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millenniumfalcon.com • View topic - MF Reviews VIII
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Post Posted: December 16th 2017 7:06 am
 
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I have absolutely nothing against building more political elements into it, in fact I’d welcome it, but it has to be done organically, as part of the narrative. Now one can argue that part of the narrative is all about these ‘grey areas’ in terms of what constitutes good and bad... but I just don’t think the sequels do it very well. There’s little point in trying to suggest to the audience that things aren’t black and white when the antagonists are presenented as such caricatures and the protagonists as heroic. I really wish I liked it more, I want to... but I can’t get past its basic flaws, specifically in relation to story and characterisation.


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 8:39 am
 
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In ROTS, Anakin/Vader literally quotes George W. Bush. You don't get more beaten over the head than that.

Not that there's anything wrong with it. I love a little social-political commentary in movies. Like Caesar in War for the Planet of the Apes: "Why do you need a wall?"


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 9:02 am
 
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Post Posted: December 16th 2017 9:40 am
 
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Dammit, I had 24h to digest it after leaving the cinema colder than I could ever anticipate, and the more I dig in my own thought process as much as reading others reactions, the more I'm sure there is no turning back: this movie is plain bad, as much for the too numerous formal problems which a few nice things can't outdo, than at its very core, something is completely out of place and can't be spinned as "bold new take"... yes dammit, what a shameful mess, and judging from K.Kennedy self satisfaction all along in this -no trouble- production, from today I'm positive without caution anymore that she is actually shallow as f*** for real.

Maybe I'll elaborate further to chime in on constructive criticism, maybe not, as you guys have already made a lot of good points.

ps: what the hell are they smoking at these ecstatic premier events?


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 9:47 am
 
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Judging from fan reaction here and elsewhere, I’d say I’ve never exerprienced a film that both appeals massively to critics whilst turning off a huge section of the fan base. I literally don’t know a single person who rates it. Very odd times.


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 11:13 am
 
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Its a huge stretch to say that TLJ has a decidedly left pov. Rose simply states that rampant war profiteering is bad; especially when you make most of your money from murdering oppressive regimes like The First Order. What's so controversial about that?

I always felt that the "political" elements of the PT where the result of an over-interpretation of the films' themes. Lucas deconstruction of The Republic was based on historical precedents. Any early 21st century parallels were a product of coincident and the repetitive nature of humanity. (Plus, Bush did not originate the "with-us or against-us" world view. And, Anakin did not quote him word for word.)

Concerning the disparate reactions to TLJ, I think the range of opinions is due to the movie's complexity. TLJ wants to equally deconstruct and embrace Star Wars. Since I'm attached to all Star Wars elements that the movie subverts, it leaves me emotionally confused. For me, that's not a bad thing.


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 11:59 am
 

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The film shows both sides are working with bad people... I wish the average person understood that. no prob by me


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 1:05 pm
 
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Post Posted: December 16th 2017 1:06 pm
 

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Post Posted: December 16th 2017 2:52 pm
 
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I've been processing my thoughts since Thursday and there's a lot I agree with that has already been written. I'm seeing it a second time tonight, so I want to really let it soak in before letting loose.


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 4:42 pm
 
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Somebody refresh my memory. Did anybody say "I have a bad feeling about this" in this movie?


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 4:46 pm
 

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Post Posted: December 16th 2017 4:47 pm
 

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BB-8...


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 4:50 pm
 

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Had my first screening last night with a packed enthusiastic crowd, for the most part un-spoiled except for whispers here and there of major characters dying. My father just passed away in October, so I thought it might be an especially emotional Star Wars film for me. I got through TLJ without shedding a tear, so I think emotionally it's really far away from the sentimental Star Wars that I'm used to, that even JJ Abrams understood.

As the movie went on it was apparent that Rian Johnson takes great pleasure in jumping up and down on our sacred cows. It has the benefit of being not what you expected but at the expense of these films being cohesive operatic stanzas.

I love Star Wars, and I did enjoy TLJ. The crowd I saw it with loved it. Even with it's flaws it is still a very well made Star Wars film, even if I didn't agree with some of the creative choices. The Luke backstory with Ben was great as well as Lukes arc, the Rey/Kylo interaction, I even liked the rose/finn storyline. The complexity of this film gives it a richness that the other films don't have. There's some good themes in TLJ, and it did feel like Star Wars during most of the movie. I just think Rian has some directing/writing blind spots when it comes to Star Wars that resulted in something less than ideal. I'm really surprised they're going to give him a whole trilogy. I can understand the outrage that some are feeling at TLJ.

