MF TERNIAN REPORT: Choices

[bearvomit]

http://www.millenniumfalcon.com

[ctsketch]

he has an awesome duel with Sidious though

[Zidious]

One of the things I don't give a damn about is whether Mace does or does not "go out like a punk".

The overall scene sounds dynamic and dramatic.

[Wrath Mania]

Yeah, he pretty much out duels the baddest man in the galaxy. That's good enough.

Wasn't there doc footage of Hayden battling Sam though? Curious...

... unless they cut it?

And didn't Tern say that dialogue was fake?

[CoGro]

curious...

[bearvomit]

the dialog has been re-confirmed apparently. i always assumed that Mace fought Anakin more than Sidious.

[nomad]

Sidious suddenly jumps to his feet and unleashes Force lightning of immense power, lifting Mace up and throwing him out of the broken window to his death below.

the debate 'was sidious faking his efforts in the mace confrontation' can finally be put to rest...!

[Wrath Mania]

I assumed that they would at least have a quick duel, and that was the "defensive" fight that Sam Jackson kept talking about (now that appears to be his fight with Sidious until he breaks his saber).

Nonetheless, it still works this way.

[Wrath Mania]

Sidious suddenly jumps to his feet and unleashes Force lightning of immense power, lifting Mace up and throwing him out of the broken window to his death below.

the debate 'was sidious faking his efforts in the mace confrontation' can finally be put to rest...!

That's a good point, if he just suddenly springs up when Anakin severs Mace's hand, then there's no reason to think he could have sprung up instead of groveling beforehand.

I still think Mace actually did best him when he destroyed his saber, though.

[vanillazinger]

Being a tick away from killing Darth Sidious is hardly going out like a punk.

I love this scene. I can't wait to see it on the big screen.

I'm not aware of any footage of Hayden and Jackson fighting.

[nomad]

I still think Mace actually did best him when he destroyed his saber, though.

by all accounts that could, and probably is true - mace is the better dueller but sidious kanes him with his force skill - and we all know that the ability to use the force is more important that the use of a saber (reason why the yoda and dooku duel began with force skills).

[Wrath Mania]

And more importantly, being the mastermind of the situation.

Because the main objective for Sidious wasn't to kill Mace. He was banking on Anakin showing up, and using Mace to seal Anakin's turn.

Now granted, as I said in another thread, had Sidious misjudged Anakin's psyche, he would have been the one ending up flat on the Coruscant bedrock instead of Mace.

But the only person who Sidious misjudges in the end is one Luke Skywalker.

[nomad]

But the only person who Sidious misjudges in the end is one Luke Skywalker.

i have a feeling sidious was not 100% sure that anikan would step in but was 100% taken by suprise when vader did.

[Jymbo]

Presumably the Yoda vs Sidious duel happens after these events.

So either Sidious has a spare lightsaber or Yoda vs Sidious is ultimately a force power duel.

I guess he could use Mace's saber, but i doubt it.

[Wrath Mania]

Jymbo, it's already been confirmed that it seems Sidious must have a spare saber, because he uses one in the fight with Yoda.

[Vanda]

Allright Tern, question. In the last report you say that Mace cuts a hole in the window to throw Sidious out, they duel and end up "outside" the office on the ledge. But then here you say that Sidious lifts Mace up and throws him OUT the window with the lightning. Am I reading it wrong? Or do they come back inside the office at some point?

[Zidious]

Tern at TF.N:

"They are on the ledge, but move back into the office. From memory, it is when Mace cuts the saber in half."

[Jackie Estacado]

Yeah, I was about to ask that Vanda, I'm a little confused @ this point if they're arguing inside or out.

[Rogue_Six]

"So are you going to kill all of them too?"

All of who, too?

[darthpsychotic]

We post them as we get them. We got the new updated Mace vs Sidious scene late last week. Another problem is we were given updated scenes which made previous TERNIAN HARDCOPY REPORTS seem conflicting.

Apologies if it makes anyone's reposting our stuff on other sites difficult.

