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by **Ternian** » January 27th 2005 5:57 am

http://www.millenniumfalcon.com

by **BearaceDougie** » January 27th 2005 5:58 am

Oo Thanks Tern

Wowowo

However, this action is not welcome by all members of the Jedi Council - some who believe they should wait for Yoda's return. Mace commands Shaak-Ti to begin to prepare for the defence of the Temple against a possible retaliation attack.

ahh.. Retaliation attack by "SOME" jedi on council.. am i reading this wrong aye?

by **femme01** » January 27th 2005 6:08 am

Suddenly, Anakin enters. He's in deep shock. He gives Mace the truth: Palpatine is Sidious!

So Anakin DOES tell Mace.

Anakin betrays Sidious there.

by **BearaceDougie** » January 27th 2005 6:10 am

ahh he Betrays Sid and nearly kills him TWICE.. so when is the next time he nearly kills him?

by **Ternian** » January 27th 2005 6:12 am

Anakin is let go by Sidious...Sidious is using Anakin....oooh he is just the evilest Chancellor EVER.

by **femme01** » January 27th 2005 6:12 am

ahh he Betrays Sid and nearly kills him TWICE.. so when is the next time he nearly kills him?

At the end, I assume. When Vader has his Force Fury tantrum and Sidious must protect himself.

EDIT: Thank you Ternian! For all your wonderful info!

We appreciate it.

Hugs and kisses.

by **BearaceDougie** » January 27th 2005 6:15 am

Haha thanks Tern

this is a pretty interesting spoiler,

im still confused with the last couple lines.. about the retaliation...

by **Ternian** » January 27th 2005 6:20 am

Basically, some members of the Jedi think Mace should wait for Yoda to return before going after Sidious.

by **BearaceDougie** » January 27th 2005 6:22 am

these 'conflicts' just verbal.. or do they get a bit physical

?

by **Jinh Warrior** » January 27th 2005 6:29 am

It's all been planned by Sidious , Obiwan not being there , it's like he's psychic ( he has forseen it all) in touch with the future , ultimate arrogance or both?

Thanks Ternian this kept me busy for months , now it's clear(almost at least)

by **Ternian** » January 27th 2005 6:37 am

Um...the last report was brought together by two sources. This is now one complete source. You'll see how the confusion was easy to make...

by **Insert Username** » January 27th 2005 6:46 am

Samhain: nobody is holding the back of your head to a computer screen and forcing your eyelids apart with toothpicks to read these spoilers. If you're here to bitch and moan, fuck off now cause you won't last long.

by **Wire** » January 27th 2005 6:46 am

It did say in the other piece about the two sources. i guess this fits with anakin turning up after being told by Mace to stay where he was. Mace seems to have his doubts over Anakin with this, due to the amount of time and influence Palps had, plus he didn't strike him down at the first chance, given Anakin's normal impulsive nature.

by **BearaceDougie** » January 27th 2005 6:47 am

i still wanna know what happens between mace and these other jedi.. like details etc

by **femme01** » January 27th 2005 6:55 am

Insert Username wrote:Samhain: nobody is holding the back of your head to a computer screen and forcing your eyelids apart with toothpicks to read these spoilers. If you're here to bitch and moan, fuck off now cause you won't last long.

Brilliantly said. :lol:

by **elevendayempire** » January 27th 2005 7:05 am

I dunno, I'm not too keen on this. I preferred the version we had in the original reports, where Mace & co only think Palpatine is in league with Sidious...

Still, I guess I'll see how it plays out on screen.

SG

by **Dogg Thang** » January 27th 2005 7:13 am

Nah, I love how Anakin is the one who turns him in. He is so divided. Makes for much more drama than him simply turning 'evil'. Good stuff. I really hope this all plays out well on screen as opposed to it happening while they sit on coucil chairs chatting about it.

Dogg.

by **ZenDeadly** » January 27th 2005 8:06 am

BearaceDougie wrote:i still wanna know what happens between mace and these other jedi.. like details etc

I'm guessing it's not that much, and that it probably takes up all of two or three lines. Someone else probably asks whether they should wait for Yoda... and Mace tells them to shut their traps.

I don't think the "retaliation" has is connected with the Jedi disagreeing... it's just what comes next. (i.e. After it's decided that Mace is going to arrest him NOW instead of later, Mace tells Shaak-Ti to prepare for a retaliation... from people who will be pissed that Palps was arrested. Not from other Jedi.)

Of course, I'm just basing this off of a spoiler, but that's how I read it, and that seems to make more sense than Jedi fighting each other.

By the way, this has been driving me crazy, bearacedougie... who's the lady in your avatar?

by **Artmaul** » January 27th 2005 8:50 am

Samhain: nobody is holding the back of your head to a computer screen and forcing your eyelids apart with toothpicks to read these spoilers. If you're here to bitch and moan, fuck off now cause you won't last long

Why wait? Ban now. We all know where this is going.

by **pjvader** » January 27th 2005 8:53 am

i gotta say that as much as i love ep1+2 (and i do!) these little rumblings in their own rights seem to piss all over the contents of both previous movies! this really is going to b the movie everyone wants it to be(trust me!

