no problem with the standard letterbox format. There are still alot of people out there that don't have 16x9 sets. All I can say is that letterbox and anamprphic are neither good or bad in my opinion. There are pros and cons on both fronts depending on what your viewing display is capable of.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 5:36 pm
 
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There are pros and cons on both fronts depending on what your viewing display is capable of.


True, but even on a non-anamorphic display, picture quality is improved with an anamorphic release. Of course, when you do upgrade to 16X9, then you'll be forced to watch the DVDs in an idiotic stretch mode that will throw all of the ratios out of whack. Either that, or you'll have to watch an image the size of a fucking postage stamp in the middle of your beautiful 60" plasma with black bars surrounding the entire image.

Sounds like shit to me.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 5:38 pm
 
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Well if you're not happy by it then don't buy it and quit complaining about it. There's no point in continuing to complain about this. :roll:


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 5:42 pm
 
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$60-90 for non-anamorphic LD ports slapped onto a supplemental disc with Xbox demos and other crap? No thanks, I'll be fine with my LDs. What a gigantic waste of hype. Now we'll find out whether they really wanted the original or whether they'd rather not buy shit that isn't any better than what they already have, right George?

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Post Posted: May 17th 2006 5:45 pm
 
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Raveers wrote:
Well if you're not happy by it then don't buy it and quit complaining about it. There's no point in continuing to complain about this. :roll:


Don't bother, I've gathered that some people enjoy being aggressive, offensive, angry, etc.

---

A non-anamorphic transfer means lessened resolution because portions of the frame will be reserved for our beloved black bars rather than additional picture information that is typically squeezed to fit the 2.35:1 ratio. :schoolyou:


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 5:51 pm
 
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Well if you're not happy by it then don't buy it and quit complaining about it. There's no point in continuing to complain about this.


There's plenty of reason to complain. Enough noise was made about the original versions to grant a release in the first place. Perhaps if enough people complain about the lack of an anamorphic transfer, someone will step up to the plate and get that done for this release.

I have hope that this oversight will be corrected before the the discs are pressed. And of course, if they are non-anamorphic, I won't buy them. Why would I buy something that I already have on Laserdisc? I can see non-anamorphic OT anytime I want right now.

The whole point of people wanting an OT release on DVD was to see the originals in great quality utilizing the technology that DVD offers. Not putting them in anamorphic format negates the entire point of this release.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 6:08 pm
 

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obi-ben wrote:
The whole point of people wanting an OT release on DVD was to see the originals in great quality utilizing the technology that DVD offers. Not putting them in anamorphic format negates the entire point of this release.


I'm sorry to be the one to say it, but people are missing the point of this release. In 2004 we got a boxed set with a bonus disc; in 2005 we got a stripped down box set with no bonus disc; and now this year we're getting individual discs for the first time. In order to pad out this year's releases, and also to appease some demand, an extra disc with the unaltered cut is being added. But I'm fairly convinced that the desire to appease anyone was secondary. We're just being given something that LFL had on the shelves, for no more cost to them than it requires to press the discs. Yeah, the initial hype was "we're finally doing it," but given that we're on the 3rd release of these things, what else were they supposed to say? This is most likely just the latest step in a marketing plan that was launched 2 years ago.

The complaints about cover art are probably the most funny thing I've read in this thread. There wasn't a chance in hell that they'd use the original posters. That would have been like designing the 2004 set to reflect the material on the bonus disc. These original cuts are supplements. They'll probably rate only a mention on the back cover.

The second most funny thing has to be all the comments early on about how Lucas went back on his pledge never to release the unaltered cuts. As each piece of news comes out, we're seeing just how little he cares about these versions.

And yet everyone reading this thread is going to line up on the day of release to buy them anyway.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 6:12 pm
 
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Ayatollah Krispies wrote:
And yet everyone reading this thread is going to line up on the day of release to buy them anyway.


I believe that as well. All those who are complaining and whining about this I bet will end up buying the set secretly. You can just say about anything on the net and most of the time people will believe you.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 6:15 pm
 
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We're just being given something that LFL had on the shelves, for no more cost to them than it requires to press the discs.


I agree with everything you just said. let me amend my previous statement. The reason why people wanted an OT release on DVD was to see the OT in great DVD quality utilizing all the improvements that DVD can offer. Anamorphic transfer included. Lucasfilm used it as an excuse to recycle some old stuff to sell more discs. Now if someone sells me something I want for reasons contrary to my own, I don't have a problem with that. However, if they try to sell me something that I don't want and try to pass it off as what I asked for, then that I DO have a problem with. I just feel like the whole release is bogus. If someone hadn't asked the anamorphic question, Lucasfilm would have never brought it up. At least now I know not to waste my time and money.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 6:19 pm
 
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Remember for now this is a rumor. The Digital Bits might end up changing their news as time gets closer to the release.

