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From our newest Insider :: Hard Copy:




And this is just the beginning - EXCLUSIVE to MF.com

Damn.. we at BTM were pretty close.

http://www.beforethemagic.com/scenes/BTM38.jpg

Emperor Palpatine, Vader and Tarkin are standing on the bridge of a stardestroyer, looking over the final stages of their new project. They can see a whole armada of stardestroyers, huge warships protecting the skeleton of a dangerous secret weapon.
Vader addresses himself to his master. "I don’t fear the dark side master,
I embrace it!"

Oh yeah...its in.

Some of the stuff coming in the next days will blow you away.

The reprise of Tarkin is very very cool.. I hope they mention his name in the Movie.

Fucking A! Does this mean we are finally going to see this movie split wide open once and for all? Can't wait!

This is great news... It looks like these next few weeks are what we have all been waiting for. We should enjoy it while it lasts.

:heavymetal2:

I'm iffy on the Death Star being in the movie. However, the arrival of new spoilers and/or confirmation of old ones is very, very welcome!

What are you talking about??? THis is going to rule!

Thanks Ternnnnnnn

Does this mean...

script ahoy!

If so, I love getting X-mas presents.

On the first day of Christmas, insiders gave to me a Death Star spoiler for free.

great to see the scene that was most peoples imagined ending and one of the earliest spy spoilers being in "hard copy" im drooling to find what else he/she has in store if a spy called "final cut" ever pops by be sure to get the vcr handy heh heh heh
i still cant get any tarkin casting confirmations my source wont spill shit 2 me

Terns signature over at TFN is interesting.....

I hate to dampen the mood (because I, too, am excited about new spoilers), but the Death Star being in the movie, even as a skeleton in early construction, is just a BAD idea. The first Death Star takes 19 years to be constructed and get a test shot off - but the second is 3/4 completed WITH a working laser in 3 years? I know it would probably go faster the second time, due to experience, but THAT much faster?

It just doesn't make any sense.

In any case, I'm not saying I don't believe this spoiler. It's been reported for a long time and it's most likely in. I just don't like it, personally.

Anyway, bring on dem spoilers.

You are assuming Palps wants to build it as fast as possible. He spends the next 20 years consolidating his power. He's very patient.

I used to be in agreement with this, but lately it's this argument that makes no sense. It makes about as much sense as, say, the United States waiting until after they'd used their first nuke to start building a second one.

The first Death Star is just that -- the first one. But I haven't seen anything in the films to suggest that the Empire ever intended to use only one at a time. The Empire doesn't collapse after ROTJ because they've run out of Death Stars, after all, but because Palpatine and Vader are dead.

Nah, what doesn't make any sense is that they were building it for 19 years, but nevertheless Han Solo never got wind of it.

You´re all assuming the political environments during the construction of each DS are the same when they´re not. Palpatine doesn´t rule the galaxy automatically after ROTS, he still has to compromise with the Senate. When the second DS is made, he is in control and can do whatever he wants. (Probably fucking over alot of system budgets just to get it finished much quicker.)

This nice bit of info, didn't Pudu or someone else say something about this?? I can't wait for more. Happy Holidays and big ups to Darth Plagueis!

The Pez dispensers pretty much confirmed that the Death Star would be in Ep3, although perhaps not in its finished form.



That's no moon. IT'S DEATH PEZ!

What a goofy looking Sidious Pez. He looks like one of the Brain guys from Mst3k.

I'm thinking that the 2nd was started shortly after the first as well and took longer to build because it was larger than the original. There's something in the fact that there's 2 Skywalker kids and 2 Death Stars that seems to fit really well in my brain.

While I agree that it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility that Palpatine would WANT to build more than one at once, there IS in fact something that refutes that. You'll have to excuse my memory for exact quotes, but the opening scroll of ROTJ says "little does Luke know, the Empire has secretly begun construction on a second Death Star." That would seem to imply that the second one was begun AFTER ANH. It may just be semantics, and I'm 100% sure that that scroll was written long before Lucas ever gave any serious thought to the end of Episode III. But that's not an excuse, in my opinion.

Like I said, I completely understand how building a second one would be a quicker process. But 15 years quicker is ridiculous. And that doesn't have anything to do with the political climate. Regardless of the Senate's existence, Palpatine is still the Emperor in both cases and can do WHATEVER he wants.

In any case, a two second shot of a baby Death Star isn't going to ruin the movie for me, obviously. I just want the best continuity possible.

But 15 years quicker is ridiculous.

Palpatine waits almost 20 years to dissolve the Senate. He's patient.

<Rattles present>
Cool! Sounds like a script!

I think he's saying that it would have been impossible to build the 2nd so quickly given the 1st took 19yrs to complete. I suppose technology could have advanced dramatically in those 21 years. And Palpatine didn't have a Senate to keep it hidden from after ANH, he could pour as much money and resources into as he wanted.

As usual,Tern's the boss.........

I simply can't wait.............!!!!

