Anyone going to EDIT the new DVDs & remake the ORIGINALS

[JonLees]

Ok, I am one who prefers the originals and always will.

After seeing the new release of Empire, I like the original even more. Fett's lines sound horrible now and the pink lightsaber has got to be changed.

So, I was thinking, why not use as much of the DVD's video/audio as possible and make an original, theatrical version? The video from the new DVD does look much better than LD rips but the changes just irritate the hell out of me.

Anyone want to try and edit the DVDs and cut video/sound into them from the LD rips? I would prefer to have the quality be good for 90% of the film and use old video/audio for the other 10%.

"Bring my shuttle", Fett's original voice, and other dialogue HAS to be put back into TESB. The pink saber needs to be edited in Photoshop and Han needs to kill Greedo, older Anakin instead of Hayden needs to be put back etc, etc.

I personally want everything to be the original, theatrical version but use the best video/audio out there.

I seem to remember from another thread that someone was planning this already?

[Jason@Star-Wars.net]

You probably couldn't do it because of wipes and stuff like that. Have you seen the comparison shots between the LD and the new DVD? It would look bad everytime they dropped in an original shot over the new one.

[Faid]

You probably couldn't do it because of wipes and stuff like that. Have you seen the comparison shots between the LD and the new DVD? It would look bad everytime they dropped in an original shot over the new one.

I disagree... to a point. Check out this sample: http://www.wallhacker.com/MFonly/anakin.avi

Now you obviously won't have the clarity of the DVD's, but with a little modification with the contrast/brightness levels I don't think it would be distracting.

I've had a similar idea in mind for awhile now, only the current software out there that I have tried (a big fuck you to Premiere) is too complicated/time consuming for what should be a relatively simple task.

I think the Original Trilogy is much better, but I wouldn't mind incorporating a few of the cosmetic changes (for example Yavin).

edit: I think we could gather up a dedicated crew from this forum skilled in specific areas, and also ask people of the forum what kind of direction they think the DVD should take.

[Jason@Star-Wars.net]

I'm no expert so correct me if I'm wrong.

Those ghost shots are exceptions and they are also compressed down to 1 meg shots that are small. Also, when they released the Special Edition didn't they have a company redo the wipes and transitions? If so the timing would be different Wouldn't that be difficult for shots like the sandcrawler and that sort of jazz?

I have no editing experience at all, but it seems to me that you would need the original shot without the transition to make the oringinal transitions work.

I think I was thinking about this the wrong way during my initial post. Since we are only theorhetically replacing SE shots. When I checked out the "Look sir, droids!" shot on my LD a few weeks ago, it looked terrible. You would really need someone to clean those shots up.

If you guys can make it work, I will be the first in line to download it! In my mind with the source material available, it seems like it would be a hard thing to do with the current material available. I think if someone does do it, they shouldn't make it a mix and match edition but a 100% original edition.

[Faid]

If there are any scenes that require new wipes I don't suppose it would be too difficult to replicate. I actually like the new Sandcrawler shot and I like the corrected Dewback scene, but I may be alone.

For example, would anyone object to seeing the improved SE Hoth scene intact?

[JonLees]

I am fine with the Hoth attack. There are no major changes there. Getting rid of matte lines, etc is fine with me.

No way would the new Dewback scene be ok with me, it just does not look like a 1977 scene. Too CGI.

I guess this would be something like the "faces" trilogy. Lucas had the ORIGINAL versions cleaned up for that. It was still the original trilogy but they got rid of the boxes around TIE figthers and other LITTLE things.

I do realize the overall quality would jump from looking great to looking just ok but again, that is fine with me. It would be a better version overall to me.

As it is now, I have to skip areas or fast forward some of the scenes...a LOT of Bespin has been ruined and the chase at the end between TIEs and Falcon is butchered now because of the Vader shuttle sequence landing. John Williams' music was very fast paced before and that sequence really screws things up. Not to mention it is a scene from ROTJ.

Another scene I HATE is when Kenobi is using the Jedi mind trick on a stormtrooper in ANH. It's a serious scene and is ruined now by a distraction...that little flying droid. Why the hell add that anyway??

