Anti-Sequel Trilogy

[ETandElliott]

Does anyone else just not want to see ANYTHING of this?


For fear of literally the ultimate childhood rape. They've ruined everything else in life. The backstory of Star Wars, Star Trek, Steven Spielberg, film scores, even Indiana Jones. I don't know how they even pulled off that last one. Did anyone see that shit coming? Indiana Jones not even using a gun and killing people? What in the fuck?

Yet, despite this...despite the ruining of Anakin, Obi-Wan, the robots and everything else. Despite all those shitty designs of aliens, planets and technology that looked nothing like Star Wars.

Despite the changes to the old movies with all that bogus CGI, Han not being allowed to murder in cold blood and Jar Jar hopping around in Return of the Jedi, our beloved Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, Yoda, Ben and Vader were not ruined.

Now here we are (how many years later??) with modern Hollywood just manufacturing total shit and suddenly our childhood heroes are being brought out of retirement for more movies.

DO. NOT. WANT.

I honestly don't think I can take it. Dear God, this will be all you hear from me. I will stay away from anything. If I have to avoid certain aisles in the grocery store when the movie comes out because of promotional packaging, I will.

[Bandersnatch]

DO. NOT. WANT.

THEN. DO. NOT. SEE.

Personally, I am willing to wait until after the movies come out to pass judgement. If you are hell bent on hating it now, then I'm pretty sure you will hate it no matter what in 2 years.

[The_Somnambulist]

ETAndElliot4Ever is my antithesis.

[Cryostar]

I honestly don't think I can take it. Dear God, this will be all you hear from me. I will stay away from anything. If I have to avoid certain aisles in the grocery store when the movie comes out because of promotional packaging, I will.

Might I suggest finding a nice, cushy rock to live under then? Clearly, you have no idea how the Disney propoganda machine works. There will be NO place that you can turn without seeing Episode VII somewhere.

Honestly, it's a movie. You survived the prequels, you'll survive the sequels, and you may even enjoy them.

Just be prepared for lens flare and shaky cam.

[ETandElliott]

I realize that my rants are insane, but it's the truth.

"Somewhere, your grandpa is laughing."

[The_Somnambulist]

Please don't cite that line as if it's some sort of automatic travesty.

Your rant is far from the truth if by truth you mean the definitive consensus among the young people for whom these films are primarily intended.

This ranting, which could in fact be pathological, is of a desperate and miniscule fraternity of people who typically appear over anything that becomes popular and iterative. Stuck in the past; fearful of change; longing for that original, introductory high and vainly wishing that their childhoods went on 4Ever.

[TroyObliX]

I cannot fault ET&EFE for feeling this way, in the big picture sense. It isn't out of left field altogether. It is a little scary, wondering what will become of the SW universe.

But outright rejecting it before you see it seems a little overboard.

Was I as much a fan of the PT as I was of the OT? Nope.

Did some of the changes made for the SE's seem kind of "stupid" to me? Yep.

Am I still geeked like a muff rucker for new Star Wars? Hell freaking yes I am.

[Topeka]

I get what ET is meaning although maybe I would say it with less bombast. To retread expectations for the series can lead to a case of "Fool me once, fool me twice, fool me thrice..."

That being said, I think JJ is as much influenced by the OT as any of us. I think he has the eye to create something that will mesh with what we're a fan of.

[Cryostar]

You know, I'm not a huge Prequel fan, but it wasn't until the last 2 years, when my 10 year old has really grown to love the prequels, that I've gotten an appreciation for them.

They are, to her, what the original was to me. She got the Anakin to Vader 12" doll tonight....she played with it for hours....she loves it. And so loves the original trilogy even more for it.

[Treadwell]

I'll watch these movies out of morbid curiosity.
And if they turn out to be good somehow, then that's just a bonus.

I guess I feel the same as ETAndElliot4Ever, but in a very laid back way. None of the crap that has gone on has made me like the original films any less.
I mean, something like Jedi Rocks boils my piss whenever I see it, but I suppose the "THEN. DO. NOT. SEE." summary works for me.
I can still watch the original versions and, yeah, it's not in the format they deserve, but I'm not going to waste my energy demanding they be remastered and released immediately and getting all mad about it all.