I'm still digesting the soundtrack (I love John Williams, I think he's doing a fine job at his age). I especially liked the ANH tie fighter callback, and his use of Rey & Kylo's theme sprinkled throughout the movie. Need to listen to it more and process the new music.

All in all I'm happy were still getting Star Wars movies and that the people who make them still care. But this one really could be interpreted as middle finger to some fans and conspiracy theorists.


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 8:06 pm
 
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Post Posted: December 16th 2017 8:33 pm
 
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Post Posted: December 16th 2017 8:42 pm
 
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Are/were the Preatorian Guards the Knights of Ren? :o


Post Posted: December 16th 2017 9:03 pm
 
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Good question. I hope not, because the Preatorian Guard suck at their job. Their fight sequence with Ren and Rey was a zero-drama time waster. I wish they would have gotten the same brief take-down that Yoda gave to the Royal Guards in ROTS.


Post Posted: December 17th 2017 10:27 am
 
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Post Posted: December 17th 2017 10:32 am
 
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Post Posted: December 17th 2017 12:32 pm
 
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...................

.......

... dammit, I'm all Kylo'ed on this one

so I just rewatched it over 2 days in crappy cam internet version.

To say the least I had better perspective than in front of giant 3d screen.... and ugh... actually stuff I found really terrible and poor on first viewing I thought this time they were great if not fucking brilliant, in this observation of both twisting/crushing and embracing the saga's myths, in the idea of generational passing on, to which Yoda's scene is central. There is a part of me saying all this is actually... pretty excellent. Puzzling.

For sure I still think stuff like space Leia are bad taste in execution.... but there are those moments in each of the films for me. For instance I can't argue against someone who despise the cheesiness of Anakin-Padmé scenes, but I have shameless appreciation for all those scenes in what I see they bring to the bigger picture and that's part of why I love the prequels.

I'll write more later, but it's going to be interesting..........

The modern dialogue style and tone can quite bug me at times, but they are going with this contemporary style since TFA, they chose it to define this era 30 years after ROTJ just like the prequels have a different tone, and while it's not always my cup of tea it arguably makes sense as a creative choice for this piece of popular culture.


Post Posted: December 17th 2017 1:38 pm
 
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Post Posted: December 17th 2017 2:04 pm
 
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Post Posted: December 18th 2017 9:43 am
 
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Took in a second viewing yesterday. Some completely random thoughts/observations:

I hated the broom kid scene at first. Now, I'm understanding it so much better. Normal Star Wars movies would have ended on that pull-back shot of the group on the Millennium Falcon. But the broom kid scene contains so much meaning...it speaks to the wonder and dream we all had as kids watching the original trilogy. It speaks to the role Luke Skywalker has in the galaxy after death. I also have to think that kid will pop up in a future film. It also calls back to the spirit of ANH, in that anyone can be a Jedi. During ANH, we had no idea of Luke's parentage, yet we accepted the special abilities that were within him. Rey's path, now that we've established her parents are nobody special, reflects this, as does the broom kid.

The biggest disappointment for me, and this breaks my heart to say so, is the soundtrack. I counted one new theme, and that was for Rose, a character I didn't find particularly compelling or interesting. The OST didn't contain some of the better musical moments from the film, especially on Crait and in the Rey-Ren-guards duel. Hopefully we'll get new material in a For Your Consideration release. Rogue One's soundtrack was more rich, had more new themes and had more variety to it.

The entire Crait sequence is so heavy with stunning visuals and drama. Breathtaking in every way.

In the post-prequel films, is this the smallest role Chewbacca has played? I thought he and Finn had some buddy team-up potential in TFA. If there was a way to get Chewie back with the Resistance, he could easily have filled the role of Rose.

I have no idea where Ep. 9 will or could go. Biggest factor will be, is there any kind of time jump from the end of TLJ? I feel like there has to be for two reasons: 1. to build up the reborn Rebellion to be a force big enough to credibly battle the First Order and 2. to deal with the death of Leia/Carrie Fisher. Let's say there is 3-year time jump...I can see Ep. 9 opening with Leia's funeral. That could be a galvanizing event for the new Rebellion as it heads towards a final confrontation with the First Order. It can also deal with Fisher's passing in as natural way possible. Just throwing my theories out there.

But Rian Johnson has provided us a challenging, complex and worthy addition to the saga.


