Plotting VII

[Topeka]

J.W. Rinzler's blog post hints that there will be a passing of the torch from Luke to a younger generation. I can't even begin to imagine who the antagonist will be, though I would expect the inspiration to come from Lucas' notes rather than the EU.

I'm surprised at how receptive I am to a new trilogy. It's a weird thrill. I never expected this again.

[Bandersnatch]

I'm wondering if the antagonist might somehow tie into the more mystical, magical aspects of the Force that we are seeing in The Clone Wars. Witches, spirits, the Dark Side as an invisible entity sort of like Sauron in Lord of the Rings. Maybe the spirit of Sidious is lost in the netherworld, wanting to be "found."

Just pulling that out of my ass. However I agree, "Clone Sidious" would suck and would be a major cop-out, like bringing Spock back after he died just so he can talk to a damn whale in the next one.

[Alexrd]

Then there's also Mandalorians. They could be a good enemy, as long as they don't follow the EU.

[Bandersnatch]

And there are also all of those Bounty Hunters. Maybe they're pissed about Jabba the Hutt's death. The possibilities are pretty much limitless.

[Topeka]

Lucas has even said that Boba Fett survives the sarlacc. He would be an easy choice to bring back. I also think Mark Hamill will do everything he can to be involved.

This would be a great opportunity to explore the 'netherworld,' something Luke could be discovering as he ages. Could he be haunted by Palpatine? I like your thoughts, Bander. Could Ian come back to manifest as a ghost? How can the threat of Vader/Palpatine be topped? Ooh, speculation!

[Alexrd]

Lucas has even said that Boba Fett survives the sarlacc.

Did he? I don't recall that. As far as I know, he shot a scene where Boba was climbing out of the Sarlacc but he ended up removing it because it would be a loose end in the movie.

[Topeka]

2:58 here. This was at the recent convention.

[Alexrd]

2:58 here. This was at the recent convention.

Well, he could have said it as a joke. At least it's the impression I got.

[Treadwell]

I'm imagining the line "pass on what you have learned" will become the key quote, I can see it being all over the promotional campaign.

After that, I picture the big problem they face is keeping it interesting without copping out and reintroducing Sith in some unjustified way. No Sith, essentially, means no lightsaber duels.

In fact, it's a monumental challenge they face here. Personally, I'd rather see a film which logically endorses all that has gone before but features no Jedi/Sith lightsaber action than one that just brings on new Sith just for the sake of making sure there is a lightsaber duel or, worse still, resurrects some previous ones via cloning or some shit.

Other than Luke handing over the Jedi torch and the quest to reorganise society, I genuinely can't see where this is going, or where the action is coming from.
I can't wait to see what they come up with - good or bad...

[CoGro]

I'm imagining the line "pass on what you have learned" will become the key quote, I can see it being all over the promotional campaign.

After that, I picture the big problem they face is keeping it interesting without copping out and reintroducing Sith in some unjustified way. No Sith, essentially, means no lightsaber duels.

In fact, it's a monumental challenge they face here. Personally, I'd rather see a film which logically endorses all that has gone before but features no Jedi/Sith lightsaber action than one that just brings on new Sith just for the sake of making sure there is a lightsaber duel or, worse still, resurrects some previous ones via cloning or some shit.

Other than Luke handing over the Jedi torch and the quest to reorganise society, I genuinely can't see where this is going, or where the action is coming from.
I can't wait to see what they come up with - good or bad...

100% - hence the purpose of this thread. Return of the Jedi is the end of the saga. It ends on a completely fulfilling note. You know there's going to be lightsaber battles, but what kind of compelling threat will bring them? Dark Jedi? (ala the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series) I think that's kind of lame.

If the Sith come back, it can't be 20 years after ROTJ, otherwise it's going to completely cheapen the journey of the first 6 episodes (we went through the whole rise and fall of the Empire, culminating with the chosen one fulfilling his destiny, only for the Sith to return a few decades later?).

I still contend that Episode VII will be a direct sequel (a couple decades as opposed to a couple centuries after ROTJ), so I don't think they would effectively undo the work of the first two trilogies with a cheap trick.

