Terminator IV • Salvation • Reviews

[CoGro]

[Obi-Wan Starkiller]

I'm really surprised. I thought before the summer movie season that this was the most surefire hit. Now I'm wondering if it could be possibly worse than Wolverine. Gasp!

[ETandElliott]

To me, Terminator is Arnold fucking up all those dudes in the biker bar while bare-assed, John Connor in Public Enemy shirt riding around the city on a dirt bike listening to GNR, homeboy Miles Dyson's last breaths, "We got a warzone down here!" and "Call to John. I know this hurts." "Fuck you!" T3 was proof you can't come off a film as great as T2 with a sequel of any merit. This movie and the TV show are beating a dead endoskeleton at this point. This is all my opinion.

[Hokusai]

CoGro

are the spoilers close? without spoiling anymore...

[CoGro]

The ones hidden by B on this page? Yes.

Arnold's face is maybe seen in 3 or 4 shots very quickly. Connor needs a new heart because he's stabbed through the chest with a piece of metal by the T-800 (Arnold post skin melted off).

[Joe1138]

I caught the flick this evening and overall I agree with CoGro's review and think you pretty much nail it where other reviewers, like Knowles, missed the point completely. The future war scenes in the past films work best as a framing device, a nightmare of what could come to pass. But by the end of the second movie, we understand that the future in Cameron's universe is not knowable nor is it even relevant. Cameron's "Terminator" was never about the future but about the present.

"Terminator Salvation" is not a bad film by any means, in fact I'd go so far as to say that the filmmaking is solid with McG acquitting himself quite nicely in the film's action scenes and overall tone. I think the much hyped "single take" helicopter scene early on lacks the impact that the crew were hoping for, even on a large cinema screen, because we know and recognize that no camera rig can perform the moves we see in that scene without some sort of CG assistance and by the film's third act the action has become so tiring that you're basically ready for the film to get on with the story. But this is by no means the failure others have painted it as being and is a fairly engaging if generic action flick.

I think the real culprit here is the screenplay. I'll go out on a limb and say the past "Terminator" flicks, the first and second in particular, are basically the same movie. "T2" is the better film, not merely because of its increased budget and production value but because it expanded upon the ideas in the first. It's the ideas that are always central to a great sci-fi or speculative fiction story and that is where "Salvation" falls flat. I know the early story ending that had Connor's body being swapped with that of the cyborg Marcus was upsetting to a lot of people but at least that would have been something. It could have taken this film and its sequels (and we know they're coming) in a far more interesting direction than what we're left with at the end of the final product. Here the ideas are dull and redundant. Even when taken as a piece of what will become a larger puzzle, it feels more like prologue than an opening salvo. Much of the film is devoted to Connor's discovery of a signal that Skynet uses to transmit orders to its machine warriors but so little is done with this bit of information that it just as well could have been saved for a later film.

As far as the cast goes, I'll just mention a few things that stuck with me. It seems as though Bale has really taken to Linda Hamilton's performance in "T2" with his portrayal of John Connor. It's fairly one note but given the dialogue he's saddled with I can't imagine him turning in a more subtle or nuanced performance. Anton Yelchin was the real highlight and surprise for me. He isn't so much aping Michael Biehn in the first film as he is really imbuing the Kyle Reese character as written in "Salvation" with a real humanity and spark. Coupled with "Star Trek" it's clear he's going to be one to watch after this year is said and done with.

I think a lot of the nerd rage over this flick is unwarranted. The idea of actually seeing the future war in the "Terminator" universe play itself out is superfluous to begin with and was probably most anticipated by the kind of people that get off on all that post-apocalyptia jazz in the first place.

[darthpsychotic]

To me, Terminator is Arnold fucking up all those dudes in the biker bar while bare-assed

For me, Sarah Connor (with mid-1980s hair) mounting Kyle Reese and Schwarzenegger's iconic "I'll be back".


