Stormtroopers and Clonetroopers in the Original Trilogy

[TK432]

The stormtrooper will prolly stay the same, even in future releases.

It reinforces what george said about recruits being put in with left over clones.
(notice how the stormtroopers are not all the same height)

[Jason@Star-Wars.net]

I believe George Lucas said something along the line that rich cats get their cousin Louie cloned and that’s why they aren’t so great and that’s why there are variants in height, weight, and accuracy. I guess it's the Star Wars Galaxy equivalent of having gold rims on your car.

-Jason

[Vanda]

It reinforces what george said about recruits being put in with left over clones.

When the hell did George say that?? The only quote I've ever heard on the subject from George is that Jango's "head bumping" trait was cloned into all the stormtroopers. Hence, all the stormtroopers = clones of Jango.

I don't see why that's not clear.

[Vanda]

read the novelization of AOTC

I will not accept the novelization (EU) as proof of anything.

As was pointed out to me, George has also said that not all clones are clones of Jango - even though he also said that they were all clones of Jango. So whatever. I guess it's left up to viewer interpretation. I tend to agree with Pabs: the only thing the different heights and voices proof conclusively is that the triologies were filmed 20 years apart.

[Benovite]

The issue of stormtrooper height is rather ridiculous to me. First of all unless you exam a picture like the one above or the movies themselves, you're not supposed to notice shit like that. Suspension of disbelief, etc. Not microscopic analysis of every frame or picture. But that's the way Star Wars fans are so I can't knock anybody.

Second, being a firm believer that ALL stormtroopers are clones(hence the masks that remove identity since they all essentially possess a single identity having originated from one man), who's to say all the clones are the same age? For shits and giggles, the pic above could show clones as young as 12 or 13 all the way up to their 20's, 30's or even 40's. That could account for a difference in height. Just because they're clones, doesn't mean they're all the same age. I could believe that the Empire would shove young clones out the door and into armor if huge numbers of troops are needed. It's done elsewhere in the world, could easily happen in Star Wars.

Lastly, even in that pic from ANH which was a cheap movie to make by comparison, you notice there's a certain height limit to the stormtroopers. In other words you don't see any tall basketball-height troopers.

[Zion]

yay! an EU/cannon debate.

[Jason@Star-Wars.net]

The issue of stormtrooper height is rather ridiculous to me. First of all unless you exam a picture like the one above or the movies themselves, you're not supposed to notice shit like that. Suspension of disbelief, etc. Not microscopic analysis of every frame or picture. But that's the way Star Wars fans are so I can't knock anybody.

Second, being a firm believer that ALL stormtroopers are clones(hence the masks that remove identity since they all essentially possess a single identity having originated from one man), who's to say all the clones are the same age? For shits and giggles, the pic above could show clones as young as 12 or 13 all the way up to their 20's, 30's or even 40's. That could account for a difference in height. Just because they're clones, doesn't mean they're all the same age. I could believe that the Empire would shove young clones out the door and into armor if huge numbers of troops are needed. It's done elsewhere in the world, could easily happen in Star Wars.

Lastly, even in that pic from ANH which was a cheap movie to make by comparison, you notice there's a certain height limit to the stormtroopers. In other words you don't see any tall basketball-height troopers.

If Lucas won't let Han Solo kill Greedo when Greedo has Han at gun point, he's not going let Luke Skywalker and the gang kill 12 yearold Stormtroopers. I think you have a good point though. I wouldn't count on it being explained in the films though, so it doesnt matter.

-Jason

[Vanda]

read the novelization of AOTC

I will not accept the novelization (EU) as proof of anything.

Films, scripts, novelizations and radio dramas are all proof.

Things are taken out of film scripts for a reason. Sometimes it's time. Sometimes it's because the scene doesn't work. Sometimes because stuff is rewritten in a better way.