[Joe1138]

I guess it all depends on just how long after "Jedi" Episode VII takes place. I can see the Jedi taking a back seat to sweeping story of intergalactic warfare in a post-Empire galaxy; a new Republic struggling to maintain control over a desperate group of star systems.

Luke is brought back in to investigate some ancient evil... something the Republic's forces aren't equipped to deal with and then you can go from there. The whole point of this trilogy is to get audiences back on board with Star Wars so we're going to see lots of space battles, daring escapes, maybe even a roguish smuggler or two so it's important that the plot allow for all the stuff audiences associate Star Wars with.

From a character standpoint I think it would be interesting to see a more conflicted Luke in this trilogy. With the Sith defeated is there a place for the Jedi? What can he do with this knowledge he's acquired? If he rebuilds the Jedi Order, does that mean the Sith will also return?

As for a new central character, I'd love to see a female lead.

[Inv8r]

Other than Luke handing over the Jedi torch and the quest to reorganise society, I genuinely can't see where this is going, or where the action is coming from.
I can't wait to see what they come up with - good or bad...

Turmoil has engulfed the New Republic! The taxation of newly re-established trade routes is in dispute, and Luke has dispatched a pair of New Jedi Order knights to negotiate a settlement with the intergalactic trucking union! Thrills, spills, cliff-hangers, and excitement ensues. Who couldn't be excited by a re-organization of Star Wars social structures?! Maybe we'll even see the move from imperial, every-man-for-themselves greed to (literally) universal health care! Woohoo!

On a more serious note, just wanted to pop in to call BULLSHIT on the TFN report this morning that writers (`top men`) have been visting LFL to pitch story ideas to Lucas. The one thing we know that Lucas HAS a story treatment, and he`s never been interested in hearing pitches from other writers on where the movies should go. Idiotic.

[Bandersnatch]

...just wanted to pop in to call BULLSHIT on the TFN report this morning that writers (`top men`) have been visting LFL to pitch story ideas to Lucas.

Agreed. Lucas and Kennedy have clearly stated that they are already working with a couple of writers. The film is supposed to come out in 2 1/2 years, so farting around with a dozen other "pitches" would be a waste of that relatively short time.

EDIT: The L.A.Times story they refer to says writers visited Lucasfilm "In the months before Disney announced it would acquire "Star Wars" studio Lucasfilm..." So that's actually quite possible.

[Inv8r]

The Sith have been destroyed and presumably the Force has been brought back into balance.

So, balance here meaning `Jedi still exist but the Sith are gone`. Strange definition of balance, which never sat right with me.

[Alexrd]

So, balance here meaning `Jedi still exist but the Sith are gone`. Strange definition of balance, which never sat right with me.

No. It's balance of the Force, not balance of the Jedi and Sith.

The Sith exploit the Force in unnatural ways, thus creating imbalance (at least that's my interpretation).

[DoubleSith]

No. It's balance of the Force, not balance of the Jedi and Sith.

The Sith exploit the Force in unnatural ways, thus creating imbalance (at least that's my interpretation).

I think that was a valid interpretation (and GL basically spelled it out - the inbalance was the Sith themselves) but the Mortis trilogy has thrown a wrench in thst. That storyline came directly from GL, and it seems to portray the Dark Side as necessary for balance.

[Alexrd]

No. It's balance of the Force, not balance of the Jedi and Sith.

The Sith exploit the Force in unnatural ways, thus creating imbalance (at least that's my interpretation).

I think that was a valid interpretation (and GL basically spelled it out - the inbalance was the Sith themselves) but the Mortis trilogy has thrown a wrench in thst. That storyline came directly from GL, and it seems to portray the Dark Side as necessary for balance.

Yes, the dark side is necessary, I'm not saying otherwise. But the Sith exploited the dark side (instead of leaving it alone), thus causing imbalance.

[Bandersnatch]

...the Mortis trilogy has thrown a wrench in this...

Perhaps this will be the premise for the new trilogy.

[E_CHU_TA!]

While I too think that everything will end on Mortis, I have a feeling that there may be a more complicated worldview than Darkside vs. Lightside. I keep coming back to my idea about a dying (or dead) Force.

