The "Is Han Solo Wearing A Vest During The Carbon Freeze" Thread

[ThunderPeel2001]

the transfer shows that, as a matter of fact, it really IS simply a shadow across the top of his shoulders, and not a continuity gaffe. Much more clear.

Um, don't think so...



There's no way that's a shadow!

[BobTheGoon]

the transfer shows that, as a matter of fact, it really IS simply a shadow across the top of his shoulders, and not a continuity gaffe. Much more clear.

Um, don't think so...



There's no way that's a shadow!

Um, you're a dumbass.

[dylan]

Um, don't think so...



There's no way that's a shadow!

Think before you post, please:

[ThunderPeel2001]

Think before you post, please

Thanks for the screencaps, but seriously, it's been digitally altered! No amount of "cleaning up" or messing with the contrast could change his shoulders to look like he's wearing his coat (or not, etc). (You know I'm only referring to the first picture, right?)

Looks great though! Thanks for the shots!

yup! but as i am in the UK and region 1 discs arent really supposed to be on sale over here they kinda turn a blind eye, it only all comes into question if i start selling hardcore porn or unclassified horror or bootlegs then they will start paying closer attention! and i could be fined then but as it stands now they dont mind

Ooh, ooh!! Where is you store...? Except you can't tell me know, can you? I live in London and Liverpool (back and forth), anywhere near them?

[Lightivity]

Regarding Hans vest:

http://perso.club-internet.fr/willow/SW_Changes/ESB_Changes_05.htm.

Seems to be a real cont. error to my eyes.

[Ayatollah Krispies]

Regarding Hans vest:

http://perso.club-internet.fr/willow/SW_Changes/ESB_Changes_05.htm.

Seems to be a real cont. error to my eyes.

If the "error" has been addressed in the current version, what exactly is the point of discussing it now?

[Lightivity]

Ayatolla:

Some believe its just a shadow in the original, brightened up in the 2004 version. E g not a cont. error.

[JonLees]

The vest has been corrected then.

If you look at the old caps, there WAS a vest there. it is no shadow, as you can see white on the outer area, above the shoulder.

[ThunderPeel2001]

VEST: http://perso.club-internet.fr/willow/SW ... ges_05.htm

(Just to make sure the "dumbasses" out there can see it with their own eyes - Note the whiteness of Han's shirt coming through on the edge of the screen.)

[MDH]

I still say it's just shadow because of the high contrast lighting style. The "white" parts are just parts that have caught the limited light.

You might as well called it a continuity error inquiring why a good part of his right side of his face is painted black.

And why would anyone think it was a vest in the first place? It can't be the jacket he wears in the film. That has an entirely different collar.

[MDH]

http://perso.club-internet.fr/willow/SW_Changes/ESB_Changes_05_SE.jpg

Now look at his left shoulder. Notice that the pattern of wrinkles is almost identical in both pictures. Also notice that in the picture where it's clear he's only wearing just his white shirt, parts of it are still pitch black, engulfed in shadow.

In fact, try this, in the first picture, put you hand over it, slightly below Han's chin, so you can just see Han from slightly above the shoulders. His white shirt looks quite dark doesn't it?

Also, if you look closely at his left shoulder in the first picture, on the raised part of the rippleds, you can see faintly bright highlights. If he was wearing a vest, it would be completely dark.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Here's how I see it:

http://www.fabaudits.co.uk/johnsstuff/ESB1.jpg

Also, ask yourself this: If it wasn't a flub why did they fix it?

[ThunderPeel2001]

Not sure if this is related, but check the following consversation (printed in this month's Empire magazine) from when Irvin Kershner wore a microphone on the set of ESB.

(On the "carbon freeze" set)

Harrison Ford: Hi

Irvin Kersher: Good morning. I tried to call you yesterday to talk with you about the scene. I was working on it and discovered a lot of things that look very illogical the way it's presently set up.

HF: Yeah, it certainly is. And you've got another problem. I tried to tell the art department about it some weeks ago. My shirt is wrong.

KERSH: That's no problem. They'll take it off you when you go down into the carbon freeze.

HF: But this shirt has no sleeves.

KERSH: Shit.

I have no idea what they were talking about or how it relates to the scene (maybe someone else can shed light on it?), but it caught my eye!

[Tim Lehrbach]

[Wrath Mania]

Amazing how some of you worry about details so much.