I would be interested in moving this forward if others are willing to help.

Anyone care to start an email list or dedicated thread?

[Jedi Master Matt]

While I do like the idea of a non-SE version of the OT being available on DVD, I wouldn't want a hodge-podge version of varying quality available. Talk about jump-cuts! With the quality of these new DVDs it'd be like going from VHS to DVD for some sequences.

I'd rather get a new DVD dual layer burner and some media and recap the Faces or Definitive Edition LDs uncompressed, then anamorphically scale them, cap the audio with uncompressed PCM and then start working on the compression. Try it two different ways to see which way would work better: 1) minimal compression on video and convert audio to 483kbs Dolby Digital or 2) more compression on video and try to retain uncompressed PCM.

The only way I'd do it is if you were targeting dual layer media only. Then again, we're not "that" far off from Blu-ray. You could take uncompressed video and audio and fit it without a problem then.

There is already a great bootleg for single layer media available. It's not going to get much better than it.

Again, I don't think this exercise is worth it. I'd only try it if you go dual layer. It MAY be worth it when Blu-ray is available. Not worth the time and effort.

So, my parting words are:

"If you choose to face Vader, you will do it alone... I cannot interfere."

p.s. - Just buy a good laserdisc player and a good scaler. It's not going to get any better.

[mebejedi]

I think you'll find that the effort necessary to make this look good will ultimately be considerably more than you are willing to spend, and the end product may not be all that satisfying anyways.

For one thing, the DVD footage is already compressed, so if you combine it with LD footage and recompress to MPEG, you will be losing the original high visual quality of the DVDs. Secondly, having made my own Star Wars LD to DVD rip, I can tell you that it takes some tweaking to get a good LD picture. To add even more tweaking to get it to match the DVD image would be very time-consuming.

Now, you could add your LD rip to specific places in the DVD VOB's (so you don't have to recompess them), but you will lose the nice fades between scenes. That would be very distracting (unless you got rid of the fades altogether.)

Your best bet is to just focus on making the best LD rip that you can. Now, if you were able to get your hands on the DVD masters...

[pjvader]

to get a "standard" quality to the whole saga u would have to drop the quality on the official release or add filters that degrade it to the LD quality
i know how u feel! but if u dont already have mcdermd's dvds just get them they are amazing i watch them on the projector and they dont dissapoint
i really do feel that they are the only way we are going to ever get the O-OT on dvd, unless lucas has had lowry doing some secret overtime work remastering one of his original prints, the O-OT are simply gone
as all the restoration has been done to the "new" versions the originals simply dont exist except in their original forms, i used to do the same for my movies i shot @college/uni i would continually enhance them when the technology became availble to do what i couldnt do @ the time! george just does this on a larger scale! and budget!

[JonLees]

We "could" buy 35mm versions of the trilogy and convert them to HD tape or WM9 or something. Cost would be a lot though but hey, originals in 1080i or 1080p would be something else.

[dylan]

Much comedy ensues in this thread. I especially like the advocate for "home telecine" here.



Go ahead, try this. It'll end up looking like shit.

[pjvader]

We "could" buy 35mm versions of the trilogy and convert them to HD tape or WM9 or something. Cost would be a lot though but hey, originals in 1080i or 1080p would be something else.

i have empire on super 8, the whole movie condensed to 18 mins! we could telecine that? and i got the super 8 SE trailer and TPM trailer too!
man i gotta go get them out and have look now! damn u jonlees!! ur not a chiropadist are u?

[dylan]

I'm going to have to remember that I can hire joe_h as a technical messageboard double ;-)

- my thoughts exactly, joe.

[mebejedi]

...even though I pretty much said the same thing...

[mebejedi]

There's a few interesting ideas in there, but I'd rather work from the SE LD's (though my player won't output the AC3 ), and match those scenes to my THX LD's.

"I dont miss the matte boxes and some other things."

I just encoded my MPEGS a litter darker than the LD's, and the matte boxes disappeared.