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 10:11 am
 

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Post Posted: December 18th 2017 11:18 am
 
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Holdo is worse than Jar Jar? :|

I agree, having Ackbar sacrifice himself would have been great. Keep Holdo around for the next movie. I didn't think she was that bad. It seems that for every one of these movies, somebody has to say "omg worst character evar!"


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 11:43 am
 

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The ackbar quote is my main point... I dont "worse character" judge.


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 1:29 pm
 
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Post Posted: December 18th 2017 1:33 pm
 
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Admiral Holdo is definitely up there for worst characters in the saga thanks to some shitty writing but also some surprising awful acting by Laura Dern. That said, she also has the poor fortune of landing in the worst written act in SW history. The entire mutiny plot belongs in the middle of a bad season of 24. It required a leader in a coma, key characters not talking to one another and arbitrarily not trusting each other, and bad guys content to let the good guys run out of gas. You literally can't make up shit more ridiculous than that. Other than packing in more tired tropes than I thought humanly possible, I don't know what that 2nd act accomplished.


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 1:42 pm
 
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I’m pretty sure that if Johnson had their time again, it would have been Leia who made that sacrifice. As it stands, it’s a poorly conceived plot point. Are we to assume that the technique of flying a ship at light speed would work against any super weapon e.g Death Star, Starkiller? If only they’d known...


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 2:07 pm
 
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I think I finally understand how prequel haters felt about people like me who didn’t mind the prequels – I feel myself getting frustrated when I read rave reviews about this movie now.

Having digested the film a bit more, there are some more points that are bothering me:

-The majority of Resistance/Rebel deaths could have been averted if Admiral Holdo had just told Poe that she had a plan. She didn’t even need to tell him what the plan was, just that there was a plan. The mark of a good leader is managing the people you lead, and she failed at that spectacularly.

-I think this is the first time that I’ve ever seen a character arc do a 180. Kylo Ren didn’t have a character arc, he had a character circle. He ended the movie at the exact same place that he began – as an evil, one-dimensional and irredeemable villain. Right up to the end of the Rey/Kylo vs. Praetorian Guard fight, I had such hopes for Kylo – they basically set him up as a much more sympathetic character than I was expecting. If you really need to double down on evil Kylo, then how innovative and risk-taking would it have been if, unlike in ESTB, Rey had accepted his outstretched hand to join her? Nope, can’t give Rey any actual character development, can we?

-Luke Skywalker. Again, I do not understand how so many people seem fine with how they portrayed Luke in this film. I’m going to quote another post I saw on this that articulates my feelings a lot better than I can do:

“the original Star Wars films were about victorious hope, the unity that binds us all and overcoming the evil inside yourself. Luke Skywalker is the embodiment of a character archetype that is as old as storytelling itself. He rises from nothing, pursues knowledge and enlightenment, overcomes despair, becomes a saviour and, through courage and determination, redeems the sins of the ones who came before him. His purpose as a character and as an icon is to personify everything a person should hope to become.

In the Last Jedi, Luke Skywalker contemplates murdering his sister’s and best friend’s son in his sleep, cries in a cave for a few decades while the world around him crumbles, gets lectured by a teenager about responsibility and then dies nonsensically. Knowing that, go look at every other plot point and twist in this movie. This film’s sole purpose isn’t to push things forward or build upon anything. It is reckless subversion for the sake of subversion. It is deconstruction with no meaning or purpose. It is a cynically assembled soapbox, made by people so arrogant and unappreciative that they would stand atop the legacy of one of film’s most quintessential stories just to make a short-sighted point about “leaving the past behind” while tossing some hamfisted political notes at the captive audience.”


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 3:20 pm
 
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Post Posted: December 18th 2017 8:45 pm
 
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Post Posted: December 18th 2017 8:49 pm
 
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Mike_Droideka- What makes you think that DJ knew of Holdo's plan?


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 9:21 pm
 
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DJ over hears the Poe / Finn exchange. Finn even tries to cover it up.


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Thanks SI.
I'm going to go see the film again this weekend with some friends, who are yet to see it

I thought LFL/Disney said that they wanted to make these new films, for the fans.
Rian Johnson, is saying that he didn't write this movie for the fans.
So, which is it?


Post Posted: December 18th 2017 10:50 pm
 
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Saw it again tonight. I did like it better, for sure. Review is pretty simple:

Act 1: Great start!
Act 2: Complete clusterfuck.
Act 3: Epic.

