Episode IV • A New Hope • DVD Discussion

[Ternian]

Discuss.

[Dogg Thang]

Jabba still looks nothing like RotJ Jabba. Not a bit. It's the equivalent of replacing Han with Steve Gutenberg for that scene - totally different actor. Oh, and while I'm on it, Han going over the tail looks like a cutout being waved around in front of a camera and then a quite blur effect to try to hide the crapness. I have no doubt that ILM are capable of better.

Doesn't matter I suppose seeing as the scene shouldn't even be in the movie. Everything is already covered in the Greedo scene, sometimes word for word. It's a pointless scene. Oh well.

Still, the transfer is lovely looking and the lightsaber effects, though a little dodgy, don't bother me too much. I just love what they did with the picture quality. It looks stunning. As other people have already mentioned there seems to be something up with the sound mix. Most parts sound great but there's just some parts where things seem to get lost in the mix. It's no big problem.

Troops should have been on this disc as an easter egg...

Dogg.

[Ternian]

Jabba annoyed me too. There is too much texture in his skin and it is such a different colour green to the other Jabbas. You think they would have got it right this time around.

I had problems with contrast levels and colour saturation in many scenes - sometimes really uneven. And I also thought the opening scene sounded terrible - actually most of the sound was terrible in action scenes.

[Ternian]

The opening scene with the Star Destroyer sounded horrible to me...

[Kendo]

I had problems with contrast levels and colour saturation in many scenes - sometimes really uneven.

God-damn! I spent the first 30 mins constantly messing with the screen controls just trying to get it to look right. I thought it was my TV (a decent quality TV). In the end I gave up pissing around and watched the film...the quality of which blew me away, otherwise.

Jabba I can live with. I tried to see if the wife noticed the wrongly coloured "green" saber that's shown on board the MF - she didn't.

I also had some strange 'smearing' when a TIE flew across the scene during the battle after the MF escapes from the deathstar. Was that just me?

[Jason@Star-Wars.net]

Use the THX calibrator that came with disc. If you do it correctly, you will know that there is nothing you can do.

[PTGrievous]

I didn't like the new Jabba at first (months ago), but now I just look at it, and I have no problem with it...

I absolutely HATE the inconsistent dialogue quality. Crappy sabers. Music gets almost drowned out during one bit of the Yavin Battle. Some of the explosions look oversaturated, some look too dull...
Everything else is awesome, Jabba, Greedo, Dianoga, it all looks great.

[Kendo]

Use the THX calibrator that came with disc. If you do it correctly, you will know that there is nothing you can do.

That's the first thing I did. I hadn't done it with the prequel DVDs, so it was quite cool going through it thinking "This is going to look ace!". But it didn't. Well, it did look great - but the contrast, brightness and colours didn't match from scene to scene.

[Ternian]

Tern,

In what sense? Do you mean score in relation to sound effects etc? Or the entire audio effect and use of speakers etc?

I mean that when the music and the sound effects came together as the destroyer passed through, it just sounded like a horrible garble fo murky sounds.

[Projbalance]

I too have noticed the saturation and contrast issues. I have a 24" flat screen not LCD or plasma, but just a flat scree, and connect with componant video. I have the screen calibrated the bast that I can using the THX optimizer, but things still look too strong. I wonder if this has somethign to do with the difference between normal TV's and plasma/flat panal TV's? I don't think the movies were mastered with normal TV as the goal for the presentation, so that may something to do with it.

As far as audio goes, my only gripe is that the score takes up so much of the surround space. I would have preferred the creation of new atmospheric effects for the surrounds instead of placing the score so prominately in those spaces. The positionins of effects (flybys and such) in the surrounds is fantastic, but the score is so clear and strong it no longer matches the film IMHO.

[pjvader]

Jabba annoyed me too. There is too much texture in his skin and it is such a different colour green to the other Jabbas. You think they would have got it right this time around.

I had problems with contrast levels and colour saturation in many scenes - sometimes really uneven. And I also thought the opening scene sounded terrible - actually most of the sound was terrible in action scenes.

my problem with jabba is that in jedi he clearly has huge orange eyes! i know u can change ur eyes with contacts etc. but i doubt a huge fucking slimy slug is that vain! iirc they were wrong colour in TPM too?
as for the sound i do know waht u mean the mix has been changed i just wish ben burrt had done it and not lowry as he might have got it more precise( dont get me wrong i love the new mix and the quality is amazing and through EX it sounds spectacular) but it is abit muddled during points in ANH but onkly to people who know the previous mixes off by heart!