) although i know everything that is going happen i still get more excited for it by the day!!
i bet the EU(which i dont follow yet, i was waiting till all the movies were gone

) will run amok with the exploits of plagueis!

by **vanillazinger** » January 27th 2005 9:07 am

So finally we have the crucial moment. Everything before this scene has been buttering Anakin up for the reveal. One of my biggest concerns has always been the stretch of time between this moment and scene 99, Mace's death. Ternian's told us the sequence of scenes between here and there. What do you think, is there enough time to make this work?

by **rhonderoo** » January 27th 2005 9:22 am

I just can't believe he didn't take Anakin with him. He left him there to stew. Mace is a dumb ass.

Good job!!!

Thanks, Tern.

by **nomad** » January 27th 2005 9:28 am

im somewhat disappointed that mace impulsively decides to arrest palps without fruther investigation or force pondering considering a great deal of the jedi councils decisions are made via group discussion and force pondering.

by **stan Marsh** » January 27th 2005 9:32 am

scrotus wrote:so to follow the progression...

Palps owns up to being Sidious to Anakin.
Anakin runs to tell Mace.
Mace takes the posse to arrest Palps.
They fight. Palps owns all over them.
Anakin shows up and Palps is all "i'm all weak and helpless. look what the jedi did to me"
Mace goes to take him down and then Anakin steps in.

Is that right? So, my question is, what makes Anakin change his mind in such a small timeframe that he betrays the jedi when minutes before he was going to kill Palps himself. Seems odd to me.

he just can't bear to lose padme!!!!! people want to think that attatchment is ok for a jedi, but it clearly is not. If he wasn't attatched he would realize saving her may or may not be out of his power but saving mace and killing someone evil was in his power. He chooses to cling on to the hope sidious will save his wife and chooses in the flash of the pan evil forever.

by **dylan** » January 27th 2005 9:35 am

scrotus wrote:So, my question is, what makes Anakin change his mind in such a small timeframe that he betrays the jedi when minutes before he was going to kill Palps himself. Seems odd to me.

Because Palps can "stop people from dying". He doesn't want that secret to die.

by **VT-16** » January 27th 2005 10:10 am

Anakin has premonitions of Padme dying, Palpatine may be the only one to know of a way to prevent it. If he didn´t have that, he´d be killed. Anakin´s simply using him, while not being aware of himself being used. And he already dislikes the Jedi by this point. Not that hard to see how he could turn against them.

He thinks he´s a pseudo-Sidious, using others to get what he wants. He isn´t stupid but he gets fooled just as everyone else, including Sidious´ own underlings.

:cool:

by **Oski** » January 27th 2005 11:24 am

nomad wrote:im somewhat disappointed that mace impulsively decides to arrest palps without fruther investigation or force pondering considering a great deal of the jedi councils decisions are made via group discussion and force pondering.

Just read "Shatterpoint". Mace loves to play police, especially singlehandedly and against long odds. Arresting very dangerous and mighty people is sort of a hobby of him in Shatterpoint. This book is really a good preparation for Mace's role in RotS, explaining his thinking, acting and his brilliance with the lightsaber, making him the only one who can whip Palpatine in a lightsaber battle so that Anakin must come to Palps rescue.

by **Dogg Thang** » January 27th 2005 11:37 am

Well I don't know EU, but he looks pretty uncomfortable with a lightsaber in Ep2. I assumed he was making up for that with brains or culinary skills.

Dogg.

by **Dogg Thang** » January 27th 2005 11:47 am

He has wild, yet slow, swings that look really uncontrolled. Compared with any other lightsaber wielder in the PT, he looks positively clumsy to me. Just my perception though.

Dogg.

by **MasterJed** » January 27th 2005 12:11 pm

I have to say that SLJ did not impress me with his 'light saber skills' in EP 2. He looked kinda.......stiff and ungainly to me. Hopefully Nick Gillard(is that his name?) will have SLJ do Mace Windu saber skills justice in EP 3.

by **Zeal** » January 27th 2005 12:35 pm

Thanks for the explanation. It's clear at this point that Anakin is more conflicted than I previously thought.

by **Vrolokus** » January 27th 2005 1:34 pm

Was the line "You can explain the difference when he's dead" from Mace to Anakin ever confirmed as real dialogue? Because I was thinking that maybe Anakin assumed Mace & co. would just arrest Palpatine. When Mace looks ready to kill him (thus Anakin loses access to his Sith knowledge to save Padme), that's what finally makes him step in.