Why not just sit back and wait until we can get real stuff leaked out by DarthFirst?


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 6:19 pm
 
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Interesting news and certainly not what my contact has told me. My advice is for everyone to petition Lucasfilm NOW in every way possible - if this IS the case, the DLT masters will be locked down within the next 4 weeks or so (I am guessing) - so the fan community should act quickly to convince them to change this. Spread the word. I'll update you with anything I hear.

This is ridiculous if it's true.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 6:24 pm
 

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obi-ben wrote:
The reason why people wanted an OT release on DVD was to see the OT in great DVD quality utilizing all the improvements that DVD can offer. Anamorphic transfer included.


Oh sure, I agree. This (most likely) just isn't that.

DarthFirst wrote:
Interesting news and certainly not what my contact has told me.


That's what I gathered from what you've said earlier, but I wonder if there's not some serious spin control going on behind the scenes. Let's not forget that one of Jim Ward's first public comments was that these would be state-of-the-art circa 1993.


The_Somnambulist wrote:
OCD unchecked.


That's hilarious, coming from you. I get the feeling a fart doesn't escape your ass without first filling out a request form in triplicate.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 6:43 pm
 

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I think the complainers have a legitimate point on this. Anamorphic widescreen is pretty much the accepted standard on most DVDs these days (and has been for at least the past three or so years). All LFL has to do to make them anamorphic is push a button during the DVD mastering process. It's pretty much that simple.

That being said, I don't believe this rumor. It doesn't make sense compared to LFL's DVD track record.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 6:54 pm
 
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thecolorsblend wrote:
I think the complainers have a legitimate point on this. Anamorphic widescreen is pretty much the accepted standard on most DVDs these days (and has been for at least the past three or so years). All LFL has to do to make them anamorphic is push a button during the DVD mastering process. It's pretty much that simple.

That being said, I don't believe this rumor. It doesn't make sense compared to LFL's DVD track record.


Good point there. They've released the Prequels and the 2004 DVD set in anamorphic. I bet there's no way in hell they'd stop doing that just for this release, it really wouldn't make sense.

I just would rather wait as time gets closer to the DVD release to get more legit confirmation.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 8:06 pm
 

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Well, the origional theactrical formats were released in "Anamorphic Scope", and it would make sence to follow suit and release the O-OT dvd's in "Anamorphic Widescreen".


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 9:54 pm
 
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Wait... so these are going to have both altered and unaltered versions on each release? Shit. Skimmed way to fast through all this. Ok, skip the whole original cover art idea further up.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 10:07 pm
 

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I wonder if they'll tinker with the other disk as well [The 'Special Edition' Disks ala the previous release ones]

Goddammit, all I want is Yoda in Episode I fixed up and a PT Box set and I'm done!


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 10:18 pm
 
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Biggs wrote:
I wonder if they'll tinker with the other disk as well [The 'Special Edition' Disks ala the previous release ones]

Goddammit, all I want is Yoda in Episode I fixed up and a PT Box set and I'm done!


I think they said the 2004 sets are exact duplicates of what we have all ready.

As far as any more tinkering goes for the OT (which I seriously do NOT mind at all) it's possible they'll have all the audio and video portions for the current editions fixed for next year's big saga box set. Also as far as the new CG Yoda for Ep I you'll have to wait until next year for that.

One I side note I hope they do give TPM and AOTC new digital transfers (especially TPM!) for next year's box set.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 10:24 pm
 
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AOTC is a straight digital transfer.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 11:14 pm
 
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But it will look even better if it got cleaned up a bit.

Hell look at Reloaded from The Matrix 10 disc gift set that too got a new transfer and it looked better than when it first came out on DVD.


Post Posted: May 17th 2006 11:24 pm
 
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How would AOTC look better? The DVD is created directly from the digital source.


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 12:19 am
 
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Quote:
ETAndElliot4Ever
How would AOTC look better? The DVD is created directly from the digital source.


It will match that of ROTS. I can still see the differences between the two transfers. As I said too The Matrix Reloaded got a new transfer and that was made from a digital camera but it looked a whole lot better after it got the new transfer.

Anyhow in other news....

