Anakin Appointed To The Jedi Council

[foxbatkllr]

The new Set Diary "The Jedi Council Puzzle" focuses on the makeup of the Jedi Council in Episode 3. According to the article this is how it will be:

Plo Koon
Mace Windu
Yoda
Ki-Adi-Mundi
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Agen Kolar
a new appointee
Ongree Jedi Master (Pablo Jill's species)
Saesee Tiin
Kit Fisto
TBD
Stass Allie

The article focuses on the TBD character, but makes no mention of the "new appointee." My speculation is that perhaps Anakin is appointed to the Council but Obi-Wan disagrees and this begins the real split between the two. What do you think? Who else could the "new appointee" be? If it was an insignificant character don't you think the article would've focused on it? I could just be overanalyzing, but the way it focuses on the ongree jedi master and the TBD character but just off-hand mentions a "new appointee" makes me think its a significant character.

Edit: What if, somehow, Palpatine uses his power as Chancellor to appoint Anakin to the Council?

[Vanda]

I'm fairly certain that, when Obi-Wan was revealed as a Council member in III, people said "wait a minute, I thought he never made Master?" Then other said "you don't have to be a Master to be on the Council - look at Ki-Adi." Someone asked Pablo about this in the Q&A and he said that Ki-Adi's Knighthood or Masterhood might have changed since the past if a certain line is left in the movie. That leads me to believe that you do, indeed, have to be a Master to be on the Council.

And we know Anakin is not a Master.


EDIT:

This is the Q&A response that I refer to:

Another question - Since Obi-Wan is on the Council in Ep III, is it safe to say he is a Jedi Master? Or is he like Ki-Adi-Mundi and on the Council as a Knight?

No, he's a Master. And it looks like we may have to ignore or retcon some of Ki-Adi-Mundi's backstory as the only Knight on the Council, if some of the Ep III dialogue stays to the final cut.


EDIT 2: I've just realized that Pablo said "only" Knight on the Council - which could mean that the new appointee is only a Knight too. So I guess I've proved nothing. :p

Regardless, I really really doubt that Anakin is on the Council. I remember a set diary that talked about a shot where "Anakin enters the Council." I don't think they'd show him showing up to the Council for a council scene... kinda seems like it would slow down the pace, and you know how much George hates that. Also, if Obi-Wan and Anakin were on the Council together, the Council scenes would be with random Jedi standing in the middle rather than Anakin, whom the movie is about. And remember, Pablo stated that Anakin is a Knight that's frustrated that he hasn't been recognized as a Master. I think that frustration wouldn't be as bad if he had been appointed to the Council.

[Ziggy]

I think the EU has spent way to much time distinguishing between Knights and Masters.

None of that junk has made it into the films, so I woulldn't be surprised if Anakin is indeed appointed to the council in episode 3.

[Vanda]

Also notice the "mysterious" disappearance of Shaak Ti from the Council.

Some of you may point to Pablo's comment on this subject:

It is rumored Shaak Ti is murdered at the ahnds of General Grevious. Can you confirm or deny this?

No, that's not what happens. Good idea, though.


Now, I'm certainly not one to disbelieve Pablo. But I think that in this case he may be being literal. If spoilers are to be believed, Shaak Ti does not die at the HANDS of Grievous, but a lightsaber in his hands. Possibly her own lightsaber. I wouldn't even think this normally, but why would he add "Good idea, though."? I think it was kind of a knowing wink. That would certainly explain the "new appointee," as they would have had to have been appointed since the start of the film.

[foxbatkllr]

Why would Pablo be so cryptic about the "new appointee" unless it was someone important?

[Vanda]

One more thing to add to the Anakin/Council thing, I don't think it really makes sense because it doesn't make Anakin upset like it needs to. We know that Palpatine is able to turn him by making him hate the Jedi. He hates the Jedi because they're holding him back. He said as much in AOTC, and we know that in ROTS he's upset that he's not a Master, so they're still holding him back in his mind. We've heard that Anakin is the rockstar poster boy of the Clone Wars, and that concerns that Jedi. Why would they feed his ego by appointing him to the Council? And if they did, what would Anakin have to be upset about for Palpatine to feed off of?

[Vanda]

Why would Pablo be so cryptic about the "new appointee" unless it was someone important?

...because it doesn't have a name yet?