[Jedi Master Matt]

Quick math lesson:

1 Han's wearing a vest
1 Palpatine sounds stoned
1 Vader's got a pink saber
3 Shadow lines
------------------------------
= Who the fuck cares!


I love Star Wars; but, this shit is getting out of hand here.

FWIW - it's freakin ridiculous to think that Harrison Ford put on a vest from either 1976 or 1982 OR a vest that didn't exist in 1979 when they were filming this movie. It's an optical illusion. It's from being in a stage full of colored lights and smoke.

Don't make me get Oliver Stone in here. "Back... and to the left"

You all crack me up... I don't mind explosions in space BUT possible continuity errors. NEVER!

[ThunderPeel2001]

there was never a Vest or Jacket on set when that was shot

LOL!!!

If you say so!

[Lightivity]

Sure sure ok. But why tweak it in post for this release then? If it's SOO obviously a shadow, why go to the trouble of digitally painting the shadow out?

[Ayatollah Krispies]

Sure sure ok. But why tweak it in post for this release then? If it's SOO obviously a shadow, why go to the trouble of digitally painting the shadow out?

They didn't "digitally paint it out," fuckface. The color's been corrected throughout the entire flick and now it's apparent in that shot what he was really wearing.

But if you really want to keep believing that wardrobe ran onto set and threw his vest (that he wasn't wearing at any time during the rest of the movie) onto his shoulders just for the sake of screwing up continuity, you just go ahead and follow that dream.

[Jaxon's Dad]

There's no way there's a VEST on in that sequence, because there was never a Vest or Jacket on set when that was shot. Yunno why? Because a) He never WORE a vest in ESB, he wore a jacket and b) he was never WEARING A JACKET during ANY part of that sequence for there to be a continuity error involving him WEARING one at one point and taking it off in the next.

With all due respect, how do you know what was on set at the time this sequence was shot? Were you there? Was your auntie the wardrobe tech on ESB? Fecetiousness aside, the truth is no one can say for sure one way or the other. Personally I think it's a vest because, contrary to Obi-Wan's advice to Luke, I trust my eyes. It looks like a vest. The shoulders are plainly visible. The "shadow" contains shadows. The fact that Han's character only wore a jacket throughout the movie only compounds the weird factor. When I first noticed this, I thought to myself, "Where'd the vest come from...?"

[Sardonicus]

I think the vest needed to be tweaked because it didn't have a white core and it looked too pink.

The short bits I've watched so far look sweet. The guys getting this out there rawk.

[Lightivity]

Hey

Ayatollah-I-just-pissed-in-my-pants-of-sheer-joy-to-be-able-
to-comment-on-boards-to-get-my-pityful-screename-visible,

please go and fuck someone elses face for a change.

In the meantime, others can enjoy debating the meaningless but fun details of Star Wars on a Star Wars board without being interrupted by stupid people who think they have grand insights into the adult, sane inner workings of movie making and continuety.

[jamieiso]

There is a whole world out there people. Go and see!

[ThunderPeel2001]

They didn't "digitally paint it out," fuckface. The color's been corrected throughout the entire flick and now it's apparent in that shot what he was really wearing.

Go to Photoshop, open up the file and twiddle with the brightness and contrast yourself. In fact, why don't all of you do the little test? See for yourselves... IT'S BEEN DIGITALLY FIXED!

[Lightivity]

ThunderPeel: Thanks for the demonstration.

Now Ayatollah, please, with sugar on top, go fuck yourself and let us play.

[Jaxon's Dad]

I'm growing to hate people rejecting any common sense with the "We'll never REALLY know, we weren't there." excuse, because it pardons ridiculous leaps of logic. It's "Ignorance is Bliss." wrapped up in a nice, nifty bow and made to look "fair and intellectual."

Common sense is using your eyes. And it's plain to see that he's wearing a vest, pure and simple. The fact of the matter is that you don't know for sure whether or not there was a vest on set that day because you weren't there. None of us was there. I agree that it defies conventional filmmaking logic that there would be a vest on set for this film, but all pre-DVD versions say that there was a vest on hand and for whatever reason, Harrison Ford was wearing it.

I wish you well.

Thank you Thunderpeel!

[Lightivity]

Well, you know Fatboy, the difference is I try to write stuff about Star Wars, while other ignorant assholes try to write about how fucking great they are. I dont see the latter fitting into Star Wars message boards.