Across the internet, it's way to common to see post after post about McG and for some reason AICN. Yes we know that McG shot music videos featuring crummy late 90s music and that he is responsible for Charlies Angels and one or more of the Mission Impossible movies (yeah I don't keep track of them). While AICN is bought and paid for by studios (lol godzilla review lol) and the owner may have a weight problem (due to a accident). Raging against either got old literally ten years ago. Which is not to say the criticisms against both aren't valid, which they are, but saying it once or thrice is enough. That goes for the Bale rant also.

That's why this thread is awesome.

Looking past McG and the Bale involvment in the film, a fourth installment of any film is going to be difficult to execute. Another issue the titular character, Schwarzenegger's Terminator is not even the main attraction. Bale's Connor is and should have been marketed as such. When I was in Walmart today, there was quite a display near the toy aisle for Salvation, all featuring the Terminator. No sign of Bale's Connor, which is interesting given the success of re-imagined Batman and how much they paid the actor. Instead there is the Terminator droid - giving kids a chance to dress up as them and then go out and terminate.

By the way, my favorite Terminator movie is actually the Guns N Roses video "You Could Be Mine".

[Hade]

For me, Sarah Connor (with mid-1980s hair) mounting Kyle Reese and Schwarzenegger's iconic "I'll be back".

Yes. The woman had fabulous breasts.

Personally, I always wished Cameron would’ve pressed on with the future war. I know he said that it ends with T2 because they stop Skynet from ever coming to be. But I’ve always looked at it in the sense that the nuclear holocaust did happen and that we won because Skynet made the time displacement equipment which gave Reese the chance to go back and give mankind a second chance.

I saw it as man over machine, this sentient mechanism that was ultimately revealed to possess such human flaws as arrogance and pride. Artificial intelligence done in by itself.

When I saw that actor at the beginning of T2, battle-scarred and badass, I often dreamed of what could be. Instead, we get this.

[Obi-Wan Starkiller]

To me, Terminator is Arnold fucking up all those dudes in the biker bar while bare-assed

By the way, my favorite Terminator movie is actually the Guns N Roses video "You Could Be Mine".

I think the main problem with this (and I don't see it for another 8 hours) is that John Conner or Kyle Reese isn't the main character. Marcus seems to be the focus of this film and to me at least it seems off. We spend the first 3 movies revolving around the Conner family and all of this buildup for John Conner leading the Resistance and then in this movie we spend half the time following this other character we've never heard of. It sounds like a novel someone wrote instead of the continuation of this movie franchise. The franchise to this point has been T-800, Sarah Conner, Kyle Reese, John Conner. Marcus who? lame.

[ETandElliott]

Is this supposed to have anything to do with the TV show? Apparently, last season ended with younger John Connor going to the future war era and nobody knowing who he is. If it's all part of the same continuity maybe this is all about "Marcus" because the TV show will focus on John.

[Benovite]

I would pay good money to see a prequel that explored the dating life of Sarah Connor's roommate Ginger.

[Obi-Wan Starkiller]

Eh, just saw it. The worst I can say about it is it's forgettable. Nothing really to write home about. I cared nothing about any of the characters. Definitely Star Trek is still at the top of the summer list for me.

[bearvomit]

i just saw it. the story was what was stupid. There were some really stupid parts. Connor jumping right in the middle of the ocean with no mask at all, and the next scene he's onboard the submarine, kinda wet but still mad? come on. And the ending was retarded. He's the strongest mf'er on the planet apparently. He gets a metal bar slammed right through the middle of his chest, missing both his spine, lungs and heart apparently. He then limps out with Marcus, gets on a helicopter, (still conscious and gruff looking) flies back to base, gets set up in that tent where he talks to his friends and gives Kyle his honor badge and still hasn't at least bled to death or gone into cartiac arrest?

There were some good scenes, but there were FAR too many closeups, too many splosions for no reason, and just some stupid writing. The cg was great though. This movie gets a C and was probably the worst of the bunch. I'm sorry I wasted my time in this thread.