One of my references for this theory is a Christian doctrine that pops up at the end of Dreyer’s Ordet. In the film, a character espouses that the miracles in the Bible were real and the reason that miracles do not occur any more is because humanity no longer has a capacity to believe in such things. He concludes that a more simple, devout, and open minded approach to the world will realign humanity with God.

So, with that mythological concept as a reference, I foresee a number of competing factions attempting to interpret the reasons for the Force’s departure. A few of these factions may be largely good, but have differing philosophies about the Force (a la real world religion).

Along comes someone with the last name Skywalker who is seen as the second coming of the Chosen One. When the various factions try to exploit her connection to the Force (in a Joan of Arc like manner), she is compelled to explore her lineage, sort out right from wrong, and find a path back to The Force.

I think that this story would have to take place at least fifty years after Jedi. It's possible that Hamill gives a clue in this ROTJ interview.

He states that he will be returning in that ST in a new form or as a new character. A new form seems to mean as a Force Spirit. So, at the least, the stroy takes place after Luke has passed on.

The new character statement really intrigues me. I think it may be a reference to cloning. I wonder if one of the more nefarious factions has been bringing back long dead Jedi and Sith. In turn, this could mean a return to Star Wars for more actors than Hamill (i.e. Nesson, McGregor, Christensen, Jackson, McDiarmid, Lee, Park, Witwer). If clones are in the mix, the new character should have the opposite affiliation of their previous onscreen persona. (Good Palpatine versus evil Yoda?)

[DoubleSith]

Also:

insidemovies.ew.com /star-wars-sequel-harrison-ford-han-solo-exclusive/

Harrison Ford is open to the idea of bringing Han Solo back to life on the silver screen in 2015, according to sources close to the just-announced Star Wars sequel, but don’t be surprised if his contract includes a mandatory death scene for the sly old space smuggler.

“Harrison is open to the idea of doing the movie and he’s upbeat about it, all three of them are,” said one highly placed source, referring to Ford, Mark Hamill, and Carrie Fisher, the trio that made a hyper-speed jump to global fame on May 25, 1977, the opening night for George Lucas’s original Star Wars film.

[Bandersnatch]

insidemovies.ew.com /star-wars-sequel-harrison-ford-han-solo-exclusive/

Nice, yet there is nothing in that Inside Movies link that suggests the Ford comments were made since the Episode 7 news broke. 2010 is the most recent Ford quote made in the story, and then the article just rehashes shit that we've been reading for almost a week now.

I think we need to be careful of what actual info versus regurgitated material we look into as all this develops.

[Bandersnatch]

I bet we'll see Hayden Christiansen come back as Anakin's ghost to speak to Luke. For that matter, we could see Yoda, too. Although Alec Guiness is dead, I wonder how hard it would be (legally and technically) to use his likeness for at least one or two scenes in his spirit form.

I seriously doubt Carrie Fisher or Harrison Ford would want anything to do with this, but they could at least appear in a holographic message or some other way. My theory is that they would make cameo appearances at the very most.

As discussed before, Ian McDiarmid could come back as Darth Sidious haunts Luke in his dreams.

I like the Fassbender idea. Also they could tap into some of the voice talent they've been using in the Clone Wars series.

But they could also drum up a whole new cast of actors we haven't even heard of yet.

And of course, Anthony Daniels.

[Topeka]

You just reminded me that Lucas has been buying up the likeness rights to deceased actors. I wonder if those permissions transferred to Disney? That's something that could be potentially way bigger than just Star Wars movies.

[Zaius]

vulture.com star-wars-episode-vii-may-have-found-its-writer.html

[BlackCriminalGangster2050]

vulture.com star-wars-episode-vii-may-have-found-its-writer.html

it looks like this dude's treatment is for the whole trilogy: deadline.com /next-star-wars-films-get-treatment-by-hunger-games-sequel-scribe-michael-arndt/

[thecolorsblend]

The list of what I don't want to see is probably shorter.

* No Sith. Anakin died to put them down. Bringing them back feels cheap.
* No Imperial remnant. This isn't a damned paperback book.
* No superweapons. ROTJ gets away with it only because of nostalgia.
* No clones.