And I do not need nursing by telling me whom or what will eat me alive. What I need is fucking freedom to write about geeky Star Wars stuff (this IS a geeky Star Wars forum, you know) without being told I'm not in touch with reality.

[Ayatollah Krispies]

What I need is fucking freedom to write about geeky Star Wars stuff (this IS a geeky Star Wars forum, you know) without being told I'm not in touch with reality.

Jeez, things really are tough all over, aren't they? Sorry to trample on your freedom, William Wallace. I think you might fit in just fine at TFN, though. Fuckface.

[dylan]

Hey, 'nicle - ain't it funny that you're now, all of a sudden, a Star Wars expert?

[Biggs]

For the record;

1. Shadow not a vest...it's pretty obvious thats all it is

2. Who really gives a shit, you do know Star Wars is a film, it's not based in a real-life setting in anyway shape or form. Fantasy buddy...look it up.

[Jaxon's Dad]

For the record;

1. Shadow not a vest...it's pretty obvious thats all it is

It's not obvious at all. Thunderpeel's photoshop demo a few posts back really adds weight to those who see a vest. If it's not a vest, it's at least a different color of fabric. (Hey Fatboy - maybe that's why Kirshner was so mad that day; The very first "Wardrobe Malfunction!" ) The difference in color is too striking to be merely a shadow. To my eyes, the onset lighting would not create a shadow of this hue.

... you do know Star Wars is a film, it's not based in a real-life setting in anyway shape or form. Fantasy buddy...look it up.

No way, man! Star Wars is based on a true story...

[PTGrievous]

Hey, 'nicle - ain't it funny that you're now, all of a sudden, a Star Wars expert?

I believe him because he knows what he's talking about, he most likely knows where his DVDs came from.

[Tim Lehrbach]

Last be-laboured post on this...I watched the movie, it a shadow...the vest or jacket doesn't have the same seams as the shirt..It's a fucking optical illusion.

It was fixed in the DVD because [b]it looks[b/] like he wearing the jacket or vest..which btw would be completely ass headed of a director to film an entire sequence only to have Ford throw on a vest for what amounts to a 1 second shot.

I'm fucking done with this thread.

[pjvader]

gotta admit i never noticed it until recently! im still in the group that thinks it is shadows as the lighting anfd the machinery above etc. but.... i also read about ford adlibbing the line "i know" so maybe it was shot originally then when they decided to go with it instead of the scripted line they re-shot the "i know" shot at a pick up or later date and forgot about the shirt? discuss! heh heh heh

[ThunderPeel2001]

Fatboy you are SO full of shit. You keep whining on about how stupid people are for not agreeing with you, whereas all anyone else has done is say "well, it looks like (whatever) to me!".

YOU'RE the one who turned this thread into a slanging match simply because people believed things differently to you!

Check out this enlightening post of yours which doesn't have anything to do with the debate but is just about you whining:

It's a fucking retarded "Debate" and a lot of you new kids are highly fucking frustrating to try to talk to.

And then I remember that I never USED to get this frustrated visiting here, and that frustrates me even more.

9/10ths of the people who have joined in the last 2 months really have no fucking clue what they're talking about, and they don't care that they dont, and as a matter of fact, love to insinuate that it's YOUR problem if you DO have a problem with willful ignorance, and furthermore, you should just shut up and let us fling shit all over the place whether you like it or not because it's fun, let us have our nasty, gloopy, fecal fun! Whee!

I've offered reasons and proof why you are wrong about some of the things you've said (eg. the transfer has cleared up the shadow), whereas the best you can do is offer a "quote" (read: paraphrase) from a "book" that you remember reading once, that also happens to conveniently tie in with exactly what you're arguing about.

Let's face facts: It *LOOKS* LIKE A VEST. You even admitted that in your first post when you claimed that the new transfer finally clears up the confusion. In fact it looks SO much like a vest that it's been considered a continuity error in the SW community for YEARS.

And yet anyone who thinks it could be a vest is a nub "NUMBFUCK" according to you. Nice.

Somehow YOU now have definitive proof that it wasn't a continuity error. Proof that somehow slipped past every other SW fan. And now you're so convinced by this "proof" of yours that 90% of the "newbies" on this board MUST have (and I quote) "no fucking clue what they're talking about" are they're just making "ignorant assertions" because YOU alone now the truth and that is:

"THE ANSWER IS NO. HE DOESNT [WEAR A VEST]. END OF THREAD DISCUSSION."

