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Post Posted: March 4th 2018 10:41 pm
 
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Doctor When wrote:
That was really good stuff. Loved it...


So if Disney is to blame for the faults of the ST, shouldn't they also be given the credit for Rebels' strong storytelling?


Post Posted: March 5th 2018 8:35 am
 
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CoGro. You are SO RIGHT! We were talking about that this weekend. How on earth can we get such awesome animated stories and such drek on the big screen?
Is it because TV gives you much more time to tell a story?
Less cooks in the kitchen?
Less pressure to create something so basic that the entire world will want to watch?
How can the same story group be doing both with such different results?

Maybe they just need to let Filoni direct the films. But I guess they are keeping him busy with ... what exactly? Star Wars: Resistance?


Post Posted: March 5th 2018 10:01 am
 
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The point is that the folks at Disney aren't the ones responsible for content here: it's the people at Lucasfilm.

So, if you didn't like TFA or TLJ or RO, blame Lawrie Kasdan, JJ Abrams, Michael Arndt, Tony Gilroy, Gareth Edwards, Gary Whitta, Rian Johnson, Carrie Beck, Kiri Hart, Pablo Hidalgo, Kathy Kennedy...hell, even blame George Lucas since his fingerprints are apparently all over the story of the ST. He's even the reason a Han Solo movie exists.

Good content comes from good creatives, and clearly Disney/Kathy isn't diluting or polluting what the show runners at Rebels are putting out. What Dave Filoni is doing creatively is striking a chord with the Star Wars fanbase and even though the show doesn't exactly light up the network, Disney let Lucasfilm make the series they wanted and end it on their terms.

This silly narrative that the mouse is somehow responsible for this new Disney-fied version of Star Wars is tired. If you want to blame Disney for anything, blame them for the awful one-sheets they insist on putting out for all of their films.

For the record, I would be all-for a Filoni-led story group, and if Kathy is smart she should give him the job. I think it's clear that he should be the Kevin Feige of the Star Wars universe. Let Kathy be the executive producer and business head, but she isn't the creative engine here. I have never been a big believer in storytelling by committee since creative vision isn't really a democratic process. Not to mention the folks who are part of the story group today aren't really storytellers: they're Star Wars encyclopedias. Kiri Hart had done nothing but work in bit roles at LFL before becoming head of story, same for Carrie Beck and Pablo was the guy who answered fan questions submitted to Star Wars Insider for hell's sake.


Post Posted: March 5th 2018 12:15 pm
 
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Doctor When wrote:
That was really good stuff. Loved it...

CoGro wrote:
So if Disney is to blame for the faults of the ST, shouldn't they also be given the credit for Rebels' strong storytelling?


Sure. Plaudits to Disney for Rebels... but the new films are still awful in my opinion. I’m much more bothered about liking the films than I am a cartoon, comic, game or other. It’s a shame that, again in my opinion, Rebels channels more of what makes Star Wars ‘Star Wars’ than the new films. A shame for me, and many others it seems.

Whether the blame should lie with Disney, Kennedy or the individual filmmaker is largely determined by
1) whether one thinks the new films are poor.
2) what aspects of the films one considers to be sub par. I’m long enough in the tooth, and pragmatic enough, to understand that there are many talented people involved in the making of these films, so consequently I tend to see the root cause of failure not in the ‘creatives’ per se, but in the underlying model of production line that seems to favour a release date over development.

Even some of the more enthusiastic fans seem to agree that the sequels don’t appear that joined up, thematically/narratively, to the previous films... let alone themselves...

On a separate note... I’ve had the pleasure of speaking to Filoni re. TCW/Rebels, and without doubt he seems to have a much deeper and richer understanding of Star Wars, and the underlying philosophy behind it (creatively and conceptually), than anyone else involved. I think he’d make a great live action film.