Though of course I can't prove this, George probably realized that if he wanted the Stormies of the OT to be clones of Jango (20 years later (read 40 years later due to growth acceleration)), he'd have to remove the line about needing a new sample from the host every now and then.

But even if that's not the reason why the line was removed, the simple fact remains that that line was not in the movie. So it is not proof for anything.

[Palpy]

Well, George DID say stormies were clones way back in 1978

[jamieiso]

I am sure I read one of those Star Wars short stories novels a few years back that had a normal young guy recruited into the Empire as a Stormtrooper.

[VT-16]

Boba yes, Stormies no.

[Call_Me_Perrin]

I am sure that if they wanted to continue to clone Jango, the Geonosians would have stocked up on his genetic material.

Wouldn't that be Kaminoians, not Geonosians?

[Chainsaw_Ash]

All right. Listen. If the stormtroopers are all clones, what's the point of a fucking Imperial Academy?

[nrsv]

The clones are made "programed" to follow orders. Not to make leadership decisions.

[TiniTinyTony]

No one wants a 'docile' leader. They want a leader with a brain that is controllable, and also expendable. Plus we don't know the fate of Kamino. We know that supposively that the clones came from other sources, so that means they could come from alternate locations -- locations with the facilities to make only a few clones at a time, and not thousands and thousands.

Remember it takes 10 years to have a fully mature clone. In the meantime, why not hire a few people that want to fight for the Empire, since the rebels are killing all them off anyway?

[Palpy]

All right. Listen. If the stormtroopers are all clones, what's the point of a fucking Imperial Academy?

Pilots...lots of 'em !

[pjvader]

All right. Listen. If the stormtroopers are all clones, what's the point of a fucking Imperial Academy?

the clones still have to be taught, u can see them in class in AOTC
the last i heard lucas chime in on this subject was that they tried droids, they didnt work out, they tried clone armies they didnt work out, and by the time of the OT they were using recriuts, but hey georges mind changes more than something that changes alot! as is visble in any making of.... for any of the OT/PT!

[Mentasm]

This is my first post, and I must admit I'm somewhat confused by the people that think when you clone someone you also clone their accent! There's no reason any of the Stormtroopers should have their same voice, and this is something that annoyed me about AOTC. At least in that episode it could be explained by Jango's presence, but since he's been dead for some time come the OT it makes no sense for the troopers to have Kiwi accents...

[TK432]

I read it somewhere, and i know it was official, but of course I can’t prove it.

But it makes perfect since to mix recruits in with the clones. Easier to draft people in to the empire then let the rebels get all the fighters.

And wasn’t the academy Luke was talking about the imperial academy?
Why would they only draft pilots?

[Mentasm]

This is my first post, and I must admit I'm somewhat confused by the people that think when you clone someone you also clone their accent!

cause its an exact replica? if a clone of jango started talking german or canadian that would be fucked up too, no matter what happens not everyone will be pleased and not everything will be explained

Um, German and Canadian (or English as it's more commonly known) are two different languages. If I made two clones and raised them in separate parts of the same country, odds are that they would have different accents even though they speak the same language. Their voices would be the same, but their accents would not!

[pjvader]

If I made two clones and raised them in separate parts of the same country, odds are that they would have different accents even though they speak the same language. Their voices would be the same, but their accents would not!

yes that makes sense now! sorry

dont think they seperate them though, they just train them on kamino then ship them off 2 battle!

must sound weird on the battlefield as everyone is shouting in the same voice

[TiniTinyTony]

No one wants a 'docile' leader. They want a leader with a brain that is controllable, and also expendable.

Did you completely misread what I had said?

Yes I believe I did, sorry.

[Raz Zaphon]

my memory is not working right now, could you remind me what the "head bumping" trait thing is all about? i remember it being something that George mentions in the AotC commentary.. but i cant remember what he says. what "head bumping trait" is he referring to?

There's this blooper in ANH where a stormtrooper accidently bumps his head on the top of a door way. As a joke George got Tem to do the same thing as a way of explaining it.

