The Music of III

[CoGro]

I feel like discussing this.

My take on both the musc and the score, which are separate entities.

The music (what was written for THIS film) is gorgeous. Battle of the Heroes is not only a great Star Wars theme, but a stirring piece of music. Anakin's Betrayal, Grievous' theme and the action pieces are all very well done and much more thematic than AOTC and definately more reminiscent of Williams' OT scores. The old themes and cues mixed into the tracks add alot of flavour to the freshness of the music. Though I would've loved a touch of the Death Star motif from ANH and maybe a few other cues from the other films, not everything can be crammed in. It was a great effort from JW and in my opinion a job well done.

The score (the music as it exists in the film) has some great highs and some lows. I personally loved the drum beats and the opening music, what I didn't like was how the music was muted in favour of the Jedi fighter engines. The score has a great little moment early on including hearing the rebel fanfare as Artoo zaps a buzzdroid. It would have been great to catch it again during the opening sequence, but it was not to be. Instead, the starship sequence represents one of the more disappointing uses of music in the film. We get silence after Obi-wan and Anakin land on Grievous's ship until Grievous himself is introduced via his stirring theme, which comes up for only a few seconds until the music is halted again. I can't say I liked this decision. With such a great theme, and so many other great Star Wars adventure themes, why not keep the music going throughout this sequence? It doesn't give the images on screen any respect, as R2's antics and Obi-wan/Anakin's banter could have been greatly enhanced by some great background music cues.

Finally, the music comes back after way too long of an unnecessary break. I like how the Dooku duel was left to sound effects until Obi-wan is hurled, It added tension. When the music did kick it, I felt the weight of the situation transmitted through Williams, which is what he does best. A great musical moment comes after Anakin kills Dooku...an eery violin that symbolizes things to come. It kind of reminded me of Horner's ALIENS score, very 80s, and it was magic.

Sadly, the greatness doesn't last long as we get our first piece of tracked music from a previous episode. Up first is the Queen's Escape from Naboo from Episode 1 (which was also used later in that film during the end of the podrace), and I just don't see why the mixers and sounds editors continue to think this is a good idea. There's a ton of unused music from the Episode III session itself that could have fit here: It's on your soundtrack. Instead, we're treated to something hollow, music that does nothing but make me think "Why?" But wait! Like the rest of the music in this opening act, it's suddenly cut off and we get another few minutes of awkwardness without a musical presence. However, when it does come back (out of nowhere I should add), it's at least Episode III music, which is pretty damn good. The music gets back on track for about 30 seconds until it's suddenly muted once again. It's cued back by the ship's separation with....another track from Episode I, this time 'Anakin Exiting the Federation Battleship'. I should say I think this fits well, if only it was rescored for this film in some form and not poorly tacked on (and rewound when it needs to catch up with the action on screen).

The end of the sequence signals the score getting back on track. From the return to Coruscant to the end of the Opera sequence we are treated to some great cues, and music with terrific presence. Grievous' arrival on Utapau is just rousing adventure music, which blends perfectly into Across the Stars for the following scene. I love JW's use of the love theme in this movie much more than in AOTC, and the early Anakin/Padme scenes are given much more weight because of it. Another favourite of mine is when Anakin becomes angry at the Jedi council and the Imperial March hums slowly in the background. This part of the movie, while slow to some people, really intrigues me and the urgency of the score here is really what sells it to me. After the terrifically haunting Opera music however, we get back to what brings the score down: tracked music, here from Episode II's Arena sequence.

It lasts just a few seconds, but then fades into more old music for the duration of the council discussion. The Federation march jumps into action to signal the Battle of Kashyyyk, and though I think it fits well, there was an opportunity here for something new. Perhaps the march mixed with a Wookie-esque theme...I'm sure JW could have cooked up something good. It doesn't last long though and we return to normalcy for a long while. Hearing the power of re-scored old themes and new themes alike. When Obi-wan drops his lightsaber on Utapau there's an awkward transition out of Episode III music into the same re-used music that was tracked for the hologram council meeting not long before. When that ends, it's back to Episode III after a good pause in the music as Anakin meets with Palpatine to deliver news of Obi-wan's engagement. The deep rumble of the Emperor's theme is great here as is the transition into the Utapau chase. The music here is solid and exciting. What follows after Grievous' death is perfectly tracked from the scoring sessions, but in some cases is mixed poorly (specifically when Mace is killed) as the music is once again subdued while dialogue and sound take over.

