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by **Lord Seafood** » September 16th 2004 7:50 pm

After watching that Return of Vader clip... am I the only one in thinking the Vader costume looks weird and wrong somehow?

The helmet seems kind of squat, like it hangs down too low over the eyes and isn't the correct proportion to the OT costume.

I don't mean in a subtle way only geeks notice, but like... it looks noticeably wrong. Like a fanmade costume.

by **Vanda** » September 16th 2004 10:55 pm

Maybe it looks 19 years older than we're used to it looking.

Personally, I think that Vader looks slightly different between ANH and ESB, and that's only a three year difference. So I have no problem with ever so slight differences (which I don't see, myself) in the 19 year span between ROTS and ANH.

by **Lord Seafood** » September 17th 2004 12:57 am

I guess that's a good way of justifying it (using the fiction of the Universe)... maybe I can live with that explanation.

by **vanillazinger** » September 17th 2004 10:40 am

Also, the original Vader suit looked a bit silly too. You need the whole costume, plus proper setup, framing and James Earl Jones, to make him really cool.

by **rhonderoo** » September 17th 2004 2:53 pm

Speaking of JEJ, I found it comforting that he was interviewed on the clip.

by **pjvader** » September 17th 2004 5:32 pm

it all loooked slightly wrong until the final on set shot which looked great, i have a cheap $50 vader helmet and that looks perfect, no idea why they didnt just remould some from the archives instead of starting from scrtach! maybe hayden has masseev heed!

by **Projbalance** » September 17th 2004 11:46 pm

Actually it's the other way around. They needed to make a new costume because Hayden is much smaller than David Prowse. They had to make a new costume that would sit right on Hayden while still making him look massive like Vader in the OT. I guess the real question is, why use Hayden instead of someone with the physical size of Prowse? Perhaps it was Haydens final reward for playing Anakin. I know I'd be pissed if I'd spent 4 years playing Anakin and then NOT getting to be Vader in the end.

by **Sidious** » September 18th 2004 5:16 am

I think the costume looks just fine........Hayden is deffenetly fit to play Vader and the suit is looking perfectly on him! David Prowse wasnt that mutch bigger in ANH, than Hayden is in ROTS.Remember about 20 years has passed between ROTS and ANH! So Vader will have grown some muscles since ROTS.... not so mutch that it is really visible but enought to see maby a slightly difference.

by **theshakl** » September 18th 2004 2:04 pm

I also think he looks weird in that shot where he looks at Palpatine....

something..he looks weird..but then in the shot where Lucas tells him" takes us back to the old days" he looks normal...but i don't know...maybe its just that i'm looking at in on th ecomputer..and it looks..dark...i hope so

by **Faid** » September 18th 2004 2:25 pm

Remember when Hayden was supposed to bulk up between Episode 2 and 3?

That didn't happen did it?

by **E_CHU_TA!** » September 18th 2004 5:20 pm

ROTS skips ahead one Episode. Hayden’s costume resembles the ESB/ROTJ version more than the ANH suit:

http://www.starwarsdotcom.com/star_wars ... ader28.jpg
http://www.starwarsdotcom.com/star_wars ... ader26.jpg

by **theshakl** » September 18th 2004 5:56 pm

yeah that is the picture that i think he looks like vader..but in the one ..where he is..with.the emperor...looks kinda weird..

by **offspringboy** » September 19th 2004 7:16 pm

Yup, thanks to the download that I was given (yep just couldn't wait the 12 hours for the DVD

) I also noticed the strange squashed look of the actual mask, and that is because the mask is smaller than the original, but the helmet is the same size as OT. So it looks 'a little' bit outta proportion. But no biggie, it's Vader for f sake, thankfully it still looks like him and not a complete new model. Brought back a lot of memories of seeing him on the big screen in OT as a kid, scared me sh*tless, can't wait.

by **Jedi Master Matt** » September 19th 2004 9:50 pm

Oh my gawd. Teh Vader suit aint perfect. Teh movie will now teh sux.

Seriously, suited Vader is only in two scenes. Big deal if it isn't EXACTLY the same. I'm sure with the lighting, music, & JEJ voice - every thing will be ok. You'll be too busy wetting yourself from the DUEL and what Vader is about to unleash in his fury.

Hayden deserves to wear the suit. He's earned it. I'm glad they made it for him.

Besides, this topic is the same as bitching about saber colors. BFD. I love Star Wars to death, but Star Wars fans creep me out with conversations about minor stuff like this. They can suspend disbelief with explosions and sound in space - but, continuity issues - NEVER!

by **E_CHU_TA!** » September 20th 2004 6:00 pm

Traiken wrote:I think they should've gone with the fabric over the shoulder plates for RotS. Not only is it consistent with ANH (though it doesn't have to be with the time gap), it also resembles Anakin's Jedi outfit more.