[Justin]

I had no problem with the DVD audio I thought the voices which I have problems with the most was great. This was running on my semi decent DD 5.1 system. I didn't notice a thing. I did however see some shoddy color saturation in some of the outdoor scenes. Most noticeably during the daylight scenes in tatooine. Also some of the blaster shots would cause red flashes on my whole screen. I thought the ships looked great and the droids in particular were excellent looking. R2D2 look excellent in particular. I also noticed he had some little green screen thing on the back of his head I never saw before. Overall the DVD looks good to me. A bit spotty in some parts but I'm willing to chalk it up to the original film being very old and the masters might not have been in such great condition.

[beckmen]

Hey, is that picture shake (during the explosions) added to the begining of the Gunner Scene new? I don't recall it in the old versions or the SEs...

[Projbalance]

I'm pretty sure that optical jiggle was added in th SE's.

[Dogg Thang]

Watching it with my girlfriend last night, I got an insight into what a non-SW fan with little or no interest in effects thought of it. She has of course seen it before but not for years and not since the prequels came out. She adored it, as I expected, but pointed out several 'problems' while watching it. Here they are, in order of appearance -

1 - Ben's discussion with Luke. This conversation totally baffled her having seen the prequels. In fairness to her it goes beyond the 'Vader killed your father from a certain point of view' thing. Ben's conversation implies that Owen knew Anakin much more than he did and seemed to say that Owen thought he should live out his life as a slave. Of course, that's not what was meant when ANH was filmed but I can see how this would seem wrong to someone who had the prequels fresh in her mind. The prequels have further confused this speech.

2 - Han going over the tail. She instantly pointed it out and said it looked pretty terrible.

3 - Ben allowing himself to be killed. Well, this was always a discussion point but she couldn't understand what he thought he would gain by doing that. If he was trying to motivate Luke into killing his own father, after having lied about that, I think she thought it was pretty crafty and probably not the best way of going about things.

4 - Dirty great big box around one TIE fighter in the escape from Death Star space battle. There is just one shot of a TIE coming towards the screen that really stands out.


Interestingly (for me) she didn't notice the incorrect colouring on the lightsabers (which I thought really stood out in the remote scene), any colour inconsistencies actually and, of course, Greedo shooting first and Jabba not looking like RotJ Jabba were not issues for someone who wasn't that familiar with the movies.

So there you go. The eyes of a non-fan.

Dogg.

[Dogg Thang]

Yep, people see different things I suppose! I should also have mentioned that my gf had a real issue with Chewie not getting a medal. I think Chewie was by far her favourite character in the movie although she did refer to him as 'the dog'.

Dogg.

[Jimbo Asprilla]

I can't believe they didn't enhance the lightsabers more, especially the sounds, they sound weak compared to the strong bass sounds of the prequal trillogy.

But the biggest thing that got my goat is the effects on the Death Star attack, you would have thought they would have improved the effects of the Death Star surface, as they approach the trench it still looks like Yoghurt pots and egg boxes.

apart from that I'm quite content.

[Jimbo Asprilla]

Jimbo Asprilla,

At what point would you stop making changes? I am on the pro change side of the fence, but even I concede that unless you are going to actually re-make Episodes IV - VI, you can't fix everything.

As recent discussions have proven, everyone has a different element of the movies they would like to see changed, or not chnaged.

I wouldn't want to see it remade, but I, like you are infavour of improvements made to special effects that are clearly in need of reworking, I am very happy with the improvements made to the DVD's but I am suprised that while great efforts were made to some scenes I just think the scenes I mentioned were crying out for improvement too.

[SkyWard]

I love how their voices echo in the vertical corridor where Luke and Leia have to swing across.

[ratmankey]

I did the THX optimizing and all that and this is one of the most beautiful transfers I've ever seen. I'm sure it's just in comparison to the previous releases, but god DAMN....I almost cried it was so pretty. It's like watching it for the first time again.

I feel really sorry for the "Lucas raped my childhood" morons who won't let themselves buy these discs on principle.

Edit: Tern.

[beckmen]

Skyward reminded me of another change: When Luke and Leia are in the shaft, their echoes sound MUCH better than they did in the SE. In the SE, the echo is more of a delay, and sounded like they just looped the line. Now, it actually sounds like and echo. Another change for the better IMO.