The last blemish on the score is when Anakin and the troops storm the temple to the tracked Arena music. I mean, again we have a moment that screams new music. An alternate Imperial March, a grisly Force Theme, not an inappropriate track from an Episode II animal fight. This was a head scratcher for me. It fades into the Utapau sequence, which finally cuts it off with Anakin's Betrayal (Albeit an awkward transition from a piece of music that didn't fit). From this point on, the music is perfect. The tracking matches the action on screen very well and there's some truly magical moments: Yoda's theme as he boards his escape pod. The tragic background music of Anakin wishing Padme goodbye before he leaves for Mustafar, the Mustafar theme, Anakin's entrance signaled by the march, the Emperor's theme opening Palpatine's senate announcement, the powerful choral work during Anakin's slaughter and so on.

Battle of the Heroes and Duel of the Fates side by side worked beautifully. After the action, the final push of the score was vintage Williams. Magical stuff. The tragedy theme tied with the imperial march during the star destroyer scene is one of the best musical moments in the entire saga. Leia, Luke and the Force's theme to end the film is nothing short of perfection.

It may seem like I came down hard at some points, but some of these flaws are not excuseable. They are likely the result of Lucas's constant editing changes, which in turn affects the pacing of the music, however the mixers and music editors have done a poor job with these spots. Where the movie was obviously locked down, we are rewarded with some of the saga's greatest musical moments. It's disappointing knowning the score could have been masterful, though it probably is to most people, but there are the audiophiles that know better and can't help but want it fixed for a future release.

[Emperor's Prize]

CoGro, I found myself nodding in agreement as a read this. I especially agree with your conclusion that the likely cause for the tracking of old music, as well as any difficult transitions, is the result of Lucas' constant editing. After the scoring debacle that was AOTC, I was very curious to see if there would be a repeat of the same problems for ROTS. Sure enough, there were. Though, it's clear to me that the score for ROTS worked much better than AOTC. It seems that Williams had more to work with this time around, in terms of footage that was locked in, than last time. You're right, the music after the tracked "Arena March" was flawless. In fact, the music from there on out (especially the hauntingly beautiful music for Order 66 and the music behind Obi-Wan's "I'm so sorry") perfectly underscores the tragedy of the film.

[MannyOrtez]

It may seem like I came down hard at some points, but some of these flaws are not excuseable. They are likely the result of Lucas's constant editing changes, which in turn affects the pacing of the music, however the mixers and music editors have done a poor job with these spots. Where the movie was obviously locked down, we are rewarded with some of the saga's greatest musical moments. It's disappointing knowning the score could have been masterful, though it probably is to most people, but there are the audiophiles that know better and can't help but want it fixed for a future release.

All great points. I agreed with everything you said. Especially the Temple raid sequence...as I've said before, that one just kills me. What were they thinking? And yes, why oh why does Queen's escape from Naboo pop up everywhere? At least in that instant, it sort of fits...but the battle arena music *shudders.

The music editing is the lone place where I feel ROTS really could see some improvement. In AOTC and TPM, it really hindered the films, especially AOTC. The arena battle could've been epic and exciting, instead it has moments of goofy thanks to the music. What are the chances of a better edited soundtrack on the DVD? (EDIT: I was praying for that for the arena battle on AOTC and was disappointed, so maybe I shouldn't get my hopes up.)

[Toggle]

Don't have a ton to contribute. . . you pretty much covered my thoughts on it. . . I feel the music stands on its own very well too. . . ive been listening to it a lot lately, especially while playing online games. . .

[Zéyann]

The last blemish on the score is when Anakin and the troops storm the temple to the tracked Arena music. I mean, again we have a moment that screams new music. An alternate Imperial March, a grisly Force Theme, not an inappropriate track from an Episode II animal fight. This was a head scratcher for me.

agreed, while I'm not really fond of reused music, this part really bugged me. Where was Williams during all this? I'm pretty sure this had to be Lucas intervention, Williams would never consciously do this.