Mr. Hunt at Digitalbits still claims that the movies are going to be non-anamorphic. According to this here he "confirmed" it with reps at both Lucasfilm and Fox.

Well as it stands I still am going to pass this on as a rumor. I would rather wait until we can get closer to the DVD release to get more concreat information. Hopefully DarthFirst you can supply us with this.

Still though all this uproar just because the movies might be in non-anamorphic is a bit immature imho.


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 12:47 am
 

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Raveers, in what way could AOTC be "cleaned up" so as to resemble ROTS? To me, the transfers are pretty close in terms of how clean they look. Compare that to TPM, which looked like an animated JPG (yes, I know no such thing exists, it's just a metaphor).

Also, as far as I know the Matrix sequels were shot using good ol fashioned 35mm film. Likewise, I read somewhere that the transfers for Reloaded and Revolutions were the same on each DVD release. Were you perhaps thinking of the 1st Matrix? That *did* look a lot better, but the original was shot on a comparatively lower budget and the film stocks the crew used may not have necessarily been tops. But then, they did a lot more than just remaster it, they played around with a LOT of the color timing of it to make it better match the sequels (an effort I think was quite successful). Plus DVD compression technology had improved by leaps and bounds in the ensuing four or five years.


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 1:08 am
 

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Raveers wrote:
Well as it stands I still am going to pass this on as a rumor.


What part of "the news is absolutely true by the way. We've confirmed it specifically with reps of both Lucasfilm and Fox. It is no rumor" did you not understand?

No offense, dude, but you've spent a good part of the last 24 hours displaying some pretty powerful ignorance of details regarding DVDs. Bill Hunt, on the other hand, has been running that website for awhile, has quality connections and knows what he's talking about. You may continue to feel free to "pass this on as a rumor" but just don't expect anyone to rally round your flag.


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 1:14 am
 
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:roll:

Unless if the news comes from StarWars.com or from here I really don't trust any other source, that is my perogative.

As I said too I would rather wait until we can get more confirmation regarding this.

Edit: Anyone on the net these days can say they've "confirmed" something with some big company.


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 1:24 am
 

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Raveers wrote:
Anyone on the net these days can say they've "confirmed" something with some big company.


Bill Hunt's track record proves that he's trustworthy. You, on the other hand, apparently didn't even know what "anamorphic" meant before today, so pardon me if I don't subscribe to your opinion of the validity of the complaints.


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 1:27 am
 
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What exactly did LFL return to the Archives to search exhaustively for? I can't believe the jackass fanboi in me was fooled into thinking they'd actually be putting effort into this release.


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 1:34 am
 
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Ayatollah Krispies wrote:

Bill Hunt's track record proves that he's trustworthy. You, on the other hand, apparently didn't even know what "anamorphic" meant before today, so pardon me if I don't subscribe to your opinion of the validity of the complaints.


Well excuse-fucking-me if I didn't know the term really well before today. Unlike a lot of you here I am not up on the whole technical aspects when it comes to a DVD. So don't jump all over my back for not knowing the term for "anamorphic" really well. I do know the difference now yes but as far as Bill Hunt's "confirmation", I am going to wait until we get closer to the release date to get more concreat information.

This is what I mean by all this uproar is immature just because the films may or may not be in anamorphic. :roll:


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 1:46 am
 

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Raveers wrote:
So don't jump all over my back for not knowing the term for "anamorphic" really well.


Yet somehow that didn't keep you from immediately weighing in and dismissing everyone's complaints. Yeah, remember how just about nine hours ago you were saying:

Quote:
So they'll be standard letterbox. Umm that's how they were originally presented weren't they?? Geez, you people are getting exactly what you've wanted over these years, the unaltered original Star Wars Trilogy (even the unaltered video and audio aspects) and all you can continue to do is bitch and complain.

Edit: By the way most of my DVD's say 2.35:1 for the original thearatical aspect ratio. I think I only have two or three DVD's that says "enhanced for 16:9 TV's". Most of your DVD's today don't have that enhancement. So I still don't understand why people are complaining about this.


Funny, whether it was a rumor or not didn't seem to bother you at all. Then you slowly learned that you were full of shit, and now it's something you refuse to believe until Lucas whispers it in your ear.

Quote:
I am going to wait until we get closer to the release date to get more concreat information.


That's a fine approach to the matter. How about if you really back it up by shutting the fuck up about it until that time? You've been doing more general bitching than anyone else in this thread, and you don't even know what the fuck you're talking about.


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 2:56 am
 
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This is part of what Bill Hunt of The Digital Bits.com had to say...