[foxbatkllr]

One more thing to add to the Anakin/Council thing, I don't think it really makes sense because it doesn't make Anakin upset like it needs to. We know that Palpatine is able to turn him by making him hate the Jedi. He hates the Jedi because they're holding him back. He said as much in AOTC, and we know that in ROTS he's upset that he's not a Master, so they're still holding him back in his mind. We've heard that Anakin is the rockstar poster boy of the Clone Wars, and that concerns that Jedi. Why would they feed his ego by appointing him to the Council? And if they did, what would Anakin have to be upset about for Palpatine to feed off of?

That remains to be the biggest hole in my theory. However, if Palpatine appointed Anakin to the Council and there was disagreement on the Council it could still work.

Edit: If its simply a TBD Jedi, then why didn't the article talk about it? The article talks about the other two TBD Jedi but leaves one just as a "new appointee"? I dunno, there's something fishy about it.

Edit2: Check out the webcam. August 28, 16:23:20

[Freak_2006]

I doubt Anakin is on the Council. Did you guys notice that Even Piell is no longer listed? Pablo said he'd be a hologram, and those shots were finished some time ago, but now they don't even list him as being on the Council. They must have gone back and erased poor Piell.

[foxbatkllr]

If you read the article again, the TBD Jedi (the one in the tub seat) is the last one whose identity is unknown. The rest of the Jedi have already been named or at least named by species in the Ongree Jedi's case. That means the new appointee is already known. It's not TBD.

[Vanda]

Well, I obviously can't disprove the theory, and at this point I don't think anyone can. However, it doesn't FEEL right, and I hope that's not where George is going.

[foxbatkllr]

I don't 100% believe my own theory. But it is something to think about and consider. I am concerned that if Anakin were on the Council there would not be enough reason for him to be upset with the Jedi, but on the other hand it would be a nice twist and there could be many other reasons as well.

[Vanda]

Edit: What if, somehow, Palpatine uses his power as Chancellor to appoint Anakin to the Council?

Interesting idea... if that's the case, than it could definitely make sense, especially if the Jedi oppose it but can't really do anything about it. Palpatine could twist it (and really, not much twisting would be required because Anakin's 3/4 of the way there himself) to make Anakin think that the Jedi are afraid of him and his power, which is why they won't promote him. It took me, the Supreme Chancellor, to get you a higher position within the Jedi. They don't seem to want you...

...you could have unlimited power, you know, if you want it...


I still don't think that this is the case, but this is one way that it could work if it was the case.

[Ternian]

I think Anakin is going to have a dummy spit about not being added to the Jedi Council - possibly over this new appointee - why else would a Knighthood be questioned?

[Forcechoke]

Anakin won't be on the council. And that's the problem, at least as far as he's concerned.

[Spider]

Anakin won't be on the council. And that's the problem, at least as far as he's concerned.

You're right, that is one of his concern in RotS. So Anakin is not part of the Jedi Council that's for sure.

Here's another good question:

Whatever happened to Yaddle?

Yeah that would be interesting to know...

She died in one of the book in the Jedi Quest serie. The book is The Shadow Trap

[foxbatkllr]

All we have heard is that Anakin feels he is underappreciated...and even if we had heard he is upset that he won't be promoted to the council, that still doesn't rule out the possibility of Palps promoting him.

[Insert Username]

PH mentions in the set diary that the fact that it's a tub chair means that whatever ends up in that last chair won't be big.
So I doubt it's for Anakin.

And the idea that Anakin would get jealous about not being appointed to the Council seems valid enough but I just don't know that there's going to be time to exploe it properly. I think the fact that Anakin always cracks up about Obi Wan holding him back will have more of an impact when Obi Wan is promoted over him than whoever this new mystery Jedi is.

[Hade]

I've always felt that only Masters should be on the Council.

Anyway, we've lost too many Jedi Council members through EU. That's just awful.

[vanillazinger]

This morning the web cam is showing a shoot of the Jedi Council. Anakin is among them. I'm convinced. Unexpected, this is.

Credit goes to foxbatkillr for piecing it together first.

[Sidious]

My speculation is that perhaps Anakin is appointed to the Council but Obi-Wan disagrees and this begins the real split between the two.

I dont think Anakin will be pointed out.. couse the council may not feel secure enough to put him on the council. He will allso be Papatine's bodyguard so he have to spend a great deal of time with Palpatine when they return from the Clone Wars at the beginning of the film. So no I dont think it wil happen!

This morning the web cam is showing a shoot of the Jedi Council. Anakin is among them. I'm convinced.

Dosnt it really take more to covince you than that? Then you will be surely dissapointed with ROTS if you are so easyly convinced by speculations and images! There could be other reasons to why Hayden was on the webcam in a council scene .. Since there are other scenes with him in the Jedi Council Room.