All in all, I'll take it, I guess. I'll bump it up a notch in my series rankings, somewhere closer to the TFA, Rogue One grouping, ahead of the AOTC/TPM grouping. Rian Johnson had a lot of great ideas and nice themes. He beat a couple to death, and he derailed the middle act to introduce some of them. But the final act is fantastic and a visual treat.


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 1:11 am
 
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I’ve been trying to think what the experience of watching TLJ reminded me of, and I now remember. It felt exactly like watching Alien Resurection for the first time... where I didn’t know wether to laugh or cry... and where I wasn’t sure if I was watching something serious or something that was meant as a parody. It looked great, but boy was it missing somethimg fundamental.


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 3:04 am
 

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There was so much potential for lore building in this movie. He's at the first jedi temple ffs. More of how Luke is feeling could and should have been explained. He says there's incredible darkness in Ben, yet we see him legit refuse to kill his mother. At least delve deeper into this darkness. Luke could turn Vader, what is it about Ren that can't be? We got no info.

I wouldn't have minded if we got massive changes and it seemed like the film wanted to flip things on its head, but only did so half way and the writing just didn't do it. Ultimately this should have been Luke going full on grey jedi. Also, refusing to give us an answer on snoke is nonsense.

http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/17/star-wa ... heories/2/


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 5:19 am
 
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I always hate it when people write bad things about stuff I love, now I'm going to do it myself...

When I left the theater, I felt like, multiply the Boba Fett in the Sarlacc Pit scene a thousand times.

Rian Johnson's movie Looper was excellent and the fact that Disney gave him a go-ahead to write an all new Star Wars Trilogy - even before anyone saw his Last Jedi - made me expect so much of this! Bummer...

To me, the best thing in Star Wars are the villains, the Dark Side. The First Order? A bunch of doucebags... Spaceballs!! (With one exception, Snoke)

I think we did have a potentially great Villain with Snoke, so much power and wisdom, so mysterious. I red so many great theories about him (Plagueis, or a Force Drainer, ...) , they've build up something, you feel a great climax coming and then they screw it up completely! Star Wars in good hands? LOL! At least The Force Awakens was a good copy... This movie didn't feel that Dark at all.

What the hell is episode 9 going to be about? The Galaxy looks so small now? The Rebellion / First Order have like 5 ships left, We've got two force wielding rookies, no decent Villain, I honestly don't know what to look forward to. What's the point of introducing a new and powerfull villain in the next movie (which it needs) if we won't be able to enjoy him long, so why love him.

If I would have written The Last Jedi, I would have Luke coming in to save the day when Snoke is about to destroy Rey in his Throne Room, Snoke defeats Luke - after the most epic lightsaber battle in history, Rey escapes, Snoke drains the life out of Luke and is young again, no longer deformed - maybe someone we know. Kylo turns to the Light and teams up with Rey, and they both face Snoke in the final film.

Now I think about it, the best things in this movie are the Porgs... and that drunken little guy in the Casino! I hope I feel different about it in a few days...


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 7:58 am
 
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Post Posted: December 19th 2017 8:53 am
 
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Post Posted: December 19th 2017 10:22 am
 
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Post Posted: December 19th 2017 1:58 pm
 
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Post Posted: December 19th 2017 3:51 pm
 

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If im neglecting my children, its because im busting my ass to provide shelter and such... Im not convinced Han needed to be out there making a buck shipping for gangsters...


Post Posted: December 19th 2017 10:27 pm
 
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I'm warming to it after being left a bit cold initially and I've still only seen it once. But a similar situation occurred with AOTC for me where I thought it was the worst Star Wars I'd seen and it's now - will ya look at that - my favorite episode.

If Episode 9 has a big role for the Canto Bight youth then my most major issue with the film, its ending, will be nullified. The idea of setting up a separate story (for that reported Johnson-led, new trilogy perhaps?) through such an ending in a middle film struck me as quite odd and a serious breaking of the Star Wars mold. Eh, but maybe that's the point and I'm just clinging desperately to the past, expectations, etc.

And, oh man, did I want to see Hayden Christensen and a CG-recreated Alex Guinness show up as a Force ghosts. That would have been the icing on the fucking cake! :bouncin:


Post Posted: December 20th 2017 12:16 pm
 
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Has there been any explanation in any of the non-movie materials as to why Anakin's ghost hasn't appeared before Kylo?


Post Posted: December 20th 2017 1:07 pm
 
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Post Posted: December 20th 2017 3:43 pm
 
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It’s officially divisive... ;)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42424445#


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