[Silence]

What if Episode III answers this question. What if Kamino gets destroyed.

I fucking love What ifs

[dylan]

Randomness ensues:

I have, in my plethora of weird SW stuff, the Empire Strikes Back Official Poster Monthly Issue #2. The Topic is The Forces of the Empire. Far from cannon, it has a rundown on the Imperial Stormtroopers. Thought I'd share an insight as to what publishers were told in 1980:

IMPERIAL STORMTROOPERS
Feared throughout the galaxy, the Imperial Stormtroopers are the property of the Empire. They wear a white eggshell armored spacesuit made of super lightweight impervium. The armor includes battery box and control devices, and snaps together to form an anti-laser cocoon. Indirect hits reflect off the surface, though there can be no protection against a straight shot. The helmet features automatic polarized lenses and voice-activated transceiver. The belts include specialized survival equipment, concentrated rations, emergencey batteries and the comlink.

Imperial Stormtroopers live in a totally disciplined militaristic world in which obedience is paramount and the Empire unquestioned. Their greatest ambition is to be promoted to squad leader or, if they are truly marked by destiny, to the elite Imperial Guards who act as the personal forces of the real leaders of the Empire.

An Imperial Stormtrooper, then, is a single-minded, thoroughly trained and totally obedient soldier.

No mention of clones, but the lifestyle sounds like what we see the clones going through. But then again, it sounds a lot like a Jedi now, doesn't it?

[Countdooku]

The stormtrooper will prolly stay the same, even in future releases.

It reinforces what george said about recruits being put in with left over clones.
(notice how the stormtroopers are not all the same height)

Yeah but I havent heard Lucas say something like that all.The right thing is the clones/stormtroppers are the same,remeber what Obi-Wan was told in EPII "It would take a lifetime to grow a fullgrown clone" or something like that,and my belive is that under the clone wars through epIII the cloners became more advance between times,the orginal troppers uniforms will be in EPIII if u check at the ROTS secetion on www.starwars.com u will se for yourself.

[Dogg Thang]

I would reckon there is a good chance the Stormtroopers aren't all clones (as recruits would be far cheaper than raising clones). Having said that, if you're looking for ways to explain away the height differences, environments (gravity etc) and diet differences would account for differences in height and build. If the clones were raised on different planets you could well get differences even with the same genetic structures.

But like I said recruits would be cheaper. Ability would be less important to keep control of the Empire than it would have been during the Clone Wars and establishing the Empire. By ANH, the Stormtroopers would be more needed as a visual presence rather than actual combat troops (which might explain why the Stormtroopers aren't all that good).

Just my opinion.

Dogg.

[Ziggy]

Does it really matter?

Clones or recruits, if it's not directly stated in the OT anyone can believe what they want.


I never understood this circular argument.

[SnakePlisken]

Aren't you a little short to be a stormtrooper?

Stormtroopers have always been clones, that quote is a clue from ANH. Luke is a 'little short' because Stormtroopers are all the same height, ie clones.

[Dogg Thang]

Except we have already seen that they aren't all the same height. That doesn't mean they aren't clones but all Stromtroopers are not the same height. Until Lucas gets ILM to fix that (give him time), that's the way it is.

Does it matter? Nah, not really. I have no issue one way or another if they are clones are not. But like all of the details in Star Wars, it's just interesting and being interested in Star Wars is why we are here. Does anything in Star Wars really matter?

Dogg.

[Ziggy]

Don't take me the wrong way. I just don't think either side is going to convince the other.


Both sides make good points. I think it all boils down to whether you like the EU or not.

Those that do like it look for reasons why Stormies are not all clones. Those that don't look for reasons why they are.

It's the same old tired EU debate dressed up in different clothing, and that's what get's old.

[TheSessler]

It's the same old tired EU debate dressed up in different clothing, and that's what get's old.

Quite so, thats it exactly.

[SI]

I knew I was avoiding this thread for a reason....