    Guys, I wish I was wrong about this, but I've confirmed it with people we all know at both Lucasfilm and Fox. I just don't post names on The Bits because executives seldom like to be called out by name, especially on a subject this touchy.

    In any case, as it now stands (and unless something changes dramatically), these transfers will be non-anamorphic. My understanding is that they're the same basic transfers that were used for the 1993 Definitive Collection laserdisc box set, with some digital clean-up and other tweaks (for example, the opening crawl for A New Hope will be changed to its 1977 version).

    Which is ironic, because the only other time we've officially seen that opening crawl text on video is on the Empire of Dreams documentary from the 2005 DVD box set... in anamorphic widescreen.


So perhaps First's source wasn't all that wrong. Hopefully DarthFirst will be "first" again with the OUT DVDs just like he was before with the 2004 Editions Set and the Episode III DVD.

My view is, you can always download them.


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 6:38 am
 

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I guess if your computer savy enough you could always anamprphicly squeeze your own set.; but i'm not too shure about the quality issue there. This would be a good question for the XO project.


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Lord Caldid wrote:
Funny how Bill Hunt claims that he "started a firestorm" when he didn't do anything but just report the cover art in the recent days.


it seems we've started a bit of a firestorm with this business we posted yesterday about the original versions of the Star Wars films on the forthcoming (9/12) DVD release being offered in non-anamorphic widescreen video only.

Too busy to read complete sentences?


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 10:02 am
 
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I'm sure he did read the rest of the article. However, not everyone here believes what Bill Hunt says. So don't go blasting people because some don't believe this guy.

Most of us are going to wait until time gets closer to get more concreat evidence and hopefully when DarthFirst starts to leak us screencaps, short clips and detailed info.

darthpsychotic wrote:
So perhaps First's source wasn't all that wrong. Hopefully DarthFirst will be "first" again with the OUT DVDs just like he was before with the 2004 Editions Set and the Episode III DVD.

My view is, you can always download them.



Hopefully you're right about that and yes I agree you can always download them.


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 10:33 am
 
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Bill Hunt comes off as a whiny bitch in that article. He also sounds like most of the lame-ass sheep who will always find somehting to bitch about.

"Oh please George, just release the barebones O-OT." I can promise you Bill Hunt has typed that before. Which makes all his crying of the past few days completely hypocritical.

Then the cover art isn't right.

Then the anamorphic transfer isn't right.


Shut the fuck up, already. The true O-OT came out when the term "anamorphic" didn't exist and the best sound we could get was a 2.0 transfer. So if you truly want to duplicate the experience of the movies that came out in 1977, 1980 and 1983, then this is what you have not only asked for, but are getting. Fucking hypocrites....beg and beg for years for something, then they get it and all they can do is cry like a little kid.

Once again, the big joke here is this: How can you tell a Star Wars fan is bitching? His/her lips are moving.

Being a Star Wars fan would be so much better without the Internet.


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 10:39 am
 
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royalguard96 wrote:
Being a Star Wars fan would be so much better without the Internet.


I am begining to believe this too...

With the internet these days to many people get fed information and then are worried about certain products and other stupid shit.

As I said before all this uproar whether or not the OUT DVD's might or might not be in enhanced anamorphic is pure stupid and immature.


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royalguard96 wrote:
Shut the fuck up, already. The true O-OT came out when the term "anamorphic" didn't exist and the best sound we could get was a 2.0 transfer. So if you truly want to duplicate the experience of the movies that came out in 1977, 1980 and 1983, then this is what you have not only asked for, but are getting. Fucking hypocrites....beg and beg for years for something, then they get it and all they can do is cry like a little kid.


If you don't have any idea what the fuck you're talking about -- and this is directed at Raveers as well, who seems bound and detemined to prove that he's a clueless asshole -- it's YOU who should shut the fuck up.

True, anamorphic widescreen didn't exist in 1977. That's because widescreen TV didn't exist in 1977. Today it does. And today, people who actually give a shit about the viewing experience they get at home base their purchases on whether or not a disc features anamorphic widescreen. That's why, within just a few years of the launch of the DVD format, it has become the standard rather than the exception.

The home video market is driven by consumers who want the best they can get. It's not driven by people willing to settle for half-assed releases; if it were, VHS would still be ruling the roost.

You don't want anamorphic? You don't have the slightest clue what anamorphic means? Fine. But that sure as fuck doesn't mean that Bill Hunt is wrong, and it doesn't mean that the millions of consumers who do know what it is, and who have come to expect it on any major release should just throw up their hands and say "gosh, I'm happy for anything I get!" -- especially when these 2-disc sets include one disc that they likely already own.