[Obi]

Yeah fucking moochers! All the good shit is on MF first newayz

[Zeal]

Do you guys remember Pablo saying Palpatine is a "master of every weapon" and that his saber skills are "beyond anything we've ever seen"? Taking this into consideration, how in the hell could Mace possibly take him?

I can understand Yoda and Palpatine being properly matched; that's like a battle between the gods. As for Mace taking out Sidious, logically, I just don't see how it's even possible.

Not to mention the fact that he is only considered a secondary character within the story.

[bearvomit]

the question to ask is why doesn't Sidious kill Anakin for turning him in to the Jedi? What use could he have for the chosen one?

[Wrath Mania]

Dude, Sidious purposely let Anakin go back to the temple so he could bait Mace and the posse to his office. He then could use them for two things:

1. Make the audio recording to frame the Jedi

2. Turn Anakin

Do you guys remember Pablo saying Palpatine is a "master of every weapon" and that his saber skills are "beyond anything we've ever seen"? Taking this into consideration, how in the hell could Mace possibly take him?

I can understand Yoda and Palpatine being properly matched; that's like a battle between the gods. As for Mace taking out Sidious, logically, I just don't see how it's even possible.

Not to mention the fact that he is only considered a secondary character within the story.

It's not like Mace is kicking Sidious's ass as soon as they exit the Antechamber. Remember Mace said his duel was mainly on the defense? We all thought that was against Anakin... but it's clear now he meant Sidious.

So Sidious has Mace on the defensive until they exit the window it seems. Then he destroys Sidious's saber.

And whether Sidious is faking defeat when kneeling seems to be left to interpretation.

[taku]

Sidious suddenly jumps to his feet and unleashes Force lightning of immense power, lifting Mace up and throwing him out of the broken window to his death below.

Doesn't sound like a beaten man to me. His bowing before Windu was an obvious charade. As I said, "A lightsaber does not make a Jedi."

[ikelleigh]

Wasn't there supposed to be another line at the end of all this... something along the lines of:

Anakin: What have I done?

[PTGrievous]

Ooooooh meaty

[rhonderoo]

Apologies if it makes anyone's reposting our stuff on other sites difficult.

[fritistat]

Hmmm....Sidious could have thrown that lightning while sitting on his ass staring up at Mace. Even if it didn't kill him, it would keep him busy deflecting the blast.

But maybe he didn't need to. Sid knew what Anakin's choice would be. Did Palpy really lose? Who knows...but he is the puppet master. The web of deceit is indeed sticky.

[MasterJed]

Mace defeats Palpatine. Ternian has stated it several times. Somebody HAD to show that Palpatine could be beaten in ROTS. I had my money on Yoda or even Anakin at some point. Lucas chose Mace. Why you ask? Simple. Yoda and Ben send Luke to destroy Palpatine and Vader. Luke chose not to, and we know what happened from there. Ben and Yoda thought Anakin was unredeamable. Now, if Palpatine had singlehandedly defeated Mace, then Yoda, how on earth wa Luke gonna do it? It would make Yoda look like a coward sending Luke to get stomped. Now, that we know Mace has the upper hand on Palpatine, we know that there is a possibilty that Luke can defeat the Emperor, we know Palpatine is not invincable. This 'Mace cannot defeat Palpatine' thinking is just as irritating as 'Yoda completely destroyed Dooku' .
UH OH, here it comes now...........

[rhonderoo]

Okay, wait Tern. Are you saying that Anakin tells Padmé about the dream and what he sees happening to her? That is cold. I mean, I don't think he does it to hurt her, but man...that would suck. But I guess she knows why he's doing what he's doing.

I don't think I'd want to know...