Some other thoughts since seeing it:


• How does Skynet know of Connor and Kyle's importance at this point in the timeline?
• Rescue mission to Skynet was met with no resistance at all, they just flew on in there and picked up the people and left like it was a guided tour.
• Giant "directed by MCG" credit at the beginning was the most pompous, pretentious bullshit I've seen in a long time - he hasn't earned his badge yet.
• Skynet actually FINDS and captures Kyle and knows who he is - instead of killing him they continue to just hold him for safe keeping?
• There's a full on drinking game with this movie, everytime Marcus' character pics up Sam's australian accent.
• Was there a purpose at all in making Kate pregnant and was it even acknowledged by Connor once?
• So that's what death tastes like huh?


Imagine if they got rid of the Marcus character altogether. They could have had Connor doing his broadcasts, raising up the resistance and taking over as leader. The oppressive T-600's could have been used in infiltration but getting caught because of the rubber skin. Kyle could have been captured but his importance would be unknown to Skynet and Connor would have to go on a rescue mission to save his own father. This could have played on the Father/son aspects brought up in T2. Ironically, a Terminator acted as a good father figure to Connor, thus teaching him how to save and help raise his own father! oh the possibilities!


It lost to Night at the Museum this weekend. It did worse than the rated R T3 did back in 2003. FUCK McG.

[darthpsychotic]

b this thread wasn't a waste given it's 12,000 page views!

After doing some thread maintenance in preparation for the eventual review thread split, seeing all of these leaked designs and concepts, in addition to the Bale factor, how hard was it to fuck this up? The major problem with this movie is a depressing, downbeat film for it's entire length. This movie opened with a fucking execution and ended with a heart transplant.

Here's how I would have done it:

T2: Terminator paired with young John Connor
T4: John Connor - A partial terminator paired with young Kyle Reese.

Yes thats right, incorporate aspects of Marcus into John Connor, then get rid of Marcus. Bale would then be paired with young Kyle Reese, who then would have someone else to talk to other than the walkie-talkie. (The walkie-talkie segments reminded me of the DJ in The Warriors.)

The only positives for me were: "I'll be back" and brief 90s music tracks.

The original goal was for us to see Trek today and then go see Salvation "while we were still in the building" but after watching the cam that hit last night it was more like "go straight home".

[Zaius]

chud.com /EXCLUSIVE-WHAT-WENT-WRONG-WITH-TERMINATOR-SALVATION/

[bearvomit]

that's a very good read. So Bale was initially going to be Marcus but didn't like the ending, brought in his budy Nolan to rewrite some parts and demand to be Connor. This in turn changes the whole movie pacing and plot & they have to abandon the original face-swap ending and decide to go Pg-13. Bale...fucking amateur.

[CoGro]

I think the point CHUD is missing is that both the original script and the new script fails because of one, if not two, major problems: First, nobody fucking cares about more Terminator stories, which is why every attempt at a follow up to T2 has failed. Terminator 3's opening weekend bombed if I remember correctly and the film didn't make up its budget domestically (always a sign that the public doesn't give a shit). Second, there's no Arnold. This fact can never be understated. You can't make a sequel to an epic franchise (if that's what the filmmaker's truly think this franchise is: epic) without it's superstar actor. Christian Bale is not a star. Moreover, he's clearly a douchebag. Nobody in T4 is a star. There's a good performance by Yelchin, but the story itself isn't interesting enough nor is the franchise popular enough (i.e. Star Wars) to justify and withstand a casting overall while remaining successful/popular. The characters were never bigger than the actors that portrayed them.

Nobody cares about John Connor because he's been played by a 12 year old kid (opposite a megastar who was the hero of T2) and by a mediocre nobody in a movie nobody liked (also opposite a megastar). The only 'idea' of the old script that works in a cool way is to make Connor a hero that nobody knows about - a legend bigger than a man. But I still contend that's making more of the original concept of John Connor (who's treated more like a future Eisenhower than some mythic Uncle Sam) than it need to be. It all comes down to this: T3 and T4 should have never been made. There's nowhere for the story to go, it's without a star, and nobody fucking cares about more Terminator. Maybe the failure of this flick will awaken Hollywood's eyes to this simple reality.

