millenniumfalcon.com

He just posted this amongst his 'Spoiler Scorecard' thread I never heard this tidbit till now.

"((have I ever mentioned that Anakin cuts off Dooku's hands, then helpless and hunched over, Anakin scissors off his head with a red and a blue saber? Pretty cool stuff, didn't know if that has been posted yet or not))"

Pretty gruesome.

How do we know if any of that stuff was even shot? The info could have been in a draft of a script but who knows if something like that actually makes it into the movie on May 19th.

Lol, im not saying what JG says is gospel, its a 'spoiler report' take it with a grain of salt.

That's pretty much how it's been reported as going down for a while now. Except I thought he only lost one hand.

Damn... the body part count keeps rising.

2 x hands (Dooku)
1 x head (Dooku)
1 x arm (Anakin)
2 x leg (Anakin)
1 x guts (Greivous)
------------------------
= George Lucas is one sick mutha

*oh, and throw in Padme's hymen as a bonus

And who chops the most?

OB1.

Don't forget all the random Jedi deaths, like when Anakin storms the Temple and we get to see some of it via hologram. And then there's Mace vs Sidious and Anakin... who knows what might happen there.

BTW, the camera does pull in close to Dooku, showing him with great fear in his eyes and a red and blue saber crossed just short of his neck. Don't know what happens after that ...

JG

And remember, the establishing shot is Dooku with no hands ... DEFENSELESS.

JG


Again, he talks as if he has seen film.

maybe he has seen the film since publicly admitting that he hadn't seen it ... or NOT.

Cutting off both hands before decapitating him sounds way too sadistic. One hand I can see, two hands is too far (at least in the eyes of censors).

What i cant stand is surfing over to TFN to look for maybe a few tidbits, and find thread supposedly devoted to a spoiler, instead bashing people who dont believe JGs credibility. Its not like the guy has a spotless record. People are falling in love with Griff i think.

The only thing that worries me, as a UK type person, is if Lucas puts in a really gruesome death for Dooku, and then the censors here decide to have parts of it cut out (like with the Jango / Obi-Wan headbutt thing in AOTC).

If I recall correctly, Anakin beheading Dooku is seen as shadows on the wall.

JG mentions in one of the threads that he has a picture from this scene (I think showing Dooku on his knees handless in front of Anakin)

He said it won't be posted on TF.N.

Here's hoping to it showing up here!

would be cool..

I've heard rumblings of something big coming up, but I dunno any details, if i get any I'll post back...

Yikes this sounds just too cruel. Whatever about the beheading, the image of a defeated Dooku with no hands sounds over the top. I like it but it will fly in the face of anyone who uses 'Star Wars is for kids' in defense of certain issues. I sounds really, really nasty.

I really hope we see the good side of Dooku and feel sorry for him. I loved that, even by the end of Ep2, he could still turn out to be a man of principle who was trying to do the right thing even if going about it the wrong way. I have heard almost no Dooku spoilers so I don't know how that plays out.

But few characters deserve such a gruesome death.

Dogg.

Oh I agree absolutely and that is why, in a way, I hope Dooku will be absolved of some guilt after his death. Anakin would have brutally murdered a man who may not have deserved it.

Dogg.

Correct.

Veering out of control because Anakin was out of control.

In addition to chopping off Anakin's arm and making no bones about his intent to kill Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Yoda, Dooku helped to orchestrate a war that no doubt will take the lives of millions, will lead to the Empire swallowing up the Republic, and he also manages to deliver into Palpatine's hands the designs for a weapon that is used to destroy entire planets.

He deserves it.

Well quite possibly but I don't see it as simply as that. Even with the revelation that Dooku was in league with Sidious at the end of Ep2, it is still quite possible that Dooku was doing what he was doing because he believed in his cause - that the Senate was corrupt and controlled and that thei freedom meant little in that situation. It doesn't make him the good guy by any means but it allows him much more honour than a simple quest for power. Many of those incidents you mentioned are, like many things in Star Wars, depending on a certain point of view. It's not like Obi-Wan hasn't cut an arm off in his day. Killing Anakin may well have saved the Galaxy. Given what we know happened after Ep3, the willingness with which Yoda chose to command this mysterious Clone Army that would then dominate them could also throw him in the category of 'evil'. Just because he's doing it for the right reasons seems to absolve him of guilt. I would hope the same applies to an extent to Dooku. Obi-Wan's distortions of the truth (again, a certain point of view) and his training of someone the Council clearly did not want trained throw him into doubt.

It's simply perception.

But that's a different discussion. The reason I brought it up here is that Dooku has not had an opportunity to present his case (except to Obi-Wan who simply didn't believe him). If Anakin butchers him and it turns out there is more to Dooku than a simple 'bad guy' it will add much more to Anakin's actions, especially seeing as we have seen many 'hero' characters in SW kill 'bad guys' and it didn't seem to make them 'evil'.

I just hope that, if Lucas goes this nasty with it, he milks it for all it's worth.

Dogg.

Huh?

Dooku's sole argument against the Senate -- at least the only time it's presented -- is that it's being controlled and manipulated by a Sith lord. Then it turns out that HE'S the one taking orders from a Sith lord. I don't see how much more simple it can get. The guy fights with a red saber, for crying out loud.

It was the Official Site that said they made they cut...

Heh, I can't argue with the red lightsaber! You're probably right. I just sensed more nobility in Dooku than we've had in a SW bad guy and the fact that he was a Jedi for so long must count for something. He was too long in the game to be simply 'seduced' by the Dark Side. I just see a man of principles where maybe I shouldn't. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out but you could well be right. But my original point is more about Anakin's treatment of Dooku - if Dooku is given some sort of honour, some sort of nobility and good intentions (despite his actions), it will make his death all the more hideous.