[pjvader]

I feel really sorry for the "Lucas raped my childhood" superfriends who won't let themselves buy these discs on principle.

i couldnt agree more, i mangaged to educate a few peple who thought that way and they now love the box sets!


as for the chasm echo, the 1st ever UK widescreen video release of ANH had the echo in the stereo mix but if u switched to mono there was no echo i am now begining to kick myself in the thinking that the mono mix on the vhs might actually have been the "actual mono mix" that was done for theaters! gotta get a copy and find out!!!!

[dylan]

But how do you have two separate sound tracks on a VHS tape? I mean it's either stereo interpreted as mono, plain stereo or Dolby Surround where it's reading the matrixed "channels" from the stereo track. It's all still one stereo audio track. To get the Mono Mix, you'd need to find an old Mono video tape.

[R.K.O]

WHY THE HELL IS THE SABER LUKE PRACTICES WITH IS GREEN?

[Dogg Thang]

Maybe it's set to 'stun'...

Dogg.

[dylan]

[SkyWard]

About the green saber thing. It isn't the same saber as the blue one he uses earlier anyway, so why does the one on the falcon have to be blue, too? Why can't it be green?

Does anyone know why it shouldn't be green? My cousin has a theory Obi-Wan has kept many a friend's saber. He's been around a long time. What other hobbies would he have anyway?

[Projbalance]

I'll take this one, if it's ok with you guys. Luke has only ever had two sabers, his fathers and the one he builds for Jedi. Ben has one saber, and he didnt give it to Luke.

In the filming, the sabers were orginally going to be a physical, on set effect. All the rods for the sabers had reflective material on them to make them glow. It was decided after the fact that they would be colored. Vader was given a red saber, Ben a blue one. Luke was given a lighter shade of blue so as not to confuse the audiance as to which dude had wich blade(thats what I think anyway). The restoration caused a color shift in the scenes with Lukes saber, resulting in the lighter blue in the corona of the blade to white out and fade into the core of the blade. Since his saber only appears in two scenes, I figuie it was no big issues to re-color the blade at this time.

However the scene on the Falcon, despite whatever justifiable reasons, problems, or excuses that might exist, is just fucked up. Plain and simple, end of story. Someone just was NOT paying attention.

[Projbalance]

I have to add something ridiculous here. Hs anyone else noticed how the stormtroopers keep sliding around all over the place when they walk? I know the reasons for this in the real world filming aspect of things, but honestly. They whack their heads going through doors, they slide around all over the floor when they walk, they just can not hit a damned thing... this is the military power that holds the galaxy in the grip of terror?

[Misfit]

Yeah, they're clumsy as hell. The actors must not have been able to see shit in those helmets.

[Mentasm]

I finally found time to sit down and watch ANH properly last night, but half way through I turned it off because I simply wasn't enjoying it. Every time I started to get into the film some technical glitch would pop up and pull me out of the moment. How THX have the gall to put their seal on this disc is beyond me (although THX doesn't exactly stand for much now).

Putting aside the reversed stereo surrounds (which are noticable but moreso in some scenes than others), the quality of the dialogue is appalling. It varies wildly from scene to scene, sometime from sentence to sentence within the same scenes. It's not just the Tarkin/Leia exchange - the whole film is rife with it. The loss of the score at certain times being labelled a 'creative decision' is laughable, especially as it's correctly mixed on the French Surround track.

Luke's saber on he Falcon is green. Having examined it again, it has definitely been altered as the blade intensity etc is completely different from the two previous releases (original and SE). This is terrible quality control. While I admit that the films look very clean, the pallette is oversaturated and the colour correction is very odd in some scenes.

All in all I am terribly disappointed with the technical aspects of this disc. Thakfully Empire is a lot better, and although Jedi suffers from contrast issues, it too is much better. It may be the oldest of the bunch, but the 5.1 tracks on the laserdisc release of ANH are superior to this DVD. It's a crying shame...

[Fixer]

Is it just me, or are R2's panels black again during the Death Star sequence? One of the few decent fixes in the SE's was to correct the black paneled R2 they used (to avoid blue screen problems) to blue. Now they look black again. WTF? I haven't checked ESB yet.

Overall, very dissapointed in this release.

[Mentasm]

Perhaps, but the laserdisc Dolby Surround and 5.1 tracks don't have the kind of radical shift in quality that this release does. If it were 'only' a case of the differing audio elements I could perhaps live with it, but there's so much wrong with this release it all but ruined the film for me. To be honest, not being an 'average' viewer, I'd have welcomed the original tracks. Trouble is the films they accompany no longer exist...