The prequels revealed all kinds of shit we didn't know from the OT. Those lessons need to be taken into account.

* The Jedi cannot operate as a branch of the government. Luke should remember that lesson.

* Speaking of which, maybe emotional attachments, family lives and whatnot aren't such bad ideas after all.

* There's unlikely to be a big, unified government. Outer Rim worlds were ignored and abused by the Old Republic, invaded and occupied by the Separatists and then oppressed and tyranized by the Empire. Why the hell would they want to join up with some galaxy-wide, sprawling government?? The most I could imagine would be confederacies of independent systems joining forces but otherwise keeping to themselves (this is another reason a Jedi shouldn't be the Republic's bitch).

[bearvomit]

now they're saying they're bringing back Vader.

express.co.uk /Darth-Vader-to-be-resurrected/

Following news that Disney has bought the rights to the lucrative sci-fi franchise and plans to make at least three more movies, industry insiders say the evil Vader will grace the big screen again.

“He’s an integral part of the franchise. Replacing him is virtually impossible,” explains a film mole.

“The plan is for him to return and play a significant role in the new films.”

Former bodybuilder turned actor David Prowse donned the black body armour in the original three films but the character was voiced by James Earl Jones.

Actor Hayden Christensen, who starred in the subsequent Star Wars prequels, was the last actor to appear in the suit following his character Anakin Skywalker’s descent to the Dark Side.

Writer Michael Arndt is already working on the new Star Wars scripts.

Fellow old favourites Luke Skywalker, Han Solo and Princess Leia – played by Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher – have already been tipped to reprise their respective roles.

While Vader seemingly met his end in the 1983 film The Return Of The Jedi it seems this will not stop his comeback.

“This is science fiction remember,” we’re told. “Darth Vader will rise from the ashes.”

[Alexrd]

now they're saying they're bringing back Vader.

That screams BS...

[CoGro]

If Vader is cloned, I will throw something at the screen.

It's very tough to believe this is anything but pure BS.

[BlackCriminalGangster2050]

I could almost see it if it was somebody else in Vader's armor, there's plausible stuff they could do with that and still sell Vader toys...but Anakin Skywalker? WTF.

[Zaius]

The iconography of Vader could return (mask/cape/armour) maybe a symbol of some kind of extremist (Sith worshipping) faction that dabbles in the force and sets off something big. The return of Vader ? That would be wrong imo.


Here's a mini write up of the new writer ... I'm optimistic



moviesblog.mtv.com /star-wars-michael-arndt/

[Mike_Droideka]

The only way it could work, would be if Anakin Skywalker's spirit was to appear in the film.
Resurrecting Darth Vader, after we saw him getting the old Barbeque treatment in Episode VI, would be pretty lame.

[Topeka]

I'm not buying it. I don't think even Disney would risk pissing of 100% of the fans of their newest cash cow.

[Joe1138]

It's the British press, they'll run any item.

[Bandersnatch]

express.co.uk /Darth-Vader-to-be-resurrected/

“This is science fiction remember”

Really? Since when?

[pjvader]

frank marshall says they got the directors down to a couple of candidates

[ETandElliott]

The original trilogy has withstood the test of time and will continue to endure. They are clearly among the greatest movies of all time, especially Star Wars and Empire. The prequels are getting worse with age. I became pretty disenchanted with them around the time Revenge of the Sith came out.

At this point, I'm expecting the worst from a new trilogy.

As much as I want Spielberg involved, it just sounds too good to be true. I think he would do a fantastic job, but I believe LFL looking to inject young blood into the mix.

Would he really? He couldn't save Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

[Alexrd]

The prequels are getting worse with age.

I'd say otherwise.

[Bandersnatch]

I'd say otherwise.

Agreed. While I still think parts of TPM and the first hour of AOTC could have been trimmed a bit, I really dig the Prequels more and more. And as far as the originals go, Return of the Jedi is even starting to grow on me after nearly 30 years.

[cantina_patron]

The original trilogy has withstood the test of time and will continue to endure. They are clearly among the greatest movies of all time, especially Star Wars and Empire.