My other gripe is the shortened end credits. I'm not talking about the omitting of the throne room theme (which was really unnessicary for this film) but the shortened end credits fanfare. I believe it was done just to make the classic fanfare at the end (after BotH) fit, but if it could be done in it's pure form in the OT, I have no idea why it was shortened here.

[gekdis]

I’m sure it had to be Lucas behind the re-use of music. Does anyone remember the soundtrack set from 93? The fourth disc had the original Williams track for “Return of Jedi” from the Sarlacc pit scene, which is a pretty good bit o’ music, but Lucas had him re-do it favoring themes from earlier parts of the saga. I mean, it’s not as bad as just tacking on bits and pieces like in ROTS, but for some reason, Lucas seems to think he knows better than Williams… I have a feeling JW had a better idea of the march on the temple, and GL just already had this Arena theme stuck in his head for whatever odd reason…

[Tarwars]

I’m sure it had to be Lucas behind the re-use of music. Does anyone remember the soundtrack set from 93? The fourth disc had the original Williams track for “Return of Jedi” from the Sarlacc pit scene, which is a pretty good bit o’ music, but Lucas had him re-do it favoring themes from earlier parts of the saga. I mean, it’s not as bad as just tacking on bits and pieces like in ROTS, but for some reason, Lucas seems to think he knows better than Williams… I have a feeling JW had a better idea of the march on the temple, and GL just already had this Arena theme stuck in his head for whatever odd reason…

hmmm... where can i find this original Sarlacc pit track that you speak of?

But anyways, i think the problem with the whole prequel trilogy's score is that the way movies are made has evolved a lot since the original trilogy. We can virtually do anything with editing and we can do it rather quickly, so when the scores for the PT were originally recoarded, GL still had a lot of time to make any more changes that he would want to, where as back in the OT days, the score would be placed into the movie when it was virtually finished.

[Wrath Mania]

While I agree in many respects, CoGro, I will say that the re-used music for ROTS was inserted much better than the horrible job in II. "The Tide Turns" was a great choice for when Anain crashlands The Invisible Hand. And considering how "The Arena Battle" got the axe in Episode II, I didn't mind it's reinsertion into this movie, and actually thought it worked well with Anakin's march to the temple.

With Episode II, not only was the re-used music far more common, the editing of the track was just awful. Jarring changes, constant useage of the "I will not condorse an action that will lead us to war" cue from TPM, and the fact that the original music for II wasn't great anyways (other than Across the Stars, most of it felt like filler music).

[SeekUp52577]

I’m sure it had to be Lucas behind the re-use of music. Does anyone remember the soundtrack set from 93? The fourth disc had the original Williams track for “Return of Jedi” from the Sarlacc pit scene, which is a pretty good bit o’ music, but Lucas had him re-do it favoring themes from earlier parts of the saga. I mean, it’s not as bad as just tacking on bits and pieces like in ROTS, but for some reason, Lucas seems to think he knows better than Williams… I have a feeling JW had a better idea of the march on the temple, and GL just already had this Arena theme stuck in his head for whatever odd reason…

hmmm... where can i find this original Sarlacc pit track that you speak of?

http://s51.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1IB9 ... HAATNVPK8T

I think that is it.

[CoGro]

While I agree in many respects, CoGro, I will say that the re-used music for ROTS was inserted much better than the horrible job in II. "The Tide Turns" was a great choice for when Anain crashlands The Invisible Hand. And considering how "The Arena Battle" got the axe in Episode II, I didn't mind it's reinsertion into this movie, and actually thought it worked well with Anakin's march to the temple.

With Episode II, not only was the re-used music far more common, the editing of the track was just awful. Jarring changes, constant useage of the "I will not condorse an action that will lead us to war" cue from TPM, and the fact that the original music for II wasn't great anyways (other than Across the Stars, most of it felt like filler music).

Yes, the music in II is horrible, but why compare III to the absolute worst? Should that be the standard? "well, at least it's better than II" isn't good enough for me, and it shouldn't be for anyone. The OT scores had the perfect polish that these PT need. They should be fixed. There should be no re-used music. Where in the OT do you have pieces of a previous score tacked on?