Kind of amazing that you, now, have discovered this proof after years and years of people thinking it was a continuity error and that anyone who thinks otherwise is a nub asshole.

The truth is there's perfectly valid reasons for thinking that Han's wearing a vest, there's also arguments against the logic of that.

Neither of them are conclusive, but it LOOKS like Hans wearing a vest.

The argument that Han doesn't wear the vest in ESB and therefore the vest was "never on the set" is far from conclusive. Han's character had a wardrobe. That wardrobe would have followed Harrison around to whichever studio he was working on that day (as you'd know if you'd ever actually worked on a movie). It's entirely possible that the close up of Han was the first thing that Kershner shot for that scene. Afterwards he may have decided he preferred Han to look more "stripped" and "vulnerable" so he chose to remove the vest... no-one will notice that previous shot, his shoulders were just in frame.

Your "quote" that you describe as proof is idiotic and baffling:

"The Making of Empire novel talks about the shooting of the scene and how there never was a jacket or vest on set because Kershner was pissed to find that the costume department failed to make the white undershirt with sleeves for the scene (in most other scenes to that point Ford was always wearing the blue jacket)."

Kershner (and Ford) were pissed that Han's white shirt had no sleeves, yes? So why would Kershner be pissed that there wasn't a "jacket or VEST" on set when the VEST wouldn't have covered his arms anyway?!

Your "conclusive" proof is far from it. Your logic is based entirely on conjecture. The only thing we have are the PICTURES.

Considering that:

1) It looks like a vest.
2) Lucas spent money correcting the image to make it look like Han was wearing a shirt.
and
3) The "shadow" would have to have fallen *exactly* in two strips on BOTH shoulders to allow for the white that can be seen in the bottom right of the frame and the fact that Han's face isn't under the shadow.

Even if you don't agree that it's a vest, you'd have to be stupid to argue that there's NO REASON to think it's a vest. There is reason and it IS logical, even if you don't agree.

So please stop all this "I'm SO tired of this thread, you people are SO stupid" nonsense.

One more time for those who haven't seen it:

http://www.fabaudits.co.uk/johnsstuff/digital-vest.jpg

[Ayatollah Krispies]

3) The "shadow" would have to have fallen *exactly* in two strips on BOTH shoulders to allow for the white that can be seen in the bottom right of the frame and the fact that Han's face isn't under the shadow.

It's not that there's a shadow falling -- it's that the spot lighting in that shot is focused on Ford's face. Everything outside of it is therefore darker. Looking at the first of your examples, you can see that the right side (to our left) of Ford's collar -- the bit that's in shadow -- is just as dark as the part of his shirt that everyone is claiming is a vest.

Although at this point I'm not even sure whether you're arguing that there WAS a vest or that it just LOOKS like there was. Personally, I'm not willing to accept ANY still frame on my monitor as "proof" of anything; I'd much rather see the thing up on the screen again. I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that this was a color mistake that was added in some other stage of remastering, long after the original screening.

[Projbalance]

Has anyone posed the theory that it may have been his ESB jacket? If it's true that the costume had not yet supplied Ford with a sleeved version of his white tunic shirt, maybe they threw his jacet on for that days shooting and, in the hectic schedule, forgot aboutit and moved on. When they cut the scene together they may have just said, "Everyone will be so busy watcing the scen that they wont notice the inconsistancy" They werent thinking about VHS or DVD where we get to sit back and beat every inch of film to a gutless, bloody pulp(I've doen it with the Obi-Wan/Maul fight in TPM). It's just an oversight. If they havent admitted it it's either because it's embarressing, or they just dont care.

[Ayatollah Krispies]

Has anyone posed the theory that it may have been his ESB jacket? If it's true that the costume had not yet supplied Ford with a sleeved version of his white tunic shirt, maybe they threw his jacet on for that days shooting and, in the hectic schedule, forgot aboutit and moved on.

The "vest" only shows up in two short shots -- Ford's "I know" line and a quick silent shot a few seconds later. It's pretty unlikely that that stuff was shot so far in advance of every other shot in the scene that it was forgotten he'd worn the jacket earlier.