[Wrath Mania]

Mace defeats Palpatine. Ternian has stated it several times. Somebody HAD to show that Palpatine could be beaten in ROTS. I had my money on Yoda or even Anakin at some point. Lucas chose Mace. Why you ask? Simple. Yoda and Ben send Luke to destroy Palpatine and Vader. Luke chose not to, and we know what happened from there. Ben and Yoda thought Anakin was unredeamable. Now, if Palpatine had singlehandedly defeated Mace, then Yoda, how on earth wa Luke gonna do it? It would make Yoda look like a coward sending Luke to get stomped. Now, that we know Mace has the upper hand on Palpatine, we know that there is a possibilty that Luke can defeat the Emperor, we know Palpatine is not invincable. This 'Mace cannot defeat Palpatine' thinking is just as irritating as 'Yoda completely destroyed Dooku' .
UH OH, here it comes now...........

Ben and Yoda put their hope on Luke because is HE is their last hope. In their opinion, they're like, hey, it's worth a shot.

I don't think anyone that was sensible wanted Sidious to literally be a God. So what if he didn't lose a duel in ROTS? It's a movie(s), we know the good guys can win... and Luke's triumph still would have been spectacular.

Lucas wasn't thinking about Obi and Yoda training Luke at all when he set up Sidious VS Mace... he was thinking about giving Anakin a clear choice between letting Mace send Sidious to the pavement, or preventing Mace from doing so via literal disarming.

Whether Sidious fakes falling to his knees or not is almost irrelevant. Either way he's banking on the fact that Anakin is going to step in and complete his journey to the darkside (as for Mace and Sidious's earlier duel, it sounds like it's fairly even, perhaps with Mace on the defensive (judging from Sam Jackon's comments about his lightsaber fight having a lot of defensive moves until he nearly tricks Sids into flying through the window, and then halves his saber).

[MasterJed]

Lucas wasn't thinking about Obi and Yoda training Luke at all when he set up Sidious VS Mace... he was thinking about giving Anakin a clear choice between letting Mace send Sidious to the pavement, or preventing Mace from doing so via literal disarming.

This is a good point. Anakin's choice is the focal point of the Mace vs Sideous confrontation.

I don't think anyone that was sensible wanted Sidious to literally be a God.

Again, we agree, but there seem to be many who are less than happy that Palpatine has been bested by Mace Windu.

[BearaceDougie]

The Dialogue was posted couple days ago HERE

Tern first Debunked it, then re-confirmed it?

anyways.. its good to get confirmation, thanks Tern

[The Dark Shape]

Judging from what was posted, neither of them was besting the other. It was a complete and utter stalemate, until Sidious drops to his knees and puts it all on the line to lure Anakin to the dark side.

[Hade]

Sidious is in serious trouble, especially if Mace cuts his lightsaber in half before Anakin gets there.

Now are we to infer there is no duel between Mace and Anakin? If so, then that's not good. It's not good at all.

But Mace just turns and is about to finish his final strike against The Sith when Anakin unleashes his anger and cuts off Mace's saber hand.

I'm hoping this means that these two mix it up a bit beforehand.

No pun intended.

[pjvader]

if that dialog is real thats gonna be one kick ass scene!!!!!

[Hade]

Kale,

Ternian says that Sidious is not throwing the fight.

Also, Sam's recent comments from that audio clip seem to confirm this.

Here is what Sam said in the audio clip.

"So I think my (Mace's) choice is clouded by the fact that we aren't seeing clearly. That our (Jedi's) ability to make decisions and use the Force has been disrupted in such a way that...in a better time, I would have made the right choice and I would have just killed him (Palpatine) when I had the opportunity to kill him...and not take him to justice. And that would have changed the outcome of everything, but I didn't. And things go the way they go, but that's just how it happens."

"But I'm pleased with the drama of it all and the fact that it's clear that I'm standing there, and I'm winning this battle actually...even without Anakin's help up until he steps in, and does what he does to turn the tide...and that I go out the way I do. I've been begging not to die in my sleep or get stabbed in the back by some clone. And it didn't happen, so I'm happy."

[ZenDeadly]

I've said this before, but no one ever seems to respond to it...

I thought it was more than clear that Mace was THE best swordsman in the Jedi (with the possible exception of Anakin in ROTS). I thought that was stated by someone. Does anyone remember this at all?