Like I said, the re-used stuff IS better integrated, but it shouldn't be there in the first place. And I have to say I disagree that the Arena battle was a good choice for Anakin's temple march. It's a cue that has nothing to do with Anakin, the troops, the temple or even the Clone War. It's flat out stupid.

[Wrath Mania]

I don't now, it's been associated with the Clone Wars, partially from Episode II, but also earlier on in the movie. I didn't mind it appearing on Utapau or Kashyyyk, and as a build up from Anakin's march to the next scene, it wasn't terrible.

Should it have been new music though? Absolutely.

The thing is many of the themes made for the prequels (Duel of the Fates, Battle of the Heroes) are more epic than anything we got in the OT. As established, with ROTS and to a lesser extent TPM, it was the scoring that hindered the final product.

But to me the ROTS score works fairly well, as does TPM's (though the music created isn't as good as ROTS). AOTC got by far the worse butchering.

And while we're on the subject, I absolutely agree Lucas should have put the Death Star motif SOMEWHERE in the prequels, as well as the "Stormtrooper theme" (plays when Vader confronts Leia aboard the Tantive). Both themes really could have been used in Episode II for the Clonetroopers. Remember the RIDICULOUS use of the Trade Federation theme on Kamino? It could have gone there instead, as well as the final battle.

Unless Lucas plans on adding the Imperial March to ANH, which seems unlikely and probably wouldn't work out well unless Williams rescored the movie, which is also unlikely, it's going to be odd that this new Imperial theme shows up for one movie, then vanishes.

[thecolorsblend]

And while we're on the subject, I absolutely agree Lucas should have put the Death Star motif SOMEWHERE in the prequels, as well as the "Stormtrooper theme" (plays when Vader confronts Leia aboard the Tantive). Both themes really could have been used in Episode II for the Clonetroopers. Remember the RIDICULOUS use of the Trade Federation theme on Kamino? It could have gone there instead, as well as the final battle.

I actually rather liked the reuse of that theme there.

[Wrath Mania]

It was completely irrelevant to the Clones. It's an army for the REPUBLIC, and we're using the theme for the guys they'll be fighting at the end of the movie?!

I guess the rationale was for it to be a red herring... but listening to the soundtrack CD, it was clear it was meant to play when Obi-Wan landed on Geonosis and saw the Federation ships.

[CoGro]

I think re-scoring parts of the PT that don't work would be money well spent and would GREATLY enhance the final product.

The only thing I would change in the OT is add a quiet Imperial March cue as Vader appears for the first time in ANH.

[Wrath Mania]

I think re-scoring parts of the PT that don't work would be money well spent and would GREATLY enhance the final product.

The only thing I would change in the OT is add a quiet Imperial March cue as Vader appears for the first time in ANH.

Yeah, I could dig both.

Entirely redoing the music in AOTC from Dooku interrogating Obi-Wan to Dooku returning to Sidious on Coruscant would be a great thing.

[Zéyann]

I don't think Williams would go back to do that. He's probably already pissed how they butchered his score as it is. But if George knows the music's gonne be fucked up, why didn't he let williams score the movie AFTER he completed it?

Star Wars II and III have so far been the only movies I've seen in my life that made use of music of other soundtracks in the series. Especially with a genious as Williams, this is a complete shame.

[CoGro]

Spider-man 2 did the same thing, but there it's laughworthy.

George tinkers usually until the month of release whereas Williams starts writing in the previous fall and scores in the February. It would be impossible for him to see the final film before he started writing. I'm suggesting that now that it's all done (presumeably), he can go back and touch them up with no pressure of a deadline.

[ETandElliott]

Yeah, I could dig both.

Entirely redoing the music in AOTC from Dooku interrogating Obi-Wan to Dooku returning to Sidious on Coruscant would be a great thing.

Everything after the Geonosis/end battle scenes from the return of Dooku on shows you how great the score for the whole thing could have been. Just those 10 plus minutes or so of the end montage with the council/clones and marriage to credits is some of the best shit I've ever heard in SW.

[MannyOrtez]

It's odd that people bitch about the prequels a lot (normally their points are very stupid and retarded) yet somehow these nitpickers rarely ever talk about the music, and how badly its been fucking butchered. For some reason the people who actually enjoyed the movies are the ones who notice that the music was so haphazardly edited.