I don't think anyone will deny that in preexisting video releases, it certainly LOOKS like he's wearing a vest. But it's not terribly logical to argue that he actually did.

And seeing as how it's now been fixed, once again we come around to...(wait for it...)

...who gives a shit?

[Lightivity]

Jesus Christ. Are you still talking about this? Still making meaningless posts about this nonissue? Since most of my posts has been edited out (guess they were meaningless post about a nonissue?) I would just like to repeat MY stand on this nerdy, unnessesary and dreadfully unadult discussion:

It´s vest, not a shadow.

See, everything is much more clearer now.

[Biggs]

...oh and I should've said this a while back, but changing the contrast settings on a source .jpg will not prove or disprove any existance of a vest/shadow - because you're only changing the contrast/brightness of a source photo, not the actual "atmosphere" the picture was taken in.

So that proves absolutely nothing, unless it's a 3D picture (ala knollvisions) or the actual source film-frame.

...furthermore, it's not a vest.

Stupid newbies.

[jamieiso]

Can I join in with the wealth of love in this thread.

Doesn't Han's jacket have a collar?

[reala]

Fuck fucking off. Has anyone seen Shaun of the Dead? Now there's a film...

In fact, to keep this argument going, I've decided it's... a.... woolknit cardigan. DEFINITELY a woolknit cardigan. I've NEVER been more sure of a woolknit cardigan in all my life. In FACT again, here's the EXACT one he was wearing:

vermontcountrystore.com/jump.jsp?itemType=PRODUCT&&itemID=6672

That's the one...

[pjvader]

Fuck fucking off. Has anyone seen Shaun of the Dead?

yes many times!

back to the vest afuckingain on the empire of dreams u get to see the original line before its was changed to "I KNOW" should put the whole thing to rest...hopefully!

[reala]

Apart from the fact that you called it a, ahem, "vest", when I clearly proved with my link that it's a cardigan, I agree with you 100%.

Also, for people living in the Magical United Kingdom, you can see a shortened version of the documentary on the Biography Channel this Saturday at 8pm. I think it's on on Sunday in America, though I don't live there, so I cannay be sure. Wham.

[Lightivity]

hahaha, nice one sending him over to TFN.

It's hilarious. What a punch line. You should be the chained clown making jokes at Saddams jailpartys.

[Insert Username]

The topic was Han Solo's vest.

Not that anyone should really give a fuck.

[JonLees]

Ok everyone.

THE DEBATE IS OVER. There is no vest. I was wrong.

I CAN CONFIRM.

I just watched the VH1 special, When Star Wars ruled the World.

They show a scene on the set of TESB right before they shoot what we "thought" was the vest scene. Well, they have the "set" lights on and then turn them off to shoot, leaving only the correct, film lighting on. Guess what, Han's shirt goes from white to black and it "looks" like the vest is there but it's not. There is no vest. End of debate.

Watch the show, it is on again Sat night at 9pm CT, VH1.

Maybe some can tape it and show the video I just saw.

[slee77]

Ok everyone.

THE DEBATE IS OVER. There is no vest. I was wrong.

I CAN CONFIRM.

I just watched the VH1 special, When Star Wars ruled the World.

They show a scene on the set of TESB right before they shoot what we "thought" was the vest scene. Well, they have the "set" lights on and then turn them off to shoot, leaving only the correct, film lighting on. Guess what, Han's shirt goes from white to black and it "looks" like the vest is there but it's not. There is no vest. End of debate.

Watch the show, it is on again Sat night at 9pm CT, VH1.

Maybe some can tape it and show the video I just saw.

YUP I just saw it also so I guess that ends that haha sure enougth all white shirt then the lights go off and the remove the marker and bam you can watch it go from white to black in front of your eyes thank god haha i Have been reading these debates forever noe haha and I always agreed that it was lighting and now VH1 proved it haha never thought I would say those words haha......I actually just saw that part and I got online to post it

[Projbalance]

Maybe they just thought it looked bad? Or maybe it was to put rumors like this to rest just for the sake of doing it? Who knows. AS a trivia buff I am somewhat intrigued to have the final answer. I was on the "Vest is real" side, but I have been wrong before and I like having the right information, even if it is just meaningless trivia.

[JonLees]

I WAS WRONG. I have thought it was a vest for YEARS.


Oh well.

Thank you VH1!!!!

NO VEST.