I didn't hate the prequels, I just didn't think they were very good either. It's no big deal.
I've not really got any expectations for these sequels, and that's not necessarily to do with the prequels, it's more to do how the movie industry in general is at the moment.
But no expectations means I can't be disappointed by them at least...

[Longtime_Sunshine]

I sympathize with the 80s youth who now have to pay top dollar as 30-40 year olds for reboots/remakes/box sets/downloads/t-shirts etc. etc of their favorite stuff. But I don't think 80s pop culture is the pinnacle of art that needs to be untouched and preserved. I'd imagine it has a lot to do with nostalgia and sentimentality but I'm not sure 90s pop culture will be lionized the same way the Internet and movie fans honor the 80s. Maybe it was after seeing the Alamo Drafthouse 100 that made me think the 80s gave us iconic and groundbreaking movies, but so did every other decade.

For Star Wars specifically, I think there's every right to feel nervous about the new sequels or pissed that there are no original cuts available in a decent format--that's something all movie lovers deserve, not just the Echo Boomers or SW fans. My Star Wars movies were the prequels. I was a 10, 13, 16 respectively when they came out. I was the perfect age. I was also, of course, was disappointed by many of the things in the prequels. I think that mentality has carried over into these new movies: hope for the best, expect the worst. The difference is that the prequels had a point. These new three are going to be a different animal, totally free from connecting the dots between 6 movies. I'm excited, anxious, nervous, and a tiny fraction of me is optimistic.

[CoGro]

I'm not afraid about the movies being well-made: I think at their respective stages of their careers, JJ is a better filmmaker than George Lucas. He pays more attention to detail, is a better writer, knows how to get the best out of his actors, manages visual effects better and is a better editor. I can almost guarantee we won't get as many cringe-inducing moments or a hacked up John Williams score like we did in the prequels.

What I am worried about, as Longtime_Sunshine said, is the purpose of the sequel trilogy. I'm not convinced that there is a compelling story left to be told. Retreading Vader/Palpatine with a new cast of characters isn't going to do it for me and I'm going to dislike anything that has to do with clones.

[The_Somnambulist]

I think at their respective stages of their careers, JJ is a better filmmaker than George Lucas. He pays more attention to detail, is a better writer, knows how to get the best out of his actors, manages visual effects better and is a better editor.

Whoa. That's a bold and sweeping claim. And I, for the most part, really like Abrams' films.

But if by respective stages you're referring to the point in their careers where they arrived at the peak of creative freedom after a string of super-hits and spent as much time being mini-moguls as directors, then I completely disagree.

George Lucas far outdoes J.J. Abrams as a filmmaker in the following ways:

-Inventive and balletic staging of action (Star Wars trilogy; you suggested as much in the Star Trek Into Darkness thread, CoGro)
-Experimenting with narrative form and use of music (student films, THX 1138, American Graffiti)
-Experimenting with sound/visual editing (student films, THX 1138 [relationship with Walter Murch, who literally invented the concept of sound design], Star Wars trilogy)
-Dealing with headier, more mature themes (THX 1138, original involvement with Apocalypse Now)
-Pioneering visual effects technology where virtually none existed (ANH)
-Birthing major franchises and companies (Star Wars, Indiana Jones; Lucasfilm, ILM, Pixar)
-Practicing big-budget studio interference-free filmmaking (everything post-ANH)
-Shrewd business decisions and courting of studios (negotiating ANH merchandising and sequel rights; use of McQuarrie illustrations to pitch ANH)

That last one is the stuff of legend. I'm sure this list is far from complete but it's these aspects that spring immediately to mind.

Lucas was just an infinitely more interesting and consumate filmmaker than Abrams at that aforementioned stage in their careers. Lucas may not be as prolific, but it's the quality that matters. And coming from someone who comes from a visual arts background and cares deeply about the uniquely visual and kinetic potency of film that Lucas' directorial filmography exudes, I find that to be a clear and simple truth.

I'd appreciate it if someone countered with Abrams' outstanding accomplishments/creative traits (outside of the obligatory "mystery box" scheme). I've seen all of the films he's directed and I can barely conjure in my mind a list as impressive as Lucas'. C'mon, what do you expect? We're on a Star Wars board.