[ETandElliott]

I would rather watch Terminator 2: 3D Battle Across Time at Universal Studios.

[flash width=490 height=280]http://www.youtube.com/v/FT6vjT_P0gg[/flash]

[CoGro]

hollywoodinsider.ew.com the-terminator.html

"There was talk on the Internet about an alternate ending where Connor dies and they take Connor's likeness and put it on top of Marcus Wright's machine body. So that it's actually a machine that's leading the resistance! And the Internet caught wind of that and people went, 'That's bulls---! We don't want that!'"
McG grins. "Well, that's not really what the ending was."

Actually, the bloggers were on the right track. Except, McG adds, the original ending actually went even further.
"Connor dies, okay? He's dead," McG continues. "And Marcus offers his physical body, so Connor's exterior is put on top of his machine body. It looks like Connor, but it's really Marcus underneath. And all of the characters we care about (Kyle Reese, Connor's wife Kate, etc.) are brought into the room to see him and they think it's Connor. And Connor gets up and then there's a small flicker of red in his eyes and he shoots Kate, he shoots Kyle, he shoots everybody in the room. Fade to black. End of movie. Skynet wins. F--- you!"

F--- you, indeed.

We tell the director that this would be the darkest, bleakest summer blockbuster ending of all time. He agrees.
"It's the most nihilistic thing of all time. And Christian went f---ing crazy, of course. He was insistent that it be done that way! He wanted the bad guys to win! Can you imagine the oxygen going out of the theater?! What just happened! It would piss you off! But maybe two years from now, you'd think it was ballsy. But in the end, it just felt like too much of a bummer."

He pauses, thinking about the alternate ending that wasn't. "Maybe we blew it."

And this is why T3 and T4 should never have been made. There's no fucking story and you're just playing in the sandbox of a franchise.

Now yer done.

[bearvomit]

actually, they're not done. McG and Bale both have already signed contracts for 2 more movies. I guess they could be bought out of those if the studio won't go for it. But the rights to Terminator are now owned by two independent dudes, one only 26 years old! This was their first major movie after finding out the rights were up for grabs and quickly buying it up for about $25 million

[Benovite]

Anything after T2 should be direct to DVD releases.

[bearvomit]

friday it pulled $5.1 million, down 65% from opening week. might not be another one after all. James Cameron recently was asked about T3 and how he told Arnold to ask for more money than anyone ever has before because anyone that makes a Terminator movie without Arnold is fucking stupid!

[TroyObliX]

I caught the cheap early showing of this one today. And I liked it. Not a lot, but it was far better than the gigantic turd I was expecting it to be. Was I having a nerdgasm over how perfect it was? Fuck no. Did paying half price before six o'clock have anything to do with it? Quite possibly.

I dunno, maybe my ability to critically analyze movies has gone down the shitter. Because people keep trashing movies this season that I end up watching and enjoying. Except for Watchmen. That actually sucked fat cock. But this? Not as bad as I had been led to believe.

I see where a lot of the criticism on this one comes from. And yes there are some really dumb moments. But it had a good pace, it kept me interested, and as a sci-fi action movie it really didn't disapoint me at all. Was it illogical at times? It's a sci-fi action movie. Hell-Oooh. Am I supposed to actually care about the characters? Like I would if I was watching some sort of intimate drama, just with robots, explosions and zooming around going on?

I have a confession. I don't care about most of the fucking people I actually know! What happens to them? I could give a rats ass. Are they in danger or are they going to fulfill thier lifes potential or get to finally do whateverafuckadoola? I. do. not. fuck. ing. care. Except for my woman, and my muddah, I just want to see the world bleed. Usually. So maybe I'm not a good judge of these kinds of things.

Bale doing gruff Batman voice at times was a little annoying. It doesn't come off as his natural voice and it feels forced. He should stop using it to pretend he has man-balls.

[CoGro]

2 weeks, 90 million domestic total. Please let this tell WB, McG and whoever else actually thinks more Terminator is a good idea to fuck off.