[vanillazinger]

Dosnt it really take more to covince you than that? Then you will be surely dissapointed with ROTS if you are so easyly convinced by speculations and images! There could be other reasons to why Hayden was on the webcam in a council scene .. Since there are other scenes with him in the Jedi Council Room.

The shooting this morning, coupled with last Saturday's Set Diary, is convincing enough for me. Thanks for your concern, though.

[DQG]

There will probably be a scene after the Coruscant action, where the council has to select a new member to replace Shaak-Ti.

Anakin feels like he should be the one chosen because he's ready, he just offed Dooku, and saved the Chancellor. But the council chooses someone else, and he feels slighted.

Maybe Obi Wan even has the deciding vote and shoots down Anakin.

[Ziggy]

The films have never made us privvy to the inner workings of the council.

I don't get the dissappointment expressed by some of you guys. Anakin being appointed to the council would mean his fall is an even bigger betrayal to the order than Dooku's.

[Artmaul]

[Vanda]

It doesn't make sense for Anakin to be on the Council. He hasn't been a Jedi anywhere near long enough to be considered for the Council.

I don't like this at all.

That's why, if this happens, it really has to be because of Palpatine with the Jedi against it. That further adds a riff between Anakin and the Jedi.

I'm not saying I like it, but if it has to happen it has to happen that way.

[BobTheGoon]

Check the new webdoc. You can see Anakin sitting in a council chair.

Good job, foxbat.

[Lord Seafood]

It makes no sense. What a dumb decision.

[Ziggy]

I still dont understand why some of you are against this.

It give more dramatic weight to Anakin's betrayal of the order. This way he wasn't held back by the order. He's recieved the accolades of his peers, yet he still chooses to join the Sith.

[Insert Username]

He could be sitting in the chair between takes or something. I think Anakin being denied a Council position would add more to his motivation to join Palpatine than being awarded one and betraying the Jedi anway. Maybe that's just me though.

His whole spiel in AotC was "Obi Wan is holding me back!" and now it's going to be "Oh wait, no he's not!"

Doesn't jive with me.

[Ziggy]

If he's not on the council it wont bother me, but I prefer his turn to be motivated by more than his sense of repression.

Anakin in AOTC is petulent and selfish. His motivation changes by ROTS. He's grown up more. He'll be a war hero, and since his mother's death more than a little power-hungry. He'll believe that the jedi have nothing left to offer him, so he joins the sith willingly.

Anakin makes bad choices. Luke, when confronted by similar pressure, makes the right choices.

Sounds dramatic to me.

[Silence]

Well, he's the biggest hero during the clonewars which would warrant a place in the council. But I think it's a strange decision nonetheless. I'd like it more when they keep him out of the council although he being the second Revan.

[vanillazinger]

And if he's on the Council, what is there to be mad at the Jedi for?

My current speculation is that he wants to have his family and remain in the Jedi order. He petitions for forebearance and is refused. That's a much better motivation than not having accolades thrown at him fast enough. Plus, if Palpatine tells him that as a Sith he can keep his family and raise a child on the path of the Force, then (a) he's got a tremendous motivation to become a Sith, and (b) it means that Anakin truly does want his child to have a lightsaber when he's old enough. (Of course, Palpatine would be lying to him about kids. They're a threat to him.)

[The Dark Shape]

It wouldn't shock me if Anakin is constantly frustrated with how slowly things move, now that he's at the top. Decisions take so long to make. And then here comes Palpatine, offering him a chance to move up in the universe and actually make things happen.

[foxbatkllr]

The set diary, in addition to the webcam (they were filming him, it was not between takes), and him sitting in a council chair in the webdoc seem to be pretty good evidence that he'll be on the council.

[Benovite]

If he is actually a member of the council and not just merely sitting in a chair alongside Obi-Wan watching a hologram of the Jedi report in, I think it would be more because the numbers of Jedi are dwindling and it's a case of filling the seats as opposed to actually acknowledging Anakin's heroism and such.

[foxbatkllr]

And what about the set diary? Just who is this "new appointee" if its not Anakin?

[BobTheGoon]

You guys, we have FOOTAGE from the webdoc of Anakin in the chair ACTING! The look he gave wasn't "between takes", its a reaction shot, with Anakin sitting in a COUNCIL CHAIR.

Pull your heads out of your asses.

[foxbatkllr]

And what about the set diary? Just who is this "new appointee" if its not Anakin?

Why does it have to be Anakin? There's thousands of other Jedi it could be.