On a related note, today was the first time I ever noticed that Tarkin says 'name the system' twice (although the second time you don't actually hear it).

[Projbalance]

I noticed the dialouge shift is pretty much a 'take to take' issue, with the quality shift remaining constant through changes in camera angle during a scene. I think the issue is not the poor quality of the ADR, but the oppisite. The production audio has been punched up so much it is what damages the blend in the film, with so much set noise and the like that the illusion is damaged. I can only imagine that the mastering for the DVD makes this more apparent than I may have realised before withlower quality audio transfers. The music issue, while noticable, doesnt really bother me as I am usually too busy watching the film to care. The music is only supposed to support the film, not overshadow it. As far as teh video, I am left to wonder if the new masters were done from the film negatives or from the older digital masters.

[Mentasm]

I haven't had time to finish it yet. I've got a lot of responsibilities at the site (dealing with distributors etc), and it's more of an ongoing pet project than anything. I will be updating it as and when I find the time, as well as doing comparisons for Empire and Jedi.

[Projbalance]

Can't wait to read it. I know I havent seen it all yet, so it'll be interesting to see what I missed, if anything.

[Mentasm]

Bloody Slashdot killed us temporarily tonight, so I've had to place the update on hold. Server couldn't cope with all the requests because of all the images.

[buzzfunk]

During the Rebels attack on the Death Star, just as the X-Wings swoop down to attack the trench, a triumphant statement of the Force theme can be heard. The DVD release of the film buries this music so far down in the mix that it is virtually inaudible, as demonstrated by this clip.

Sorry but ANH is a complete mess. One of my favorite goosebump scenes...no theme. Its just sad. Of course LF doesnt have the balls to admit that they FUCKED up the mix on ANH really bad.

Thank god i still have the original movies on Laserdisk. Even with all their FX flaws, they are much better, imo.

[Zion]

During the Rebels attack on the Death Star, just as the X-Wings swoop down to attack the trench, a triumphant statement of the Force theme can be heard. The DVD release of the film buries this music so far down in the mix that it is virtually inaudible, as demonstrated by this clip.

Sorry but ANH is a complete mess. One of my favorite goosebump scenes...no theme. Its just sad. Of course LF doesnt have the balls to admit that they FUCKED up the mix on ANH really bad.

Thank god i still have the original movies on Laserdisk. Even with all their FX flaws, they are much better, imo.

This is a big reason why transfering the LD's to DVD is so popular right now.

[buzzfunk]

Never thought about that...LD to DVD?

Good idea...

[Ziggy]

Actually, the entire issue seems to have dissappeared.

I've not seen any articles, or even mention of the reversed audio tracks since the digital Bits contacted Lucasfilm directly.

Your obviously an audiophile with a keen ear. I'm sorry you are unable to enjoy this release. Hopefully, the next release will be more suited to your tastes.

[Ziggy]

I'm not saying you're wrong to want this corrected, all I meant was that the issue seems to have completely died down on every site I visit, and I don't think it ever made it to the main stream press in the first place.


Audiophiles are rightfully annoyed, but I guess most people just shrug and think these discs have way more plusses than minuses.

This situation is just like the Edge Enhancement problem on the TPM DVDs. Most people didn't notice or care, but it's quite evident on large Hidef screens.

[Mentasm]

Audiophiles aren't the only ones to be pissed off by the glaring issues with the sound. I'm not an audiophile, but I do review DVDs for a reasonably large site and I've written a couple of articles on the subject. How anyone with a 5.1 set-up can't hear the problems with the score is beyond me. It's not just that either, these releases (particularly ANH) have been rushed out with too many mistakes intact. Sure they look really sharp and detailed for films from twenty years ago, but colour correction, contrast, reversed scores, damaged audio elements and the like should never have made it onto a retail product. They certainly aren't worth the 10/10 scores they've been getting (even the more pedestrian new releases can match them technically).

I think the biggest problem is that so many people got carried away with the release they didn't stop to objectively criticise it. I know of at least one UK magazine that 'reviewed' it without even seeing the finished product! How unprofessional is that? I'm not having a go at anyone who can't see the or hear the problems, but why should those of us who can put up with it for that reason? Oh I forgot, there are no problems, just 'creative decisions'. Listen to the French Surround track during the Death Star attack and then tell me it was a creative choice to burry the Force theme...

[Ziggy]

Audiophile is not an insult. I merely meant that many laypersons wouldn't or didn't notice the switch in the surround channels.

I noticed the switch, but I didn't care.

[yarq]

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[yarq]

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