I reckon that the script is coming.......Yippee!!!

Yeah, that's pretty much it.

But forgetting that for a minute, let me address this:



Forget the Death Star building times for a second. Regardless of whether it takes a year or 19, why does he have to hide it? I don't understand why people think that the Senate still have some kind of power over him during ANH or at ANY point after ROTS. Hell, theoretically Palpatine could've started building the Death Star right after AOTC and the Senate couldn't have done a thing about it. They voted him total power. And last I checked, from that point on, he never gives it up.

Not to mention that most of the Senators are under the "spell" of the Sith and probably wouldn't care anyway. Its only Padme and her small group that oppose Palpatine's ascension.

In my opinion, Palpatine could blatantly advertise the construction of the Death Star and the Senate 1) wouldn't care and 2) wouldn't have the power to do anything about it even if they did care. The only thing they could possibly do to stop him is.... well...

Form a Rebellion. :p

I think when people talk about how 'quick' it was to build the second Death Star that they should consider that it wasn't finished by the time of ROTJ. It was probably about 60-70% done. The weapon system/super laser was complete, but the structure in general was not. It likely would have taken another movie for it to be completely built.

They likely also learned from building the first one to build the second a lot faster.

Yeah, I reckon the possibility of more Rebellion-aligned worlds is what compels Palpatine to keep the Senate around between RotS and ANH. There's already an anti-Imperial movement, he knows there's disaffected Senators like Bail Organa and Mon Mothma etc running around stirring people up against him. Doesn't the crawl in ANH say the Rebels have made their first strike and pinched the DS plans just before the film started? If the rest of the Galaxy found out he was a Sith Lord working to create a weapon that destroys entire planets, it'd be total anarchy. So I think he's not worried about the Rebellion as it stands, he's worried about it getting bigger.

Like that guy with the bad ADR in ANH says: "Holding her (Leia) is dangerous. If word gets out it could generate sympathy for the Rebellion in the Senate"

I don't know WHY this subject warrents so much confusion. As stated previously above by many, maybe the second DS had its' Genesis at approximately the same time as the first DS or soon after. Emperor Palpatine couldn't just unveil the DS, or even the preperations and plans to the Senate right off the bat. It would be completely uncharacteristic of the Dark Lord of the Sith if he did. Remember, his rise to power was not based upon a blatent show of force or technological might: It was steeped from his Stealth and Guile. I'm sure he didn't desire anyone, let alone the citizens of the Republic or the Senate, to be able to foresee the coming events he was so diligently crafting and manipulating given the chance. When he became Supreme Chancellor, why didn't he just declare himself Emperor then? Because there we inconsolible obstacles that needed to be eliminated. To be specific, the Jedi Knights. Perhaps the same is to be said of the earlier parts of the time between Episodes III-IV? We know of the Delegation of 2000, and if I were to make an educated guess, there will still be remnants of their ideals in both the political and social worlds. I could be wrong, but I do believe that many in the Galaxy do not agree with the Chancellor after ROTS, similar to differences between Conservatives and Liberals in our reality. And look at the marvelous advancements taken place in the last 20 years with our crude technology. Does it stand to reason that evolutionary leaps and bounds could take place in the Star Wars universe as well? When you rebuild an 8 cylinder engine for the first time, does it make sense that it will obviously take you longer the first time than the second time you attempt it? Yes.

Darth Plagueis the Wise is what it says. hmmmmmmmmm

Yeah, I remembered that sometime after walking away from my computer earlier today. I don't think we should put it past Lucas to retcon those lines right out of the ROTJ scroll with the next "special edition" (for that matter, I couldn't swear to the fact that they're still in the current version), but it's a good point nevertheless.

There is also the question of why Palpatine would need a Death Star before the Rebellion breaks out anyway. It's possible that what we see at the end of ROTS is a weapon that's intended mainly as a deterrent, being built at a leisurely pace, and that construction is accelerated and given high priority when the Rebellion begins.

I'm sure that someone will write an EU novel "explaining" it all sometime next year. I just hope it isn't Kevin Anderson.

There's a million ways to argue why the death star takes less time to be built a second time around...but bottom line, it doesn't make a difference. Fact of the matter is, the death star WILL be in ROTS in some form and the debate as to how it takes longer to build than the second one is irrelevant to it's use as a plot device to connect the trilogies.

and in ROTJ, the scroll says "construction on a new battlestation even more powerful than the first dreaded death star". One can make the argument the second death star is build in response to the imminent threat of the Alliance, rather than being used as a tool of fear to 'keep the local systems in line'

After reading the posts here and giving the matter some thought, I don't think seeing the early stages of construction on the first Death Star in ROTS will pose any sort of continuity problems for the saga.

Like Vanda, I initially thought it would be a bad idea seeing the DS, as it would pose a large discrepancy between construction times for the DS and DS2. However, others have made the point that in ROTJ, the DS2 is not yet complete... visual observation would seem to indicate it is only about 60% complete. Since ROTJ takes place 4 years after ANH, this would mean the DS2, from start to completion, would probably have taken 7 years (assuming an average completion rate of 15% per year).