Post Posted: March 5th 2018 10:27 pm
 
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CoGro wrote:
I have never been a big believer in storytelling by committee since creative vision isn't really a democratic process. Not to mention the folks who are part of the story group today aren't really storytellers: they're Star Wars encyclopedias. Kiri Hart had done nothing but work in bit roles at LFL before becoming head of story, same for Carrie Beck and Pablo was the guy who answered fan questions submitted to Star Wars Insider for hell's sake.


It's doesn't seem like the films are "by committee." The TFA was driven by Abrams and Kasdan. TLJ was all Johnson. And, Rogue One was Edward's until Gilory was asked to step-in

It seems that the story group is only there to give background, point-out continuity issues (if any), and generally, provide feedback on some story ideas. It's really up to the the auteurs of the specific films to do their own thing. That is, until Kennedy senses that the project is going off the rails.

It does appear that Lucas' suggestions to Disney are being followed more closely than it initially appeared. But, it's up to the individual filmmakers to flesh-out his ideas and add to the quality of SW mythology. So, if you have specific problems - you should probably blame the filmmaker.

To varying degrees, I have issues with all three Disney films. But, I respect Kennedy's decision to give almost free reign to the movie's directors. Regardless of the end result, that's how it should be.


Post Posted: March 5th 2018 10:51 pm
 
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The "final" episodes are available on the Disney XD site. As expected, they're compelling to the very end.

The prologue makes my mind race with possible stories. I don't look forward to Bandersnatch copying and pasting a certain theory for the next several seasons. But, it's a small price to pay. Especially, if I get to hear Hamill voicing Skywalker in his prime.

It's funny how...
Filoni and company choose the "all of the above" approach to preserving continuity. If there are no Jedi during the OT, you can either a) kill-off your Jedi character, b) have your Force-wielder disavow the Jedi Order, or c) come-up with a neat trick. They went "a)" with Kanan, kept "b)" with Ahoska (after faking "a)"), and pulled a "c)" with Ezra. I didn't a see either the "b" or "c)" coming - well done.

Hopefully, Ezra will meet a worthy end when his time does come. I can't image that his character would travel space and time only to get sabered by Han and Leia's psycho kid. (Wait, what if Bandy's right? :wow: )

Yes, Disney - you have my money for your streaming service if that's where I need to go next.


Post Posted: March 6th 2018 7:11 am
 
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Looking forward to watching these episodes later today. Of course, my Ezra theory could be way off base. :o

Here's the post-screening Q&A. I haven't watched it yet:


Post Posted: March 6th 2018 11:31 am
 
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Meh. Very anti-climactic. Lots of shooting and a lack of genuine resolution. The voice-over coda was strange, and felt tacked on. But I guess we have been set up for a post-ROJ show now.

... and Yes. Bander IS right! ;-)


Post Posted: March 6th 2018 11:57 am
 
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Wonderful conclusion! All of it!

That coda gave me a lump in my throat.

And how about Mc-fucking-Diarmid, ladies and gentlemen?! :chewbacca:


Post Posted: March 6th 2018 1:09 pm
 
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Circa 30 mins into that Q&A Filoni nails it, and I think, it’s what’s missing from the new films. I didn’t mind the last episode of Rebels, but I agree that it left a lot unresolved (for me anyway). I think it would have been a stronger resolution if the protagonists had a similar fate to those from Rogue One.


Post Posted: March 6th 2018 2:33 pm
 

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which bander theory?


Post Posted: March 6th 2018 3:04 pm
 
Bush Pilot
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Ezra is Snoke.

It's entirely plausible given how open-ended the story is. Something horrible would have to happen to Ezra given how he was able to resist the darkness of Palpatine's seduction.


Post Posted: March 6th 2018 4:31 pm
 
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My theory is that Thrawn will end up being the first Supreme Commander of the First Order.


Post Posted: March 6th 2018 5:04 pm
 
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I thought it was a really good episode, but a fairly anti-climactic series finale.