[Tim Lehrbach]

Why overcomplicate any edit trying to do transition wipes, the majority of revised material on the DVD can be replaced by either audio dubbing, cutting the scene out entirely, or inserting a few seconds of photoshop adjusted Definitive LD cuts in place of the revised DVD material.(It won't be an exact match, but for dimly lit scenes like Greedo and Han, and the Ghost scene the quality drop off wouldn't be as noticable).

The Ghost scene can be done without having to do more than insert a few seconds of LD material in place of the Hayden stuff........example:

1.DVD scene, luke walks to tree
2.LD scene, Cut to Shaw
3.DVD scene with Luke and Leia
4.LD scene with Shaw scene
5.DVD cut back to celebration, transition wipe to credits.

The Boba dialogue is also simple to replace, since the original voice sounded almost mono to begin with...ect.

[pjvader]

Also doesnt Jeremy Bulloch visit sites like the replica prop forum and fan sites. I'm sure some one could convince him to redo his lines.

iirc jason wingreen did bobas voice, jeremy was only in the costume(and not all of the time either!)

i would love to do a perfect master of the OT but as i said before JUST DOWNLOAD MCDERMD'S DVD VERSIONS THEY ARE AS PERFECT AS U WILL GET OF THE OT! they have to be seen to be beleived, i have had many OT dvds in the past and these piss on the lot +u get the OT commentaries, easter eggs and there is the supplemental bonus material disc too!! and its free and already out there, it keeps me happy and im a fussy bugger! looks and sounds great even on a huge projector screen

[JonLees]

Anyone care to post them in newsgroups?

[Zion]

dude, mcdermd IS Dr.Gonzo

[dylan]

[Faid]

VirtualDub won't work for this project, and I'd suggest leaving it in the hands of those capable.

You would however need to rip the ROTJ retail and ROTJ laserdisc to the same dimensions and file format.

[Jedi Master Matt]

"Marty, we've got to get the Delorean up to 88 mph!"

"Why Doc?"

"Becuase, we've got to get our DVD burners back to the PAST to make copies of the Original Star Wars Trilogy."

--------------------------------------------------------------

Again, no point in doing this using the current DVDs as source material. Not trying to be mean, just honest.

Use Faces or Definative LDs and cap to fit dual layer media. Otherwise, it won't be worth the time.

oh wait... drugs. Lots of drugs. Then you'll see the movie the way you want.

[Jeordie]

I'll just wait a few years for the official release and avoid all this stuff, this bickering is pointless.

[CoGro]

I guarantee you that not one person on this board can make a decent DVD version of the original OT with the existing LD and DVD. As pointed out above, the timing of the cuts, the music edits, the wipes....all the elements of the film will make it very difficult for someone to make a version worthwhile.

IMO you'll end up with a product even more butchered than ditractors of the SEs think those versions are.

I say wait for the Blu Ray versions or whatever format that's bound to release the oringal OT cuts on DVD...it'll happen, just not anytime in the immediate future.

[thecolorsblend]

Very true, but what Im trying to do is edit out all the stuff that really annoys me (Hayden, Temura, CG Jabaa, New dance sequence). All of the little things that dont matter to me will just stay in. Like ive said ive aready sucessfully re-inserted Shaw. That was easy. Now im working on the Palace dance sequence. What im trying to do is combine non CG shots from the SE with LD shots of all the old puppets and then tack on the old audio from the LD's (so I can hear Lapti Nek instead of Jedi rocks) So far ive been sucessful except I cant figure out how to convert either audio file so I can jump from the LD audio to the DVD audio after the dance scene ends. Any suggestions on how to do this?

It's your life and everything, but why would you want to do this? Sounds like a lot of time and energy invested into something that will, at best, be a LOT of compromises. As someone else wrote, it's just a matter of time until the OOT is officially released on one format or another. Lucas can say what he likes about his artistic expressions (and I agree with him 100%), but there's a LOT of interest in seeing the original versions. Fox will eventually talk him into doing this. Watch it happen.

[Ayatollah Krispies]

Fox will eventually talk him into doing this. Watch it happen.

Assuming that Fox has any power to talk Lucas into anything is almost as silly as the rest of this topic.