And while I won't battle to my death insisting that Bill Hunt has never been wrong, I think it's pretty clear to everyone that he's contributed a fuck of a lot more to this discussion than you two dipshits.


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 11:00 am
 
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You're the one who's acting like an ass hole right now Ayatollah, quit getting your panties in a wad.


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 11:18 am
 

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Lord Caldid wrote:
My VHS releases has been the CBS/FOX releases, and the FACES THX releases.

My only SW DVD purchase has been the 2004 box set. Even I know better not to buy stripped versions of the 04 DVDs. That shows that I have more brainpower than some areas of the SW community. You know why? because why would I want to buy every reissue that Lucas wants to do?


What truly fascinating information. Did I lend you the mistaken impression that I give a fuck?


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 12:03 pm
 
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What did I tell all you fools...

you're going to get the same crap that you bought on LD or on video in 1995. Did any of you really think Lucas would spend the additional time restoring and mastering versions of the films he pretends don't even exist?

You pay for what you get and the cover art is even more embarassing than the initial releases.

End your mindless crybaby debate.

Fact: The fact that these films aren't being released in anamorphic widescreen with a new master and restoration is unforgiveable by industry standards. I don't care if you don't have an HD-TV or not, if you make a car are you not going to include air conditioning?

Counterpoint: Lucasfilm is not a giant studio that has endless resources at its disposal. Unlike other studios that can afford to listen to fan protest and requests, LFL cannot just mobilize and pay for a restoration team to complete a major project like this in just a short period of time. Moreover, because of the worldwide and overwhelming popularity of Star Wars, LFL has to deal with a fanbase that's essentially unpleaseable. From a business POV, it's not in LFL's interest to produce an expensive OOT release. From a marketing POV, LFL is very right when they say that the number of people that desire this release is narrow. People aren't going to run to this release in herds; contrary to the way some internet movie-nerds think, not many people give a fuck about the special editions.


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 12:22 pm
 

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CoGro wrote:
What did I tell all you fools.....

you're going to get the same crap that you bought on LD or on video in 1995.


True as this is, there's arguably a valid marketing reason to re-release this now 11-year-old material, especially since it'll be on a format that didn't exist then. Even if LFL does just crap it out, there are probably quite a few people whose home video collections began in the DVD era and who have never had a chance at this stuff. I certainly wouldn't recommend to any of these people that they should instead invest in a laserdisc player and then attempt to hunt down the Definitive Collection. It's just too bad that it has to be presented in such a manner that it will once again have us saying "maybe next time they'll get it right"...

Quote:
Counterpoint: Lucasfilm is not a giant studio that has endless resources at its disposal.


LFL isn't going to go broke on Star Wars, and even if there were a chance of losing money on this release, I'm sure they could make Fox eat the cost.


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 12:28 pm
 
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Ayatollah Krispies wrote:

True as this is, there's arguably a valid marketing reason to re-release this now 11-year-old material, especially since it'll be on a format that didn't exist then. Even if LFL does just crap it out, there are probably quite a few people whose home video collections began in the DVD era and who have never had a chance at this stuff. I certainly wouldn't recommend to any of these people that they should instead invest in a laserdisc player and then attempt to hunt down the Definitive Collection. It's just too bad that it has to be presented in such a manner that it will once again have us saying "maybe next time they'll get it right"...


It has nothing to do with that.

Read my post above yours.

I think there's this misguided common understanding that the people who run LFL are basically 'clueless' or perhaps worse a 'bunch of money grubbing assholes'. What people fail to understand is that LFL is not Paramount Pictures or even 20th Century Fox. They're a pretty big company, but don't come close to commanding the financial resources that other big studios can. It's not a wise business decision to invest in a project that would not guarantee significant return, especially since LFL can only lean on a few projects; Star Wars, Indiana Jones to name a few from the very short list.

People are thinking too close-minded without a reasonable understanding of the economical concerns that go into releasing a product.


Ayatollah Krispies wrote:
LFL isn't going to go broke on Star Wars, and even if there were a chance of losing money on this release, I'm sure they could make Fox eat the cost.

Sure. You can say this, it isn't your money.

Yeah, sure Fox would eat the cost of a multi-million dollar restoration.


EDIT: Anyone want to guess whether or not you'll be getting new special DVD menus for the OOT DVDs?


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 12:36 pm
 

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CoGro wrote:
Sure. You can say this, it isn't your money.