Could be that Tyrannus is influencing me from the huge card publicity poster I have of him behind my desk at work...

Dogg.

Cut from the script of course...

Well there is also C - he is not redeemed, he is still with the Dark Side and dies with the Dark Sidde but it turns out that he ended up there with good intentions rather than simply being seduced or controlled. It doesn't redeem him but it does give him a sort of tragic honour.

But you are right, your scenario is the simplest and probably most likely to be the case. Maybe it's that Lee's performance was so good that I saw a depth there that he added rather than being written in.

Dogg.

I cant blame Dogg Thang here for sensing more nobility in Dooku than weve had in a SW bad guy before. I for one didnt instantly click that he was trying to make Obi Wan his new Sith Apprentice simply because how emphatically he plead his seemingly righteous arguments to him.

I think this stems from the Christopher Lees fine performance but also the fact that were not used to such duality from a Sith Lord as thanks to the OT we all know Palpatine is a liar already.

Both these Sith Lords are as bad as each other, charming charismatic liars who can clothe themselves in righteousness but are evil to the core within - the Clone Wars are essentially the two of them battling it out for control of the Galaxy.

With Dooku training Grievous (presumeably to be his apprentice) you can clearly see he's in it for himself and out to shaft everyone - including his master (much like Saruman in LOTR, well in the books anyway) and doesn't care for all the carnage, destruction and misery he causes to achieve this end. As such, Darth Tyrannus deserves a nasty end as much as the one Sidious eventually gets.

That's new..

Do we know that for sure or are you guessing?

Well it said on the back of the Grievous toy that Dooku trained him in lightsaber combat. I would have thought that is a long jump from being a Sith apprentice though. I suppose that depends on what Grievous' abilities are meant to be...

It also throws up the obvious loophole to the 'only two' rule which is that it seems they can train anyone in Sith know-how as long as there are only two that get the Sith label.
Dogg.

unlike basic physics the 'only two' sith rule can be broken and would only be broken by an apprentice since (if i remember correctly) it was introduced because sith apprentices in great numbers were dangerous to a sith master - aka overthrowing occured often.

Grievous is not Force Sensitive. I'm 99% certain that that comes from one of Pablo's Hyperspace Q&A updates, but wherever it's from, I know that's the case. So while Dooku may have trained Grievous to use a lightsaber (a fact that, if true, will only make it's way into the novel and most likely not the movie), he certainly was not training Grievous as a Sith apprentice.


EDIT: Well I'll be damned if I can find it in Pablo's Q&A. I guess that's why you never say you're 100% sure. So I'll say that I'm 99% sure that I heard this from an official source. Does anyone else remember it?

It's in Insider 78.



Ok so I quoted from memory, but I'm 99% sure that's what he said word for word. The question was in regard to the Clone War episode where Grievous strikes Shaak Ti.

It says grievous is not a force user, but shaak ti used a force shield to deflect his saber strike. the sheer power of the strike thrust shaak ti...not him using the force.

Well, to be fair to Dooku, the Jedi attacked him. He didn't turn up to the Jedi Temple and go on a rampage. They came to him, infiltrated a local entertainment event which involved the sentencing of criminals and attacked.

My assumption from AotC (and maybe it was a deleted scene) was that Obi-Wan, Anakin and Padme were legitimately tried in the local Geonosis court (as legitimately as that can be) and the sentence was being carried out. It was the Jedi, and the Clones, who attacked, undermining that trial and the sovereign nation of Geonosis. The Geonosians and Dooku were simply defending to stay alive.

Don't be so quick to forget who attacked who in AotC (the title says it all really).

Dogg.

Well, that's exactly my point. Anakin and Obi-Wan were guilty of spying and, at a stretch, invading Geonosis. So, though we may not agree with the judgement, they were being executed for an actual crime and it was simply a sentence being carried out. Then the Jedi invaded in force. Hundreds, if not thousands, of Geonosians would have been killed.

As far as the droid army to "overwhelm the Jedi" goes, if the Jedi were so easy to attack in such force I can't blame them for being prepared. Is that any worse than the Jedi accepting a whole Clone army that turned up in very dubious circumstances?

Dogg.

the clone attack was a pre-emptive strike just like iraq

Exactly.

Dogg.

so its informed opinion that says Dooku isnt training Grievous to be his apprentice? (as i was obviously guessing)

if so pity as it would be a shame to see Dooku as merely another gormless pawn of Sidious in proceedings. i had just thought the whole thing of him capturing Palpatine was him attempting to betray him but i guess not - more like the reverse i guess

I'm reading the Clone Wars Novel "Yoda - Dark Rendezvous" and in it Asajj Ventress is begging Dooku to train him as an apprentice. Dooku points out that he has taught her a great deal, but Asajj complains that these "parlour tricks" merely scratch the surface of being a Sith. Dooku says, basically, that he will not take on such a young and ambitious apprentice. While she follows his orders blindly now, were she his apprentice, she may question one of his orders and then be strong enough to overthrow him. Dooku believes that Sidious chose him, because he was too old to be too ambitious.

That's what I thought Dooku was all along.

Yeah, that's basically what they all are, until Vader turns against him at the very end.

Yeah.. I'm thinking people are confusing the fact that the sithly apprentice bad guys are pretty cool to watch on screen with the fact that they are just henchmen bitches to Sidious.

Perhaps it would be easier for people to grasp if they were like Batman henchmen.

Palpatine is Gordon Gecko.

Ventress is a dark jedi or dark acolyte, not sith. She isn't Darth Ventress. According to the EU, Palps trained a whole bunch of dark side users, aka Hands of the Emperor. Vader also trained some dark acolytes in the EU. No sith though.