And if that's the case, I don't see why it's so surprising that Mace can take Sidious in a duel.

[Bandersnatch]

I think by simply watching his handywork in AOTC, we get the impression that Mace is one badass lightsaber-weilding mo'fo.

In AOTC, however, it is implied (during the dialogue between Anakin & Obi-Wan during the speeder chase thru Coruscant) that Yoda's swordsmanship is just about of the highest calibur.

[ZenDeadly]

I think by simply watching his handywork in AOTC, we get the impression that Mace is one badass lightsaber-weilding mo'fo.

In AOTC, however, it is implied (during the dialogue between Anakin & Obi-Wan during the speeder chase thru Coruscant) that Yoda's swordsmanship is just about of the highest calibur.

I understand that.... what I'm saying is... wasn't it explicitly said by someone that Mace = #1 Jedi with a lightsaber? I swear that was said by someone.

[duff]

Does anyone remember this at all?

I've only seen Sam Jackson talk about that in an AOTC docu. IIRC, the quote was with respect to his training (as an actor) and along the lines of "since I'm the second baddest person in the universe, I think I'm doing pretty good".

Then you also have the TPM novelization that stating that Qui-Gon was the best swordsman in the Order and he was killed an apprentice Sith, so who knows. Sword-play is something that doesn't allows for mistakes, one and your done for. Sidious could have just been overly cocky after wasting 3 jedi before they had a chance to blink and slipped up.

[Salacious Crumb]

"There's always a bigger fish..." Qui-Gon

[vanillazinger]

The TPM novelization said Qui-Gon was the best Jedi swordsman? Man, nothing in the movie even remotely gave me that impression. A master, certainly, but not a master among masters. How funny.

[duff]

The TPM novelization said Qui-Gon was the best Jedi swordsman? Man, nothing in the movie even remotely gave me that impression. A master, certainly, but not a master among masters. How funny.

I just checked to make sure...it has been over 5 years since I read it.

Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi order. The Jedi Master he had trained under had considered him on the best the Master had taught in his more than four hundred years in the order. Qui-Gon had fought in conflicts all across the galaxy in the span of his life and against odds so great that many others would not have stood a chance. He had survived battles that had tested his skill and resolve in every conceivable way

OK, so it says one of the best...

[Slug]

No one has mentioned Obi-Wan yet. If Anakin is supposed to be one of the best then where does that rank Obi?

I mean he is going to be part of the longest duel in film history in this film. Not only that, but do you remember that in his 2nd duel Anakin/Vader in ANH? He doesnt just keep up with Vader, but he stops the duel by his own choosing with sacraficing himself.

So my point is that Obi has proved himself time & again throughout the saga. He kills Darth Maul, he battles Jango to with some success, he is one of the last Jedi standing in the arena, then he becomes the reason Anakin is more machine than man.

To me it seems that he is an underrated Jedi swordsman.
Certainly not the very best, but definitely right up there.
Just food for thought.

[vanillazinger]

Obi-Wan is the consistent entry character/protagonist of the PT, like Luke & Han in the OT. As such he succeeds against overwhelming odds. He's good enough to be impressive, but not so outstanding that a victory is assumed and a loss is disappointing. Qui-Gon was the same way, book notwithstanding. Mace, on the other hand, was created to fail.

[taku]

Plus it's EU crap because I don't think Dooku was in the order for hundreds of years.

He wasn't (he's in his 80's during the Clone Wars), but then no Jedi has but one master. It may have been another of his teachers.

[Benovite]

I think it should go down like this:

"I need him alive! I need him to save Padme!" says Anakin to a bewildered Mace, who bitchslaps Anakin and yells, "SHUT UP BITCH!"

Mace turns and is about to finish his final strike against The Sith when Anakin unleashes his anger and cuts off Mace's bitchslapping hand.

[Slug]

Yeah, right after Mace says "Mmmnn..mmmnn..that is a tasty burger!"