That wasn't always true.

"The 1990 edition of Dale Pollock’s “Skywalking,” a George Lucas biography, called Star Wars a ‘70s fad. Meet any other fannish types prior to 1991 and their usual reaction to your Star Wars fandom was, “Why are you still into that?”"

starwarsprequelappreciationsociety.wordpress.com

I still know a lot of people who think the originals are a bunch of silly movies for kids with ancient special effects (they might or might not like the prequels, it's not always related).

Say what you want about the quality of the prequels, but they did put Star Wars back on the map. Sure, not without controversy, but it's still better to have a divided and bickering fandom than none at all.

The prequels are getting worse with age. I became pretty disenchanted with them around the time Revenge of the Sith came out.

I have to disagree. I watch the entire saga every year or so and I think the prequels (even the special effects) hold up pretty well. My opinion stays mostly the same. Some things still manage to irritate me while others (like politics) have actually grown on me.

[cantina_patron]

I'd say otherwise.

Agreed. While I still think parts of TPM and the first hour of AOTC could have been trimmed a bit, I really dig the Prequels more and more. And as far as the originals go, Return of the Jedi is even starting to grow on me after nearly 30 years.

I certainly appreciate ROTJ more after the prequels. The Emperor was kind of meh before I saw how devious he'd actually been.

ROTJ got lucky that the Internet was still in its infancy when it came out. I can only imagine what sites like AICN would have said about it...

[Treadwell]

The original trilogy has withstood the test of time and will continue to endure. They are clearly among the greatest movies of all time, especially Star Wars and Empire. The prequels are getting worse with age. I became pretty disenchanted with them around the time Revenge of the Sith came out.

Well, just to add another voice to this side of the argument, I totally agree with the above.

I am not against the PT in any way, and, back when they came out, I got very wrapped up in the experience of seeing new Star Wars movies in the cinema and enjoyed them. Glad they happened, still now, even if I don't have the same fondness for them.

However my affection for the PT diminishes with each passing year. As far as I am concerned, the OT is in a different league - and 70/80s hairstyles and "80s special effects" shouldn't even be part of the discussion - they are better because of everything else they offered beyond those stylistic trappings.

Living in the UK, I grew up with the OT as it was first released, and personally I don't recall any resentment towards it, not over here at least. It certainly "dropped off the radar" between the late 80s and the Dark Horse comics era through to the Special Editions, but from my experience people either moved on from it with fond memories or remained fanatical about it - they didn't suddenly turn against those three movies they enjoyed as kids.

I was always a fan, and my love of those films probably grew through that period, if anything purely because taped-from-TV recordings of those films were all I had to go on. There was no Star Wars "saturation".

Seriously, Star Wars changed the world in 1977.

All the PT ever did was change people's feelings towards Star Wars for better or worse. It's as simple as that - you cannot compare the two as a bona fide cultural phenomenon, no matter what you think of them, subjectively, as films. The phenomenon lives on - hence we are all here now - regardless of what you think of which particular movie in comparison to the next.

The point is, I doubt any new SW film could create the phenomenon again. The best outcome is that it perpetuates this phenomenon respectfully and entertainingly.
Thought-provokingly would be a bonus.

[Joe1138]

I'd say otherwise.

Agreed. While I still think parts of TPM and the first hour of AOTC could have been trimmed a bit, I really dig the Prequels more and more. And as far as the originals go, Return of the Jedi is even starting to grow on me after nearly 30 years.

Couldn't agree more. I actually waited a year after the Blu-ray boxset came out and screened all six movies over the course of a week recently and was so surprised by how well everything just comes together. Are there moments that work better than others? Of course. But as a complete work, Lucas has really done something remarkable here.

[CoGro]

Lando in Episode VII?

bleedingcool.com /star-wars-rumour-lando-back-in-michael-arndts-sequel-plans/

[pjvader]

Lando in Episode VII? bleedingcool.com /star-wars-rumour-lando-back-in-michael-arndts-sequel-plans/

[Joe1138]

Boy they are really courting the fan base big time with this move. I doubt the decision to bring Kasdan onboard was a creative one. Lawrence Kasdan isn't exactly part of the "next generation of filmmakers."