The connections are intentional. Anakin’s AOTC robes were based on ANH Vader’s cape and tunic (i.e. no sleeves and with the cloth draped down in the front).

http://www.starwarsdotcom.com/star_wars/gallery/characters/pics/ani/aotc_ani1.jpg

I would add that the “cloth” on the ANH suit also resembles Darth Maul’s outfits. To me, the ANH suit looks more like a PT version of Vader.

http://www.starwarsdotcom.com/star_wars/gallery/characters/pics/maul/tpm_maul6.jpg

Jedi Master Matt wrote:Oh my gawd. Teh Vader suit aint perfect. Teh movie will now teh sux.

Seriously, suited Vader is only in two scenes. Big deal if it isn't EXACTLY the same. I'm sure with the lighting, music, & JEJ voice - every thing will be ok. You'll be too busy wetting yourself from the DUEL and what Vader is about to unleash in his fury. !

No one said the film would be ruined.

I agree that the Vader scenes will turn out just fine and probably 99.9% of the audience will accept the ROTS suit and Hayden.

I would also add that the other outfits in the film look great. Overall, the Costume Department has done a great job with ROTS.

I just think it’s too bad they only did an average job on the most important costume in the PT.

Jedi Master Matt wrote:Besides, this topic is the same as bitching about saber colors.

Duly noted.

by **anakin_vaderwithin** » October 24th 2004 3:26 pm

Hayden looks great in the Vader costume. I think people are getting a little to picky about the way it looks. Just let every thing play out and I'm sure people will be satisfied. I give props to Hayden for looking amazing in the vader costume he had to gain lots of weight to fit right in the costume. YOU GO BOY :heavymetal:

by **Tim Lehrbach** » October 24th 2004 4:20 pm

The issue for me isn't the Vader suit, it's how believable will a thin/average bulit young man, come off wearing a big intimidating costume.

I think Hayden looks pretty good for the role in ROTS, how believable the transformation will come off is another issue.

In the end it will probably be a little bit of a stretch, but it will be acceptable enough.

I guess ever since the OT I envisioned Anakin much differently then the way he's depicted in the prequels.

What's done is done, the Vader costume looks fine to me..hopfully Hayden acts the part well.

by **Eye_H8_U** » October 27th 2004 2:12 am

Hayden will own this movie- but not because of the scenes of him in the ironlung suit. It will be because of the scenes before the suit but after he goes dark side and is given the monkier Darth Vader. In these scenes he will be an UberSith leading the assault upon the old Jedi order and scattering/destroying their remnants. It is these scenes and "the duel" that I am most looking forward to.

That and Yoda cutting the cheese! :lol:

by **Ktulu** » December 30th 2004 3:43 pm

Is this an EPIII Vader?

http://www.rebelscum.com/comics/swc3ad.jpg

by **Faid** » December 30th 2004 3:52 pm

What I don't understand is why Hayden insisted to wear the suit.

This guys already has bad vibes in the fan community let alone the mainstream and then decides he NEEDS to wear it?

What the fuck

by **kerouac777** » December 30th 2004 3:56 pm

Personally, I wouldn't give half a shit what the fan community thought if I had the opportunity to wear the suit.

Besides.. who, post 1985, doesn't have a bad rep in the fan community?

by **foxbatkllr** » December 30th 2004 4:01 pm

Screw the whiners. Hayden is perfect as Anakin and deserves to wear the Vader suit. He knows it, George knows it, and the rest of the crew knows it. You will know it too after ROTS comes out.

by **Agrippa** » December 31st 2004 1:07 am

Faid wrote:What I don't understand is why Hayden insisted to wear the suit.

This guys already has bad vibes in the fan community let alone the mainstream and then decides he NEEDS to wear it?

What the fuck

...speak for yourself dude...i and a couple of friends of mine are rabid fans...and he doesn't rub me the wrong way no-how...

by **ManaByte** » December 31st 2004 1:14 am

With the Vader suit looking one way in ROTS, ESB, and ROTJ; I wouldn't be surprised if Lucas went in and digitally altered the ANH suit for the 30th Anniversary to match the others much in the same way they fixed Han's clothes in the "I know" fix on the DVDs.

by **kremzike** » December 31st 2004 1:15 am

I'd seen that image before, but that's the largest scan i've seen of it. Excellent.