I agree with you CoGro, reediting the music would greatly enhance the experience. Really for Attack of the Clones, it truly could make it a better movie, its quite simple. I don't know why Lucas has to be so fucking lazy about it. TPM and ROTS could see some improvements, but much moreso AOTC. I just want to know who was responsible for that disgraceful cutting.

[CoGro]

I know, I remember him saying that he's excited to go back and touch up parts of the OT...

then again, I've always thought the 2004 DVDs were never going to be the final versions. It was a half-assed effort to throw the movies on the format just so fans would stop bitching. Nobody really had the time to sit and give those DVDs 100 % since George was working on a deadline and in the midst of Episode III.

I anticipate 2006-7, which is when I feel we'll have the versions that are stamped *final*.

[The3lanK]

In the past JW's music has always been good at flowing you from one
scene to the next, connecting everything, but I must agree, editing in III
messed this up in several spots.

The two scenes that actually bothered me music wise....

The scene right before the Mace Palps confrontation.
We are setup two scenes before with this creepy errie
music, a wonderful scene that perfectly sets the mood.
However, for me, the music in the scene were Anikan
jumps in his pod to race off to the chancelers office just
seems out of place and jaring.

The other scene that totaly bugs me is the jedi control
room scene where obi wan makes his discovery of the
truth. Just for fun, I let the track that was playing in the
scene before continue on into the jedi control room scene
and I must say, the emotional impact of obiwans discovery
skyrocketed. The scene has to go there due to the timeline
of events, and I love the reprise of the song a scene later,
but for some reason, the emotional impact of the obiwan
discovery was lost due to the music just not flowing IMO.

[Otherguy64]

I really liked the score to episode 3 my only question about it is why didn't John Williams use the emporers choral theme heard in episode 1, 2 and 6? I really love that theme and was dissapointed it never appeared in 3.

[CoGro]

Well, I'd say you need a hearing aid because the Emperor's theme shows up in 3 about 5 different times.

[Wrath Mania]

Yeah, and chorally it shows up at least twice (When Sidious puts the hood on and when they land at the med station).

[pika122689]

Interesting thread. I agree with Anakin's march to the temple. That was a awkward choice of music. I was truly expecting it to transition and burst into a full Imperial March (please do that, there is still time), but they kept that. To my horror when I came home, I realized it was pulled from the AOTC arena track, truly disappointing.

But with Yoda and his Wookiee escape pod, that was done perfectly. With the misture of lighting, area, and music, I felt at home as if it was Dagobah. Great scene. I wish they add Imperial March to that Anakin marching scene, that would have been perfect.

[gekdis]

It’s funny, I remember from way back the music was a big part of the Star Wars experience, and from the very beginning GL always said he wanted a big, sweeping score, and sought out Williams at Steven Spielberg’s advice. Why after all these years, and a long working relationship with John Williams, does he just rape the music away like this? I wonder if we’ll ever get to hear what Williams really intended to accompany Darth Vader’s march on the Jedi Temple? I’m sure there’s gotta be lots of unreleased music from Sith out there…

[Ascovel]

It’s funny, I remember from way back the music was a big part of the Star Wars experience, and from the very beginning GL always said he wanted a big, sweeping score, and sought out Williams at Steven Spielberg’s advice. Why after all these years, and a long working relationship with John Williams, does he just rape the music away like this?

OMG LUCAS RAPED THE MUSICAL PART OF OUR CHILDHOOD

What do you think, should we burn him for that? He finished the Saga already anyway.

[Zéyann]

It’s funny, I remember from way back the music was a big part of the Star Wars experience, and from the very beginning GL always said he wanted a big, sweeping score, and sought out Williams at Steven Spielberg’s advice. Why after all these years, and a long working relationship with John Williams, does he just rape the music away like this? I wonder if we’ll ever get to hear what Williams really intended to accompany Darth Vader’s march on the Jedi Temple? I’m sure there’s gotta be lots of unreleased music from Sith out there…

was it even scored to begin with? Did lucas really throw away so much unused music?