[Hal 9000]

This is a topic of much discussion at www.originaltrilogy.com as well.

I know of a few people working on a project like this that post there.

[Zion]

Don't forget you'll have to paint out the droids flying around the sandtroopers in Mos Eisley. I'd love to see someone pull that one off....

Also remember that the Space battle is cut a lot different in the SE. A few digital shots are thrown in here and there. You may have to switch to the LD audio in some places.



Not that I believe there is hope for a project like this, but hey, it doesn't hurt to see someone try.

[dylan]

Not that I believe there is hope for a project like this, but hey, it's funny to see someone try.

[Kalla]

When the higher capacity DVD R/W's hit the market and EP 3 is out on DVD I'm gonna use like a "DVD shrink" program to cut them all together and edit out certain scenes... (ie Anakin riding that oversized tick)

I'm debating on whether I should put them in order or the way that I'd like to show my son when he's older with ANH first, or do them TPM thru ROTJ.

I managed to put Pulp Fiction together in order... but it just isn't the same.

[dylan]

Uh, yeah, DVDShrink. That'll do editing.

[Kalla]

Uh, yeah, DVDShrink. That'll do editing.

I'm a Wookiee, I never said I was skilled in Video Editing.

But you got the gist of what I was saying...

[thecolorsblend]

Well the new space battle dosent annoy me, and the little changes like a CG droid being inserted are so small that they really dont bug me, so ill just save myself some time and leave it in.

Why? Don't you want the ORIGINAL trilogy? How could you be satisfied with annoying CG droids that weren't part of your childhood? How can you get that "warm, nostalgic feel" with those blatant eye sores bobbing around in the frame?

And hey, why not go the full-nine and grab the original mono mix off an old VHS tape? I mean, if you really want the ORIGINAL trilogy, how could anything besides the mono mixes be acceptable?

And hell, you may as well grab the original (without Episode IV- A New Hope) opening crawl from Empire of Dreams while you're at it. In for a penny, in for a pound, right?

[nomad]

i must of been about 12 years old when i watched a vhs tv recorded copy of a new hope about 3 times in a row one weekend day... ah the memories

[Zion]

The way I see it, there are three types of OT fans (besides the casual fan who doesn't know the difference between the originals and the SE's).

* Purists want nothing more than to have Star Wars preserved the same way they saw it in the theater. Things like "Episode IV - A New Hope" and 5.1 sound are a nuisance, and anything digital is evil. They'll probably even edit the cigarette burns back in.

* The Lucas Faithful are content with all of the changes to the SE and the new DVD's. Greedo always shot first, Boba sounds like Jango, and Hayden as a force ghost is the only way to go.

* Then you've got the 'tweeners. They're not sure exactly which changes they like and which ones they hate. But one thing's for sure, Luke's saber was NOT three different colors....

[Zion]

Well I guess I meant to say that they can't agree on what changes they like and dislike. All those you mentioned would be 'tweeners in my mind.

[Zion]

"* Then you've got the 'tweeners. They're not sure exactly which changes they like and which ones they hate"

Apparently, you think people who like some changes and don't like others are "unsure". I guess you think if they aren't in one camp or the other, then their individual opinions really don't count, or did you want to include an obviously missing fourth group there?

"I guess I meant to say that they can't agree on what changes they like and dislike."

Why must they agree with anyone else, much less fit into your little categories that you want to put them in?

So much for individual opinion...

First of all, I'm classifying people based on the feedback I get from my own OT DVD project. I get several emails a day from people telling me what version of the OT I should make or what brand of digital audio to use. When I tell people I'm not going to include this or that, or I'm going to touch up certain saber effects, the purists cry blasphemy. The 'tweeners all have "great ideas" of what SE shots I should splice in off the DVD's, and the rest wonder why I'm doing a transfer in the first place.

It's not that I dislike certain people for their opinions on the OT. I guess I just get annoyed at people trying to tell me how to do my own OT transfer. I own the Official DVD's and I'm just like most people on this site - I like most of the changes made, but I have my own opinions about the overall quality.

[yarq]

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[yarq]

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