As far as the "retaliation" is concenred, I'm sure Mace means from Palpatine's supporters and, more importantly, his army - the clones. There's no way he means retaliation from fellow jedi.

by **Oski** » January 27th 2005 1:38 pm

This brings me back to one central question that has already been answered several times, but always with contradictions, so that I wish - no, I beg - for a definitive, final answer from Ternian:

1. Does Sidious fake his defeat against Mace?

2. In slightly other words: If Anakin had not interfered, would Mace have been able to kill Sidious?

In all the spoilers so far, in all the different wordings of the same scene, I never found a clear, definite answer to these qustions. It's always described sort of ambigous.

by **Vrolokus** » January 27th 2005 1:42 pm

I imagine it might be ambiguous in the movie, too. I mean, I was always unclear on exactly what Palpatine had in mind in ROTJ by encouraging Luke to attack him in his throne. What if Vader hadn't stepped in? Did he KNOW Vader would step in? Or did Vader step in to keep Palpatine from killing Luke?

What was Luke thinking when he threw his lightsaber away? Was his consciously trying to be vulnerable to arouse some compassion in Vader? Did he just not care, assuming the Death Star was going to get blown up anyway?

by **Oski** » January 27th 2005 2:02 pm

Vrolokus wrote:I imagine it might be ambiguous in the movie, too.

Luke throwing away his lightsaber was always unproblematic for me: I interpreted it as a simple "good or evil" thing, something like the fifth Commandement. Thou shalt not kill. Throw away your weapon, that's the ethical thing to do. Period. Whatever happens, happens.

But Palps staying calm while Luke starts to strike him down is much harder to explain, I agree.

There is room for the most frightening thought of all: Not even Lucas himself may know the truth :mrgreen:

by **dylan** » January 27th 2005 2:31 pm

"Your weapons...you will not need them."

by **nomad** » January 27th 2005 2:58 pm

what are the odds that palps using dark side force clouding planted anikans padme death dreams to entice fear in the young man!?!

by **Thundercracker** » January 27th 2005 3:41 pm

So what about the scene of Obi-Wan spying the Sidious/Grievous holo-communication on Utapau? Did George drop that idea in favor of Anakin learning the truth from Palps (which works better) or was that scene never true in the first place?

by **Ternian** » January 27th 2005 4:29 pm

1. Does Sidious fake his defeat against Mace?

No.

2. In slightly other words: If Anakin had not interfered, would Mace have been able to kill Sidious?

Mace nearly does kill Sidious. Which reminds me....Sidious must have two sabers...hmm.

by **kerouac777** » January 27th 2005 4:49 pm

Or, how Anakin can end up with a red one and Palpy still have one too, maybe?

by **kerouac777** » January 27th 2005 4:55 pm

Yeah, that's true.

by **cheese_boy** » January 27th 2005 5:05 pm

Bizarre. So if Mace can beat Sidious within an inch of his life, why the hell wouldn't Yoda be able to?

by **kremzike** » January 27th 2005 5:18 pm

Perhaps Mace whoops Sidious so bad because he's letting him, to bait Anakin further towards the Dark Side by making Anakin step in & save him. Then, with no need to hold back when he faces Yoda, Sidious can then really let loose.

by **Zeal** » January 27th 2005 5:18 pm

Wait, Mace almost kills Sidious and Yoda is defeated by him? Makes no sense to me. Yoda is clearly stronger in the force and in saber combat, as evident by his duel with Dooku. There has to be other factors in the Mace VS Sidious duel that have not yet been revealed.

Great spoilers, Tern. Keep them coming.

by **Obi** » January 27th 2005 5:21 pm

WTF? Maybe its the battles with the 3 other Jedi that tire Palps out. Or maybe he goes all roided out before his battle with Yoda so he's like all pumped up like the football players in those Under Armour commercials.

"We must protect this HOUSE!"

by **cheese_boy** » January 27th 2005 5:21 pm

I guess so, I just think it's going to be a tricky issue to get across in the course of the movie.

I think it's fair to say Yoda is assumed by pretty much everybody (i.e. the audience) to be /the/ Jedi - both in wisdom and fighting prowess.

by **Wrath Mania** » January 27th 2005 5:40 pm

It doesn't exactly make sense for Sidious to do his best against Mace, only to lose. Isn't the whole point of baiting Mace to his office is to get Anakn to help kill him?

by **femme01** » January 27th 2005 5:45 pm

Ternian.

Does Palp/Sidious have a saber hidden up the sleeves of his robe?

by **Oski** » January 27th 2005 5:46 pm

Ternian wrote:1. Does Sidious fake his defeat against Mace?

No.

2. In slightly other words: If Anakin had not interfered, would Mace have been able to kill Sidious?

Mace nearly does kill Sidious. Which reminds me....Sidious must have two sabers...hmm.

Thanks a lot for the swift answer.

Surprisingly, although you validate my theory, I feel a little bit hollow now... Somehow I guess I would have prefered that my theory is refuted.

And thanks, too, for giving us the next riddle to chew at. Two sabers?????

by **vanillazinger** » January 27th 2005 5:49 pm

So Mace actually does whup Sidious? That makes me quite happy.

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