[Kyeju]

I get the feeling that the CG in the post production process really interferes with the scoring on these types of films. It seems the more CG you get in the film the less time the composer has to score the film. To me Phantom Menace really has the best score of all three, because it was all original. Phantom Menace also has the least CG of the three prequels. It's the same thing with the lotr trilogy. Fellowship had the best score then when it got to Return of the King the score really wasn't even close to as good.

[The Dark Shape]

Y'know, I think the music was handled pretty well in the film. Quite a bit was temp-tracked, but the cues felt much more natural than what was shoe-horned into Attack of the Clones. It was during the wideshot of the Invisible Hand crashing through Coruscant's clouds, as the Episode I rendition of the Force Theme comes up, that I really felt that I was seeing a brand new Star Wars movie and settled down in my seat. I still get a bit giddy, as I think that bit works very well.

Yes, geek. Feel free to steal my lunch money.

[jojoba]

You present many valid points, CoGro. The muting of the music in this film (as well as the ANH DVD) kinda pisses me off too. But I don't understand a few of your other issues. You say that you love the music that was composed for "THIS film", but that's not necessarily the case. I just thought you should know that Battle of Heroes was actually composed for The Phantom Menace. But Lucas loved it so much that he asked Williams to save it for later. They both found it more appropriate for Anakin & Obi-Wan's duel in ROTS. Duel of the Fates was therefore composed and substituted in it's place. So, Battle of Heroes has actually been lying dormant for six years.

As for the "Arena" music from AOTC... it's a similar situation. You clarified the difference between the "music" and the "score", but you didn't notice that this particular bit of music can never actually be heard in AOTC (the film). It's on the CD only. During the arena sequence (in the film), there is no music until Anakin jumps on the Reek's back. Lucas removed about two minutes of that track and saved it for the Temple raid in ROTS. So... if you never listened to the AOTC soundtrack CD, you wouldn't have gotten so upset. The music sounds more appropriate for troops marching than it does for vicious beasts anyway (at least IMHO). And just like the Imperial March, this music is derivative of Mars' theme from Gustav Holst's The Planets (the music Lucas originally used as a temp track for ANH). So in a way, it is sort of an alternate version of the Imerial March.

It would certainly be nice if Williams could sit down with all six completed films, and touch up all the spots that were edited after his music was completed. He could lengthen and shorten tracks as needed, and just make it all flow smoother. And hopefully he could add the Imperial March in two or three spots in ANH. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[CoGro]

You say that you love the music that was composed for "THIS film", but that's not necessarily the case. I just thought you should know that Battle of Heroes was actually composed for The Phantom Menace. But Lucas loved it so much that he asked Williams to save it for later. They both found it more appropriate for Anakin & Obi-Wan's duel in ROTS. Duel of the Fates was therefore composed and substituted in it's place. So, Battle of Heroes has actually been lying dormant for six years.

Thanks, but that fact has nothing to do with my point.

As for the "Arena" music from AOTC... it's a similar situation. You clarified the difference between the "music" and the "score", but you didn't notice that this particular bit of music can never actually be heard in AOTC (the film). It's on the CD only. During the arena sequence (in the film), there is no music until Anakin jumps on the Reek's back. Lucas removed about two minutes of that track and saved it for the Temple raid in ROTS. So... if you never listened to the AOTC soundtrack CD, you wouldn't have gotten so upset. The music sounds more appropriate for troops marching than it does for vicious beasts anyway (at least IMHO). And just like the Imperial March, this music is derivative of Mars' theme from Gustav Holst's The Planets (the music Lucas originally used as a temp track for ANH). So in a way, it is sort of an alternate version of the Imerial March.

No. You can hear the arena theme pretty loud and clear in AOTC the FILM. Yes, it's not the full 8 minute track or whatever it was, but it's there. Regardless, it's music written for AOTC, therefore, what we hear in ROTS is re-tracked music from a previous soundtrack.

It would certainly be nice if Williams could sit down with all six completed films, and touch up all the spots that were edited after his music was completed. He could lengthen and shorten tracks as needed, and just make it all flow smoother. And hopefully he could add the Imperial March in two or three spots in ANH. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Yes, I agree.