[CoGro]

Whoa. That's a bold and sweeping claim. And I, for the most part, really like Abrams' films.

But if by respective stages you're referring to the point in their careers where they arrived at the peak of creative freedom after a string of super-hits and spent as much time being mini-moguls as directors, then I completely disagree.

I meant at this stage of their careers - i.e. George Lucas' twilight and JJ Abrams' prime. I don't think anyone could successfully argue that George's second wind as a filmmaker has been as good as his prime. Contrarily, JJ has been getting better with every film he directs.

[The_Somnambulist]

My bad.

Lucas had already built his figurative kingdom by the time he returned to filmmaking in the late 90s. So there's not as much ground-breaking and necessarily clever maneuvering going on. But many of the creative traits I've laid out live on rapturously in the prequels.

I'm not prepared to attempt to persuade anyone tonight about what I feel is a second renaissance for Star Wars with the prequels. Maybe I'll bare my soul and attempt it one day. But I don't agree that Abrams could top a Lucas-directed sequel trilogy. Abrams is a passable filmmaker with, as you said, an increasingly impressive oeuvre of films. But he lacks those formally economic, visually inclined, subversive, avant-garde, family friendly, simultaneously low and high brow leanings that Lucas' more involved directorial work has always been infused with.

A shining example of what I'm talking about is the unlikeliness that Abrams would ever engineer anything remotely like the delightfully incongruous, mechanically sonorous and fiercely kinetic pod race in TPM, one of the prequel's best features. Find Lucas' student film, 1:42.08: A Man and His Car (1966), below and you'll see that the much maligned prequel-era Lucas has been here all along.

[flash width=560 height=315]http://www.youtube.com/v//WPtuWnsftlc?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0&hd=1[/flash]

But I'm still excited and rooting for Abrams to pull off something grand. I think he will. Even though a small part of me thinks we're getting two hour-long Old Republic cut scenes.

[SI]

Sign me up for this shit.

I am curiously optimistic about what JJ can do. No way am I prepared to throw the toys out of the pram and have a big dummy spot 2 years before the movie even comes out

[BlackCriminalGangster2050]

Sign me up for this shit.

I am curiously optimistic about what JJ can do. No way am I prepared to throw the toys out of the pram and have a big dummy spot 2 years before the movie even comes out

That's where I'm at with it, I've waited for this since I was 10 years old. "What happens next?" is always going to be a more compelling question than "what happened before?", because you can already see the effects of what previously happened, while the future is a blank canvas. It could suck, it could be great, or it could be somewhere in between, but it's undiscovered territory (that goes for the movie itself as much as for the entire "franchise", as much as I hate using that word to describe anything besides fast food joints). I agree with most of The_Somnambulist's points as far as Lucas>Abrams, but directing SW7 is going to be the biggest moment of truth in Abram's entire career, and I'm sure he knows that better than anybody...and I'm sure Lucas was aware of that when he told Kennedy to go after Abrams so aggressively; he (Lucas) must see something in him beyond just being a commercially successful director. Things can always go wrong, but nobody is going to trust their legacy to a hack, least of all the very shrewd George Lucas.

I couldn't be more excited for the ST, and I can't wait 'til we start getting substantial news or rumors. If it all sucks? Life will go on, and we'll still have all of the Star Wars we loved before.

[E_CHU_TA!]

If it sucks, there will still be other Star Wars films. If Abrams doesn’t get it quite right, someone else may later on.

To me, it’s not rational to argue that Star Wars films should stop with Lucas. After all, I’m glad that Batman stories have continued long past the involvement of Bob Kane.

I recently re-watched the Mortis episodes from the Clone Wars series. Like some elements in the Clone Wars series, that arc came out of left felid. Yet at the same time, it melded well with the existing films while adding a new layer top the overall story. I’m optimistic that the Sequel Trilogy can do the same.

[The_Somnambulist]

...he (Lucas) must see something in him beyond just being a commercially successful director. Things can always go wrong, but nobody is going to trust their legacy to a hack, least of all the very shrewd George Lucas.

I recall reading somewhere about the making of ESB that Lucas said that ESB didn't need to be as good as ANH.