That being said, I don't think it's altogether implausible that construction time for the DS2 could be reduced to slightly less than half the time it took to construct the first DS. The main reasons for this are:

1) there is a 19 year gap for technology to improve
2) Palpatine undoubtedly has more resources upon which to draw while constructing the DS2 (with the Empire being as powerful as it is at this point)
3) Palpatine no longer has to keep it secret and can therefore divert as many resources as possible to expedite the construction process (the scroll in ANH does say the plans were "secret", therefore leading me to believe that construction of the DS was being done quietly with neither the Senate nor the galaxy at large being aware of it. This being the case, Palpatine could not dump countless sums of money into the project for fear it would be discovered. Rather it is more likely he quietly channelled funds into the project in such a way as to not draw the attention of outside parties).
4) Having built the original DS would have provided the engineers a template from which to construct the DS2 more quickly (i.e., the DS2 wasn't being constructed "blindly" as was the case with the first DS).

Anyway, this is just my opinion on the matter... just wanted to provide some rational for the DS being in ROTS, should this spoiler prove to be true.

Who is to say that the ANH DS is the first one? Or that the ROTS DS is as large as the ANH one? They could be two different DS's.

I think DS2 was started after the first DS went 'breasts up' over Yavin. It was a total rush job as Palpy sent first Vader to oversee construction and bring it on schedule, and then turned up himself to ensure it got operational asap. That proved to be his undoing,wether Vader hurled him into a reactor core or not,Lando blew that DS2 up.

As for keeping the construction a secret, besides risk of the project being destroyed by dis-satisfied Republicans,Palpy intended the DS to be an instrument of fear. If all knew of its existence early,Palpys enemies would multiply quickly. As I understand it,Palpy is a bit of a hero to the masses in ROTS,why disabuse them of that notion too soon?

I wonder if this will be the last scene in ROTS. I hope not. I hope it will be Obi-Wan leaving baby Luke to the Larses for a more hopeful ending.

Perhaps it would be more dramatic to leave us feeling there were no hope at all at the end of ROTS? I think so, anyway - think it would tie better in to the theme of "A New Hope" in episode IV... if this is the case, then the last shot should probably be on the star destryoyer inspecting the death star...

either ending is good.


Both scenes would make for a spectacular final shot.

What would be cooler is if in the Star Destroyer ending, the camera moved to outside the ship and moved away from the bridge ala ESB.

Who knows.

He said ROTS, not ROTJ.

There's nothing to say that DS1 takes 19 years to build anyway. They could have built it in, say, 10 years and merely waited for the political situation to become more favourable (dissolution of the Senate).

The whole thing could simply have been hidden for a few years and if so there is no real disparity with DS2

There's always the possibility that the DeathStar was originally built as a space-station with reasonable fire-power, but held thousands of tie-fighters etc, and a few hundred thousand troops.

Perhaps 10 years later it was upgraded with the anti-planet weapon.

However, that theory really doesn't make sense as if the Empire had been using it for 10 years then surely Han, Chewie and Ben would have recognized it in ANH.

Of course the final scene from ROTS might effectively be years after the rest of the movie - showing the state of the Empire between ROST and ANH.

Oh, I do agree that my theory is wrong. In ATOC they describe the plans as a "weapon", and not a space-station, or troop carrier. I do think it was designed as an anti-planet weapon from the outset.

I suppose it really could have taken 19 years to build, and of course the possibility does exist that they did start constructing a second DeathStar long before the first one was destroyed (explaining why a second DeathStar appeared so quickly between ANH and ROTJ). (which fits in with some of the points made above - ie why only build one of them?)

Do you know that from the movies or the EU ? I don't remember them mentioning size in the movies.

You could argue that it would take far less time to construct the second DS because they had learned from constructing the first one. Or that they put more resources into building the second one as they knew the Rebellion was increasing in size.

edit

But I suppose the real reason behind including a partially constructed DeathStar at the end of ROTS is just to help tie the movies together, while possibly ignoring the obvious timeframe issues.

My main problem with the construction of the DS1 is who constructd it? We know the Geonosians have the plans and that they they make the droid armies but there is no sign of any aliens in the Empire in the OT. Is Palpy racist? I remember reading somewhere that the reason there are no aliens in the Empires ranks would be explained at some point but there doesn't seem to be any sign of an explanation so far. Perhaps it takes so long to complete because the Geonosians don't build it,perhaps Palpy fecks them off and gets the Empire to finish construction.

I built it, it took me a while to get there and back.
Sorry, I had the shits during the middle phase, hence the length of time it took to get done.

good work CoGro,nice job,I liked the second one best,minimalist,nice


Hope your bum feels better soon

Tern,

Talk about how Vader walks off the bridge in apparent disgust.

props to Big Lou for his avatar, Jedi Mind Tricks - Legacy of Blood...classic