And, I am thrilled that Hayden gets to wear the suit. I am very happy with him as Anakin Skywalker and I think it's fitting that he gets to wear the Vader suit. The only other person I would've felt good about being in the suit is David Prowse, but i'm happy that Hayden gets to do it and I know i'd want to if I were him.

manabyte (and your avatar rules), I hope you don't mean "he was wearing the vest in that shot and they digitally removed it for the DVDs" because that ws a hot topic here a while back and Fatboy provided this proof that he was not wearing a vest at all.

http://www.wallhacker.com/MFonly/han.avi

Which can be found in this thread: http://millenniumfalcon.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1933

by **ManaByte** » December 31st 2004 1:34 am

kremzike wrote:manabyte (and your avatar rules), I hope you don't mean "he was wearing the vest in that shot and they digitally removed it for the DVDs" because that ws a hot topic here a while back and Fatboy provided this proof that he was not wearing a vest at all.

http://www.wallhacker.com/MFonly/han.avi

Which can be found in this thread: http://millenniumfalcon.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1933

Well, they did digitally fix it (it wasn't just cleanup from Lowry that did it) for the DVD so that it looked white in the closeup.

Either way, I wouldn't be surprised if Lucas altered the ANH suit. He already fiddled with Vader's voice in ANH for the 1997 SE as it was previously more "tinny" than in ESB and ROTJ.

by **Dogg Thang** » December 31st 2004 5:06 am

What I still find a little odd, from the dvd, is why they had to create the helmet from scratch. They talked about the reference they used and it seemed they were basically guessing its proportions and sizes. And yet there must be plenty of full 3D props that they could use - either original props or some of the excellent replicas that have been produced over the years. They could have pulled apart any one of them and taken casts then worked the inside to fit Hayden's head.

I'm sure their final one wil probably look fine on film but I would have thought there were easier ways, especially seeing how fans in general would be quite unforgiving if it looked wrong.

Dogg.

by **sparklingjedi** » December 31st 2004 11:59 am

Agreeing with eye_h8_u

The Duel, capital "T" and capital "D" is what I'm looking forward too. I don't much care that the helmet looks a little different.

You hear on the bonus DVD with the OT DVD Set about the Helmet....that the old one was assymetrical and they took this opportunity to make it more symetrical.

I never liked the helmet of ANH as much as the others. But it don't much matter.

The Duels will rock. Hayden looks pretty sharp for the part this time. He did okay for it in AOTC with what was given him anyway.

by **ManaByte** » December 31st 2004 1:48 pm

KCWM wrote:Mana...since we know there wasn't a vest and he was wearing a white shirt to begin with, what did they digitially fix in the han shot?

Did they brighten the white? What exactly are you referring to?

Not sure if they brightened the white or adjusted the color balance itself, but yeah it was basically adjusted so it didn't look like the black jacket anymore.

by **CoGro** » January 17th 2005 12:00 pm

I figured the best place for this would be here...

rots-making_of_jacket.jpg

the back of the 'Making of' book has a behind the scenes pic of Vader. Many were pissed about his height claiming that a 6'1 Hayden would look too small to be Vader....well, here's proof that Vader looks just as big in ROTS.

by **Kyle** » January 17th 2005 10:17 pm

The Vader suit Hayden is wearing is significantly different from the original suit in this one respect: when they consulted the original helmet, they discovered that it was not symetrical in regards to the left side being an exact mirror image of the right side. There were noticeable differences, so they decided that they would hand sculpt only ONE side of the new helmet, digitally scan it in, have a computer program REVERSE it, have the computer fashion the reversed side, then have it touched up by hand, graft it to the original half-sculpt, mold it, and then cast the version that we're going to see in Episode III.

It's the only SYMETRICAL Vader mask in all the films.

One can watch its creation on the "behind the scenes" disk that came with the DVD releases of the original Star Wars trilogy.

Whew!

by **TK432** » January 18th 2005 1:05 am

i cant stand the new vader suit.

as a vader owner (www.darthlarsen.com) i tired to make my suit as ESB screen acurate as possible(and am still chaning it to get it as far as i can)..

They made the new suit a hybried of all the other suits(it looks like).. and messed up the helmet alot.. the other helms where 2 tone colored. this one is all black.. and hayden is way to short(shorter then me, and im still shorter then prowse). the paint job they are using for the shoulders was not used until ESB,, they should have used the ANH style. or left it all black, and cut the sholder bells off, instead of all being one piece..

there just so much stuff i think they did wrong. But it only the suit, that we only see for the last 5 minutes. but have been waiting over 20 years to see.

enough of my crap.