This isn't intended as a slight against Lucas but that admission conveys a telling leniency about the franchise's ultimate direction and an understanding that a commercially successful but slightly less artful continuation of the series is adequate. I think Lucas' satisfaction with Abrams is a similar loosening of the reins.

[Joe1138]

Thanks for posting 1:42.08, The_Somnambulist, don't think I've ever seen it in its entirety.

I recall reading somewhere about the making of ESB that Lucas said that ESB didn't need to be as good as ANH.

I'm pretty sure Kersh was quoted as saying (on the Empire of Dreams doc, no less) that George told him Empire not only needed to be bigger but better than than the first film in order to be successful and allow the series to continue.

I've enjoyed reading everyone's comments in this thread and have had my share of hand wringing over the last year thinking about the necessity and potential quality of the sequels and spin off films. Here's my take:

At the end of the day, I'm an unabashed George Lucas fan. I think the man has contributed more to film than any other single director in the history of the medium. He also gave me a love of and appreciation for film and for that I'll be eternally grateful and always in his debt.

I want the new films to be good, great even. At this point, I'm less concerned with the details of the plot and characters and more concerned that these films remind the public that Star Wars is great, that George has created and given us something special.

I'll always consider George to be bigger than Star Wars but for the vast majority of people, I know he'll always be connected to his creation much like Walt Disney and Mickey Mouse or Chuck Jones and Bugs Bunny are inseparable. This is his legacy and I couldn't be happier if Abrams and Disney made an entertaining, crowd pleasing film that ushered in a perpetual wellspring of Star Wars fandom and fervor.

As for me, I got (and continue to get) what I need out of Star Wars from the six released movies. Everything after ROTS is just icing on the cake.

[The_Somnambulist]

Hate to continue this Lucas circlejerk (even though I'm enjoying it and kinda started it) but the below video, featuring Lucas addressing the idea of happiness, sums up my understanding of Lucas' basic philosophical approach to filmmaking:

[flash width=560 height=315]http://www.youtube.com/v//CnHyStDZ3_U?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0&hd=1[/flash]

This may seem a bit abstract but Lucas succeeds on levels many others don't because he's not solely striving for throwaway, disposable, emotional, one-trick peaks of pleasure in his work. As weird as that sounds. The formal restraint, stylistic austerity and consumate care he also endows the totality of his more involved directorial body of work with is about capturing the joy he describes in the above video. "[Joy] is in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure."

[Topeka]

I love that clip. He can be really profound, and I think he does his best to carry those ideas over into his filmmaking. His creative mind is really second to none, even Spielberg.

What was missing perhaps from his later films is a decent writer who could really translate those ideas to screen. So he did it all himself, and as he's said in interviews, he doesn't enjoy that process. I think that's why there are scenes in the prequels that make me cringe. The ideas are in there, even more so the right ideas, they were just executed a bit clumsily.

[The_Somnambulist]

I kinda agree. The writing is serviceable. But it gets you from point A to point B in a disarmingly clear and simple way (with some delicious double meaning and irony, on occasion). I'm fine with that. Nothing in the prequels makes me cringe. Peculiar for a cineast and aspiring filmmaker in his late 20s, I know.

[501ST]

Whilst I realise he has his detractors and the "lens flare" aspect upsets many I do think J.J. Abrams has served the Star Trek franchise very well in terms of fidelity to the originals.


So.... I am HOPING that this translates to the saga.

[CoGro]

I'm hoping we get more information about this motion picture sometime in 2014.

[Bandersnatch]

I bet we will see some sort of teaser trailer in December.

[Zaius]

http://www.empireonline.com/features/st ... rain-trust

[CoGro]

http://www.slashfilm.com/video-kevin-sm ... set-visit/

Watch Kevin Smith talk about his Star Wars visit. It's like he's seen God.

[Guru]

I am not gonna lie, I am a big fan of Kevin Smith. But he sounds so earnest, it makes me incredibly giddy for Ep 7. I can't wait to start seeing some footage and official stills

[CoGro]

Totally agree. I'm a big fan of his. I've engaged with him a few times - once at an event in Toronto and had an email back and forth with him - and he's been very graceful and down-to-earth. He could very well be one of us dorks arguing about the Clone Wars and whether or not George should re-release the original OT.

Hearing him describe his experience brought me joy so I salute him.

[yarq]

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[yarq]

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