[Wrath Mania]

You present many valid points, CoGro. The muting of the music in this film (as well as the ANH DVD) kinda pisses me off too. But I don't understand a few of your other issues. You say that you love the music that was composed for "THIS film", but that's not necessarily the case. I just thought you should know that Battle of Heroes was actually composed for The Phantom Menace. But Lucas loved it so much that he asked Williams to save it for later. They both found it more appropriate for Anakin & Obi-Wan's duel in ROTS. Duel of the Fates was therefore composed and substituted in it's place. So, Battle of Heroes has actually been lying dormant for six years.

Not to get off topic, but where did you hear that from?

[jojoba]

Am I confused? I know I saw it somewhere, maybe the Web Documentary or maybe the DVD. But I was always under the impression that he composed those "last 10 minutes of the third movie" before the conception of Duel of the Fates. I've actually been looking forward to this music for six years thinking to myself, how can he top DotF? Perhaps I took this too literally and misinterpreted. If I'm mistaken... my bad.

CoGro, yes some of the AOTC arena theme does appear in ROTS, but my point was mainly in regards to Anakin & the troops storming into the Jedi Temple. That particular bit cannot be heard in AOTC, but if it still bugs you, that's cool. I don't really have a problem with unused music finding it's way into later films. I was kinda hoping Williams might squeeze in the alternate version of "Binary Sunset" from A New Hope into one of the prequels. It was too dark for Luke, but it could have worked well for any of Anakin's "evil" moments on Tatooine.

[jojoba]

Next thing you're gonna tell me is that there won't really be any episodes VII, VIII, & IX.

[CoGro]

You're right. There won't

[Zéyann]

Next thing your gonna tell me is that there won't really be any episodes VII, VIII, & IX.

[MTH]

I'm pretty pissed that they didn't include more of the music that actually played during the film in the soundtrack.

[pika122689]

Question. What track is the march to the jedi temple? I can't seem to find that on any of the songs.

It is "12 - Love Pledge and the Arena" on the AOTC soundtrack. It is like 3:21 minutes in.

[Devil Dodo]

Wow, I can't believe I completely missed this thread. I agree with pretty much everything in the first post CoGro...

Most of the tracked music throughout the film really annoys me (though, as pointed out, is much better this time around). I just don't understand how they think it's a good idea. It's mind boggling really. How many times is it that we hear the Queen's escape from Naboo music throughout the PT now? And it seems they sometimes choose the most inappropriate music... (The Temple March).

Another piece of tracked music that annoys me is the Battle Droid music over the Kashyyyk Battle. It annoys me almost as much as it did over the wideshot of the Clontroopers on Kamino in Episode II.

I was very pleasantly surprised with the way Deul of the Fates was used. When I first heard it was in the film, I didn't like the idea, but indeed it does fit very well alongside Battle of the Heroes, and with the Yoda duel.

I also very much liked the use of the Funeral music from Episode I over Darth Vader rising. It brings much sadness to the scene. It worked well, I thought. It also links the 'death' of Anakin and, later, the death of Padme.

What annoys me most about the Arena music in Episode III is that it's not used only once, but twice! And both times it's tracked, not even altered... The use of it over the Kashyyyk flyover was passable, but to use it on Anakin's March to the Temple... huh?!? Where is the logic in that? I understand that they needed a semi-'jumpy' piece to lead straight into the next scene, nut surely there was something better to use.

I tried to prove myself right about the Temple March and made this clip I with the Imperial March instead of the horrible Arena music: Temple March
Several people I've shown it to have liked it, though I'm not sure I do. I tried to get the sound of the marching in there but I'm not that talented unfortunately. Like CoGro said, an alternate version would have been much better. It gives a very different feel to the scene. I do think, though, that it actually does flow alright into the next scene... well, it worked better than I thought.

It all really comes down to George's documentary style of filmmaking... that is, that he doesn't really have anything firnly in place and therefore is still editing a lot after the music recording is done.

[CoGro]

I would have have had John score a grim force theme blended with an Imperial March motif (if you can imagine that in your head).

Slow and dark force theme starts when we cut to the long shot of the temple, continues into the shots of the clones marching and the overhead shot and climaxes with an Imperial March cue when we get a medium shot of Anakin. From that, we can cue thematic clone war music to Utapau (newly scored, not retracked) which then naturally blends into Anakin's Betrayal.