[Raveers]

I downloaded the movie that's up here on the forum and just got done watching it. I enjoyed it, it wasn't too bad and the way how they made Arnold appear was pretty damn impressive. The CG use was pretty good and had me convinced it was really Arnold T-800.

All though I can see why this movie is doing poorly at the box office, I do hope that no other Terminator films are made. I know not a whole lot of people like Terminator 3 but I enjoyed it, however, I felt that there was no need to make a fourth one. We know what happens with the battle of humans versus the machines, we don't need to have a movie of it. I will most likely buy this on Blu-Ray.

I just kept an open mind about the film and that's probably why I liked it, but it's definitely not the best Terminator film. Nothing can beat Terminator 2.

[Ackbar]

I don't really get all the bashing. Like Troy, my standards may be shot to all hell, but I thought the movie was great for what it was. If I wanted cinema worthy of multiple Academy Awards, I'd turn the TV to Turner Classic Movies. What I wanted was something akin to a Universal Studios Terminator 3D experience, a cinematic video game action thriller like the old Terminator FPS-shooters for DOS. Like I said before, a post-apocalyptic world with terminators and explosions. That's what I got and I thought it was worth every cent of my half-priced ticket. In fact, compared to some of the anime and other shows friends have shown me lately, this movie made a hell of a lot more sense and was twice as fun. I might even see it again and it would be the first time I've done that since Return of the King.

[501ST]

Saw it,liked it,enjoyed it and really don't care if anyone else doesn't agree...

[DiMeS]

Just saw it for the 2nd time, good action film, this is definantly better then T3 but doesnt compete anywhere near T1 or T2. Id give it 7/10, without the Arnie cameo then a 6/10.

[SI]

I'm a fan of the Terminator franchise.

What shits me about this thread is everyone expressing mucho man-love over T2. Cameron nearly single-handedly destroyed his own work by turning Arnie into a hasta la vista no casualties mummies boy teenage rebel baby-sitter.

In saying that I thought T2 was just OK, T1 is the series, and T3 & T4 were worthy sequels.

It's all IMO of course and I'll no doubt get T:S on blu-ray and await the announcement of T5.

The day they bring Arnold back into the series as a no nonsense bad guy hell bent on fucking everyone and everything in an R rated massacre the better.

cheerio

[ETandElliott]

I know now why you cry. But tis someting I can nevah do.

[darthpsychotic]

SI - This thread is pretty tame compared to what the rest of the Internet has said. Terminator Salvation came in second place after the Ben Stiller sequel Night At The Museum 2 during it's opening weekend.

Regarding Schwarzenegger - he is getting on in his years as you can see below. There are also rumors of a US Senate run after his California Governorship.

[CoGro]

I don't believe that second picture is him. Not for a second.

[darthpsychotic]

Schwarzenegger has been California Governor for the past six years so obviously he has had not much time to work out or shoot up. It's also been said that the Presidency rapidly ages incumbents something which could probably be applied to someone who runs a state as large as California. The man is 61 now and the only way to get into Stallone shape is to drop out of politics and take some HGH (which Stallone does).



These images are somewhat old themselves from circa 2005. Feel free google image-search for Schwarzenegger, Schwarzenegger beach.

[ETandElliott]

He looks fine for a man of 61, in my opinion. I hope I look half as decent if/when I reach that age.

[darthpsychotic]

Schwarzenegger at 61 could chokeslam any one of us whilst simultaneously presiding over a state like California. It's just that the photos are jarring for those who haven't seen them yet. We tend to think of the famous in their prime and not how they appear now. Even Pitt and Depp are starting to show their age.

[SI]

oh yeah Arnold is getting too old for these types of movies and his days of being the governator don't seem to be ending anytime soon, but I'm just saying that having Arnie as the bad guy in a Terminator movie is gold - hence my preference of T1 over T2 anyday.

In saying that I thought the use of CGI in T:S to show a prototype T-800 was damn cool even for a putz like McFuck I mean McG.

If Arnie has one more movie in him I like him to play King Conan....oooh yea...

[yarq]

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[yarq]

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