I can say this because their marketing promo for this release brags about the $16 billion+ that Star Wars has generated.

LFL was somehow able to handle the costs to do the SEs back in the mid 90's when the only Star Wars products generating money for them were VHS, laserdiscs and EU books, so I doubt they're sweating this release. As it is, they're releasing these new sets with an SRP of $29.95; the "bonus" disc is hardly that. We're paying for it. And if that money's not going toward a remaster of the OUT (probably not) or a remaster of the 2004 discs (definitely not), then where is it going? To the guy who did the new photo collages?


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 1:03 pm
 
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What you fail to understand is that this release was not planned by LFL as a profit-generating campaign. Frankly I dont know why I'm continuing this, but your logic fails to consider a number of factors that have nothing to do with simply producing and releasing these movies.

Ayatollah Krispies wrote:
LFL was somehow able to handle the costs to do the SEs back in the mid 90's when the only Star Wars products generating money for them were VHS, laserdiscs and EU books, so I doubt they're sweating this release.


Now and then are two very different time periods. Then, Lucasfilm was struggling and needed to spend money to make money. The THX mastered editions/SEs were an investment on Lucas's part to detect if money could still be made from the brand and hence go along with the PT project. Like any other movie ever made, part of the motivation for making the PT was simply put to make money.

Quote:
I can say this because their marketing promo for this release brags about the $16 billion+ that Star Wars has generated.

And you think this money is sitting in a Swiss Bank account for Lucas to dip into when he feels like it? Or do you think this is all liquid? Lucasfilm has no costs of its own? No profit sharing with any of its affiliates? That number is irrelevant to your point. It's probably the most moot thing you've written in this thread.
This is a promo for retailers as a standard method for any company to sell their product to them for distribution. You have no point here.

Quote:
As it is, they're releasing these new sets with an SRP of $29.95; the "bonus" disc is hardly that. We're paying for it. And if that money's not going toward a remaster of the OUT (probably not) or a remaster of the 2004 discs (definitely not), then where is it going? To the guy who did the new photo collages?


Again, a company cannot invest on a project in which no market is specifically defined. You don't know, and neither does LFL, how much revenue this release will generate. How do you do market research for a special release of a movie that's already out on the market? Internet petitions? Reading messageboards? What does that amount to...you tell me if you honestly think millions and millions of fans will actually run out and buy this release if they already own the 04 DVDs. If you think this new set will explode, you're dead wrong.

The money generated from this release would barely, if at all, cover the cost of a lengthy and costly restoration process that LFL is not prepared to do without guaranteed returns. And don't say 'well, it WOULD sell if they took the time to do a proper job' because that's a counterfactual. IF lets say, this release is BIGGER than the 04 release, I will guarantee you see a remastered edition of OUT in the future. It may seem cheap to you, but that's the way businesses work. This release is nothing more than a test run to detect if there's a market for a certain product, no different a tool than the SE was for the PT.


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 1:12 pm
 
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What exactly did LFL return to the Archives to search exhaustively for? Laserdisc masters? In retrospect, what does that even mean?


Post Posted: May 18th 2006 1:31 pm
 

Join: August 6th 2004 6:29 am
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CoGro wrote:
Again, a company cannot invest on a project in which no market is specifically defined. You don't know, and neither does LFL, how much revenue this release will generate


There's plenty of precedent from which LFL can make educated guesses, and I'm not even talking previous Star Wars releases alone (from which they can probably draw the conclusion that there is a core audience that would buy Lucas's used TP if it were presented in a nice shrinkwrapped package). The Bond films have been issued 3 times on DVD. The Godfather Trilogy started life on DVD as a box set and then gradually moved to individual releases. The Star Trek films have been released twice. Each of the LOTR films were released twice only months apart. Evil Dead II has been released 11,000 times. Many new DVDs these days are shipping simultaneously in single-disc and "collector's edition" versions. One thing that the DVD market has proven over and over again is that it supports multiple variants of popular films, and especially popular film series. Are you really trying to tell us that there's some tentative feeling over a new release of the highest-grossing film series ever? With this one containing a variation that fans have specifically asked for? Come on. The only thing that could seriously negatively impact these discs is the kind of public criticism that's going on right now -- but that's something for which LFL only has themselves to blame.

CoGro wrote:
The money generated from this release would barely, if at all, cover the cost of a lengthy and costly restoration process


No one has been talking about a "lengthy and costly restoration process." We're talking about making these discs anamorphic. It's in the thread title.


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