Lots of pew pew gunfighting and that got tired. I felt like I was watching the same scene for 1.5 hours with character moments sprinkled in between. I would have liked for the mission to feel secondary to those character beats. One of my favourite details was that they have now officially retconned Rex to be this guy at the battle of Endor.

The Emperor/Ezra scene was interesting enough, with a typically great performance from Ian, but what was the point of it? What was the Emperor's plan there? Was it to take Ezra out of the picture? And how do these portals work exactly? In the previous episode they only really seemed accessible in this netherworld of the Force but here it was just a one-off doorway, coded specifically to be a window into Ezra's past. How did they excavate the portal from the temple ruins? That they did feels like a cheapening of Ezra's victory from the previous episode. And isn't Ezra's rejection of Palpatine's offer to rejoin his family the EXACT same character moment he had in the last episode? He proved he could let go of the past when he let Kanan die, so why did he have to go through the same trial again, one episode later?

It also felt strange that Thrawn was part of this sequence, at least in bringing Ezra to the Emperor, since Thrawn represents the grounded militaristic and very non-spiritual aspect to the Empire. We had a far better intermediary in the last episode with the priest-like servant to Palpatine. Just some odd choices here.

I love so much about Thrawn in this series but let's face it: he never had a meaningful victory and that really made him feel more like a typical, albeit more clever, moustache-twirling antagonist. Are we meant to believe that both he and Ezra survived travelling through hyperspace with the windows blown out of the Star Destroyer bridge? Instead of getting wrapped up in the climax for these two characters, that's what I was thinking about.

Regarding the voiceover, I agree it felt awkward and out of place for the series. Definitely would have been better to show rather than tell. It felt like a strange Lord of the Rings-style epilogue.


Post Posted: March 6th 2018 6:28 pm
 
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Filoni explained Palpatine's involvement as using Ezra to get a hook into the world between worlds. Palpatine himself couldn't enter but only peer into the void.


Post Posted: March 6th 2018 6:50 pm
 
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Complaining about too much war in Star Wars. :roll:

How did you guys stand all that laser exchange in TCW?


Post Posted: March 6th 2018 7:14 pm
 

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That felt like a satisfactory conclusion to the series, but the endings implication are what really did it for me.
Not sure if it was the version I watched, but the quality of the animation in the last few scenes, seemed almost photorealistic.


Post Posted: March 7th 2018 6:51 am
 
OBGYN
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I thought this was a really cool way to wrap up this particular series, but it didn't feel so much like an ending, but rather a segue.
Jumping to post-
Endor
and setting sights on a new quest to
find Ezra
could very easily lead us into Star Wars: Resistance, or whatever is next.


Post Posted: March 7th 2018 9:44 am
 
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CoGro, I'm pretty much in agreement with you on all you say above.

And yeah. Way too much shooting. War is not just guns, and it is better with battles of the minds and shifting allegiances. Plus we have lightsabers and "magic" to fight with too, so all the guns were just very tedious. ;-)


Post Posted: March 7th 2018 5:42 pm
 

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Great conclusion to the series!

With all Filoni's talk of reading/studying Tolkien I had a feeling he was gonna lead a character towards a Gandalf-like persona and I think Ahsoka was the perfect choice. I don't think she's a Grey Jedi, nor believe they will they go in this direction.

I wonder how long it was after the Battle of Endor that she showed up on Lothal to pick up Sabine - and if Ahsoka has already met Luke and Leia by this point in time?

I will say this, with all the talk of Filoni running Lucasfilm, I rather see him in a Chief Creative Officer position as opposed to the CEO.
KK can keep that position, just let Dave do his thing from the top down - he gets it for what it is - the craft, themes and tones of the franchise.
Making him a manager as well as a creator would hinder him from concentrating on the storytelling.


Post Posted: March 8th 2018 9:35 am
 
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Make Dave Filoni the Kevin Feige of Star Wars. Now.


Post Posted: March 8th 2018 7:21 pm
 
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Looks like it is gonna be Favreau...


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