EDIT:

What if he's actually directing VIII or IX rather than VII? There're some rumors they might be shot back-to-back.

Today's announcement certainly makes it seem like they're prepping all three at once so a back-to-back shoot is possibility. They probably won't start shooting until spring or summer '13 so that leaves plenty of time to develop scripts for the sequels. However, one of the advantages of shooting sequels back-to-back is the consistency between cast and crew. Why shift direction (literally) midstream with a new filmmaker behind the lens?

I doubt they would shoot VII by itself and follow it up with a back to back shoot of VIII and IX (thus opening the door for a another director to step in) but I guess anything's possible at this point. There's precedence for this type of thing happening with the Matrix and Back to the Future sequels but in both of those cases the filmmakers didn't sell the studio on the idea of a trilogy at the time they were getting the first film made.

[Joe1138]

18 year olds now were born in 1994. You could argue that was the target age group of the prequels.

By and large, the people who were excited about the prequels were already invested in Star Wars by '99 thanks to the groundwork laid out by the special editions, '95 home video re-release and even the re-launch of the POTF line. Timing is everything. If you weren't onboard by May 19, no amount of Doritos or KFC were going to get you hyped.

It's not even that Lucas had complete creative control, massive budgets, modern technology and was surrounded by yes-men. Unfortunately, George had kids and became a reclusive out-of-touch old guy. He fucking got old and wasn't great at making movies anymore.

I'd argue that the prequels are even more representative of Lucas's vision and his abilities as a filmmaker than the original trilogy. We all know that Lucas (by his own admission) was never a strong writer and was more interested in making experimental films. His earliest films (the short subjects, THX 1138, even American Graffiti) were examples of very non-traditional films whose story and plot were in service of characters, ideas and themes.

The prequels represent that same filmmaker's attempt to paint a very personal story on a very broad canvas. I'm not interested in getting into another pissing match about whether or not the prequels were good since we've beaten that horse senseless by this point but I will say that with those movies you are dealing with one man's tastes and limitations in every frame.

You are also getting that same man's views and opinions on religion, heroism and fate vs. free will (among other themes) all wrapped up in an endlessly compelling package that if you accept and embrace holistically can be as engaging as a thought-provoking lecture and as fun as a roller coaster. This is why, no matter how much critics may try to credit others for its success and longevity, Star Wars will always be synonymous with George.

[Bandersnatch]

First Possible Plot Details For STAR WARS: EPISODE VII Emerge



reuters.com /us-maya-calendar-starwars-idUSBRE8BH16120121218/

[CoGro]

Wouldn't surprise if true- seems obvious.

But also could be nothing but sloppy media.

[E_CHU_TA!]

Forget the the EU derived Yavin stuff; it's speculation:

---

"This paragraph understandably caused a lot of excitement and confusion. I assumed right away that McDonald had either misunderstood the role of the Expanded Universe novels about Luke Skywalker's Jedi academy on Yavin 4 or misinterpreted what some fans told him when he asked about the Guatemalan temples. As it turns out, I was right on both counts. I reached out to McDonald by email, and here's what he had to say:

"This was a mistake. I misunderstood what fan clubs had told me and shown me in book plots and that storyline has not been announced by Disney. Perhaps I should have written something along the lines of 'Yavin 4 appears in several Star Wars book plots and while Guatemala fans said they hope film crews return to Tikal, the company has not announced plans for the new episode."

---

There's clearly no reason to bring back any weak prequel characters like Mace Windu...???

Why in God's name would you want to see Samuel L. Jackson being monotone, boring and ridiculously out of place...again, in unrelated sequels taking place at least 40 years after he fell out of a window? His character was never really important anyway. I don't care what the TV show established or that he was in the room holding a purple lightsaber when Anakin became Darth Vader.

The cameo could be very brief. For instance, there may be a scene which features a hologram of the PT-era Jedi Council discussing information pertinent to the plot of Episodes 7 through 9. In this manner, McGregor and Jackson could be brought back to reprise their roles as Council members.

Of course, there is also the chance of a more prominent part via the Jedi spirit or evil clone route .....