You're completely missing the point. If it was just an average Jedi why didn't Pablo just name him?? If the Jedi had not yet been decided then why did the article focus on the other two Jedi in question and yet completely ignore this "new appointee." Pablo had two set diaries about the new Jedi Council and neither of them said anything about the new appointee.

[foxbatkllr]

Nothing wrong with educated speculation.

[foxbatkllr]

I think that's where you and a lot of people are going wrong when thinking about this potential scenario. You're assuming the whole council is in agreement and they appoint Anakin to the council based on ordinary merits. The fact is we don't know anything about the circumstances for Anakin's appointment. I speculated that it could be palpatine...there's a number of circumstances that would make this possible. I'm not saying anything about those circumstances. I am only saying that somehow, someway, Anakin is on the council.

[Vanda]

I gotta agree with Bob on this one. Here's a relevant post I made on the OS (with quotes from posters there):

"Yes I was talking about the Webdoc. Obi-Wan is sitting in a Council Chair.

There is nothing but blue screen behind the shot with Anakin, and the shot may not even be related to the one Obi-Wan is in.

That's definitely true. However, they do fit together well. If you think about it, even without the shot of Anakin there, who else would Obi-Wan be shaking his head at and looking upset with in the Council Chambers? I seriously doubt he'd have a spat with Yoda or Mace in there, and the rest of the Council... well, they don't say much.

Also, not only is Obi-Wan NOT looking up (which you'd have to do to look at someone standing in front of you while you're sitting), but he's also looking to his side. Anyone standing in the middle of the floor would be directly in front of any Council member due to their circular seating. That leads me to believe that he is DEFINITELY shaking his head at another Council member.

Furthermore, if you look at Obi-Wan's placement in the council, revealed at the end of the now penultimate webdoc, he's to the right of Yoda, Mace, Plo, and Ki-Adi (the talkies, minus Plo). Yet Obi-Wan is looking to his right. What Council Member could Obi-Wan POSSIBLY be upset with to his right, and that is important enough to be upset at?

It's gotta be Anakin.

Given their pickyness about Qui-Gon, and given that both Yoda and Obi-Wan have major reservations about Anakin, I don't see how that's possible.

...which is why I did not like this theory when I first heard it, and thought it made little to no sense.

They only way would be if Palpatine intervened in Jedi affairs. I might be able to see that. Dunno.

I would agree. I think that this is the ONLY way that it could work. Palpatine says to the Council "hey, Shaak is dead, you need a new Council Member. Anakin has more than proven his worth. He's the rockstar poster boy of the Clone Wars, and he saved my, the Supreme Chancellor's life. He must be the new appointee." The Jedi oppose it for a myriad of reasons, including the ones you listed above. This further creates a rift between the Jedi and Anakin.

Who knows, maybe when the Jedi make a decision to go after Grievous, Anakin volunteers and Obi-Wan says no, he'd do it. That could help drive the stake between them as well."

[Insert Username]

I'll admit that if the Jedi had concerns over Anakin's situation, appointing him to the Council where they could keep a very sharp eye on him and he could learn from all of the other Masters' experience would probably make sense.

[Forcechoke]

Kind of like when they put autistic kids in the same class as the advanced placement class?

Lucas sure is smart.

[foxbatkllr]

Holy shit. I was right about everything?

[Hade]

I agree.

A bad idea.

I'm starting to wonder if there will be anything to Anakin going over to the Dark Side at all.

[foxbatkllr]

It's all about power. Anakin can't have enough. Lucas has said that much. Even being appointed to the Council will not appease Anakin enough...

[Hade]

It's all about power. Anakin can't have enough. Lucas has said that much. Even being appointed to the Council will not appease Anakin enough...

This doesn’t work well from a sympathy angle.

I thought we were supposed to feel for Anakin at the end of this?

All I’m seeing is a power mad despot.


I have to agree with Bacta. Having Anakin not be on the Council after Obi-Wan gets on at least gives Anakin cause...more of a reason to feel as he does.

Sure, he'd be wrong. However, we were never expecting him to be rational about it. That's the whole point.

And no, I'm not expecting this to be the sole reason, but it is definitely good "pile on" material.

[foxbatkllr]

We were never supposed to feel sorry for Anakin's reasons for turning. We were supposed to feel sorry that a young sweet boy could become Darth Vader. It's the entire character arc, folks. Not what happens in a single film.

[Insert Username]

It's basically between Anakin being driven by a jealousy of Obi Wan (cause he's not on the Council) or simply chosing to turn against the Jedi (because he is on the Council) and considering his AotC rants, I think the former is the better alternative.

But then maybe being on the Council makes for better options in other area's of the story?