Hopefully it will look better on screen,

by **Lord Seafood** » January 18th 2005 8:40 am

I wouldn't say it's irrelevant... it IS a major character's costume. An iconic character, too.

by **limak** » January 18th 2005 9:15 am

TK432 wrote:.. and hayden is way to short(shorter then me, and im still shorter then prowse).

I dunno, he looks pretty tall in the pic at the bottom right hand corner.

http://www.theforce.net/books/newspics/rots-making_of_jacket.jpg

by **Lord Seafood** » January 18th 2005 9:18 am

limak wrote:
TK432 wrote:.. and hayden is way to short(shorter then me, and im still shorter then prowse).

I dunno, he looks pretty tall in the pic at the bottom right hand corner.

http://www.theforce.net/books/newspics/rots-making_of_jacket.jpg

Compared to Lucas? Lucas is a midget!

by **limak** » January 18th 2005 9:42 am

yeah, and the 3 other people behind him are midgets too. shit, vader even has to bend down a bit. he's fucking tall enough.

by **offspringboy** » January 18th 2005 10:01 am

Shesh, stop with the complaints.
If you watch AOTC, did you see that Hayden dwafs Ian when they talk to each other, also, the elevatpr scene with Ewan?
They somehow digitally make Hayden look taller tyhroughout that movie, as Hayden is almost the same height as Ewan and Ian isn't much shorter either, but in AOTC Hayden looked like he could pee on their heads.
So, why worry about ROTS, they'll do the exact same thing, and as for the costume looking different, it doesn't look different, we have been seeing below shots looking up at Vader's face, not direct on like the movies. So of course it is going to look odd.

by **Kyle** » January 18th 2005 10:57 am

TK432,

Nice job on the Vader suit. Did you make the mold and cast the Vader helmet yourself? How long has it taken for you to craft what you have so far?

by **TK432** » January 18th 2005 12:34 pm

the helmet was a recast of a Don Post Deluxe, and currectly painted..

started in june of last year, and still working in it... cant tell you what i spent, cuz i dont want to count that high..

but enough about me.

I think(and hope) that on the screen they will make him look better then the still shots we are seeing.. if he is in a darker room, or on the bridge of a ship, where it isnt as bright. he should look awesome.

by **Dr.FunkyPants** » January 18th 2005 12:38 pm

I think the new Vader suit looks fine. Of course it had to be re-shaped a little bit in the mask, since a different actor is wearing the suit this time. It will look fine when the finished product is released.

What bothers me are those fucking pictures of Palpatine's fat ass.

:mad:

by **Obi** » January 18th 2005 3:32 pm

I have to agree with the fat palps comment. Its obviously not a pic that is intended to be released, but yet never in any of the movies is he FAT. I thought the dark side was eating away at him. Maybe he's eating the dark side. Too bad Jared wasnt there to stop him.

by **Slug** » January 18th 2005 5:15 pm

I love the new suit, it looks really good on HC.

Now a question in regards to the height of Hayden compared to Prowse,
with Anakin losing a leg & an arm or more in the duel with Obi-Wan & now having mechanical replacements attatched, wouldnt he or the Emperor be able to have the new legs or any other body parts extended to give him a more imposing look? Vader being more machine now than man could maybe have longer legs put on? With that kind of technology available wouldnt that be possible?

I dont know for sure but just a thought.

by **Slug** » January 18th 2005 5:27 pm

I mean if they can attatch new mechanical limbs with all the little nerve endings fully connected to the rest of the body, I think a simple extension of a few inches would be no big deal.

Go...Go... gadget legs!!

by **dylan** » January 18th 2005 5:30 pm

TK432 wrote:i cant stand the new vader suit.

as a vader owner (www.darthlarsen.com) i tired to make my suit as ESB screen acurate as possible(and am still chaning it to get it as far as i can)..

They made the new suit a hybried of all the other suits(it looks like).. and messed up the helmet alot.. the other helms where 2 tone colored. this one is all black.. and hayden is way to short(shorter then me, and im still shorter then prowse). the paint job they are using for the shoulders was not used until ESB,, they should have used the ANH style. or left it all black, and cut the sholder bells off, instead of all being one piece..

You do realize the amazing irony of your post, right?

Tell me - why are the ANH, ESB & ROTJ suits all different, yet entirely acceptable? By your logic, shouldn't they all look like the ANH suit? Or is this simply more "fuck the prequels" rhetoric?

by **TK432** » January 18th 2005 5:38 pm

the point is.. they made the suit looks more like ESB and ROTJ. where if anything it should look more like ANH. for ROTS is before ANH.

the suit could evolve, but this suit. evolved before it evolved.

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