In a perfect world anyway...

If the miscues in the score were redone, ROTS would go up a full point to me. Same with AOTC...those bumps in the score really pull you out of the movie if you're big fan of the series....and it drives audiophiles insane.

[Ascovel]

I hope by 'audiophiles' you don't mean those jwfan.net people, they're insane.

[CoGro]

Most of those guys don't even know what they're talking about.

Anyone with a good ear for music and audio can pick up the problems with the score. Especially if you've seen TPM and AOTC or listened to their soundtracks more than a few times.


I should also add that there was a rediculous use of R2-D2 sounds in the opening sequence. Artoo screams like 5 times, says 'uh oh' like 3 times. Just poor sound selection. Matt Wood is a terrible sound editor.

[DoubleSith]

He's a pretty bad voice actor, as well.

[cardboard monster]

My main qualm is the bizarre decision to incorporate existing PT music elements over those from the OT score. Surely if you HAVE to reuse existing music it would make more sense to try and gel the two disparate trilogies together, rather than further isolating them with unique, signature themes.

[MannyOrtez]

If the miscues in the score were redone, ROTS would go up a full point to me. Same with AOTC...those bumps in the score really pull you out of the movie if you're big fan of the series....and it drives audiophiles insane.

ROTS is not nearly as bad as AOTC, IMO. For me, the miscues in ROTS don't detract enough to really affect me. But everytime I watch AOTC I want to shoot somebody. Don't get me wrong, I still love the flick, but I'm such a huge JW fan, it really pisses me off. It's so lazy and half-assed. Lucas himself knows how fucking important the music is, why would they mail it in on that? It turned the arena/Clone Wars scene from kickass and epic to a somewhat above average action scene. I really don't understand why the laziness.

The most powerful theme in AOTC is obviously Across the Stars, how was that not even worked into any of the action scenes....grrrr...the Across the Stars music video has a more epic feel to it. Thinkabout it, AOTC is the only of the 3 prequels not to have a dramatic action oriented piece of music. DOTF, BOTH, obviously Across the Stars needs to be used in those end battles for some emotionally effect, instead, we get the goofy Trade Federation music which I associate with the Gungan battle. It's ridicolous.

[JonLees]

AOTC is the worst of all of them. It's all over the place, especially at the end. Williams did not even score most of the last half of the movie. Bad call George. It does not flow well at all.

ROTS was better but was still lacking. I wish they would have let Williams score the entire movie, after it was done like he did with the OT. Battle of the Heroes was good and I wish Williams used it more during ROTS. The music playing when Anakin is heading to the temple is recycled and a HORRIBLE call. It should have been the Imperial March theme, played at a slow pace. I can only guess what Williams would have wrote!

TPM has the best score of the PT by far. Williams did an awesome job with various themes and it flows very well. For anyone who does not have the UE TPM soundtrack you need to get it. I love how he uses the Duel of the Fates them during the last 30 minutes or so. Amazing work. Anakin's theme on Tatooine is alse very nice. The music during the battle between Maul and Qui-Gon on Tatooine is great (notice it's a faster version of the same earlier theme played).

[tlbauerle]

TPM flows well...on the UE???

TPM was cut and chopped up just as much as the other films.

[VRWConspirator]

Interesting points, but there was one other cue that I did not like that I haven't seen mentioned:

I think it is after the final duels (or perhaps just after Order 66), when Obi-Wan is boarding the Tantive IV, they use the same cue from TPM when the Queen's starship lands on Tattooine. It's like this big fanfare cue that did not seem to belong at all, given the mood of the story at that time.

[Wrath Mania]

Williams actually rescored that cue for Episode III, it's not just recycled from Episode I. It's on the Soundtrack as well.

It really depends on the scene. I had no problem with the "The Tide Turns" being used in the crash sequence, or the Federation theme in the battle of Kashyyyk. And what at least SEEMS to be completely tracked music to me, and no one complains about it all because it works so well, is the "Duel of the Fates" segment in Yoda VS Sidious.

Using the Arena Battle theme in Anakin's march, though, is a valid complaint.