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by **MoodyMilkMan** » April 17th 2005 11:56 pm

Well, now that most of us know how it's all going to end does anyone have any lingering questions about the Star Wars saga that isn't addressed in the ROTS script or novelization?

IMO Sith wrapped things up rather tidely. I have some lingering questions of how Luke could have grown up and not heard the tales of his father or ran into anyone that could have supplied some insight for him but I guess thats fairly trivial.

And besides learning to keep his "self" intact after death I wonder what it is poor ol' obi-wan done all of those years out in the desert. It must have been a mighty change of pace to go from fighting legions of bad guys every day to just sittin around the hovel talkin to the force ghost of your deceased master.

by **JRA81984** » April 18th 2005 12:27 am

I maybe just have not read enough on this, but whats the deal on the ghost thing? I know qui gon offers training to yoda and obi wan on how to become one with the force. But how does this explain how Obi wan and Yoda dissappeared when they died and qui gon didnt?

by **ETandElliott** » April 18th 2005 12:55 am

JRA81984 wrote:I maybe just have not read enough on this, but whats the deal on the ghost thing? I know qui gon offers training to yoda and obi wan on how to become one with the force. But how does this explain how Obi wan and Yoda dissappeared when they died and qui gon didnt?

That intrigues me as well. Qui-Gon knew how to merge with the Force, but never dissapeared like Obi-Wan/Yoda.

by **FearlessYeti** » April 18th 2005 12:58 am

Ditto. From what I've seen we know the technique comes from the whole Whills (sp?) thing, but we don't know yet why some Jedi (WHO RETAIN THEIR CONSCIOUSNESS) dissapear and some don't - especially if Qui-Gon (or as my Mom keeps mistakenly calling him, Gui-Con...lmao) is the one who teaches Obi-Wan and Yoda how to do it, since he himself didn't dissapear. Also, how is it that Anakin's ghost goes back to looking like his younger self, while Yoda and Obi-Wan look like their old selves? I know I know, "he reverts to how he looked before he fell to the Dark Side." But if that's so then where's his scar? And wasn't he back on the Light Side when he died in his old body? Lol. And why didn't HE dissapear?

Lastly, I will always wonder how this can be explained: In TESB, Vader says "and I'm sure Skywalker is with them." Then a while later the Emperor tells him that Luke is "the offspring of Anakin Skywalker," and Vader acts surprised. I know I know, "Vader was hiding Luke's existence from the Emperor." That's all well and good, but it needs to be demonstrated in Episode III somehow or atleast implied that that's the case, so that non-hardcore fans of the films can grasp that line of subtext, don't you think?

Also, I'd like to know how it is that Jaba aged dramaticaly and lost his glossy hi-res sheen between Ep IV and Ep VI, and also gained a cardboard-like quality especially around the nostrils. He also changed color. (Note: This last one was a joke) :meatwad:

by **Chilly** » April 18th 2005 1:09 am

quigon learned how to speak through the force after death
he doesnt have a visual presence like obiwan and yoda do later though.

i think that explains why he didnt disappear apon death

obiwan was the first to become one with the force visualy as well as mentally. (i dont know about EU stuff but i would make a guess at him being the first to do it)
having learned how it might be possible from quigon.

by **Chilly** » April 18th 2005 2:17 am

thats more or less what i just said ^_^

but you said it in a more easy to understand way :whateva:

by **MoodyMilkMan** » April 18th 2005 2:31 am

Yeah, I don't know whats up with the young Anakin force-ghost. Maybe he's a special case because he's the chosen one.

by **foxbatkllr** » April 18th 2005 2:41 am

MoodyMilkMan wrote:Yeah, I don't know whats up with the young Anakin force-ghost. Maybe he's a special case because he's the chosen one.

Are you asking why he can appear as his younger self?

Cuz given the fact that old sebastian shaw was able to appear in different clothes with all his limbs and no scars and that obi-wan appeared with a robe even though he left it when he disappeared, i'm pretty sure jedi ghosts can alter their appearance to their liking.

by **MoodyMilkMan** » April 18th 2005 3:37 am

Good point, Foxbatkllr. :oops:

by **Obi-Wan Starkiller** » April 18th 2005 5:40 am

Yeah, I think Obi-Wan definitely had the worst part of it involving the rest of his life. I mean, at least Yoda had 880+ years in the galaxy before his exile. Here Obi-Wan is in the prime of his life and he has to exile to Tatooine with no one to talk to except for Qui-Gon's ghost. And if Qui-Gon's ghost comes around as often as Obi-Wan's ghost does in the OT, then he has a lot of time to himself. Would have been nice to have Aayla Secura around at times like this, no?

by **Chilly** » April 18th 2005 5:45 am

by **MoodyMilkMan** » April 18th 2005 7:27 am

The prequels have deepened my liking for the character of Obi-Wan. I think he's a much more tragic character than Anakin. Obi's had to carry a lot of guilt and baggage around for years and years over Anakin's about face.

by **raptor10001** » April 18th 2005 9:03 am

Anakin died when he became a sith lord (note this is not when he was bested by obi-wan)

The moment Vader (the sith lord) destroyed the Emperor he learned to let go of his attachments...that is the essence of the philosophy behind becoming one with the force (and retaining identity)...that is also why he could no longer survive. The dark side through palpatine was what was keeping him alive more so than the suit.

by that he retained his identity from before he became a sith lord

by **VT-16** » April 18th 2005 9:16 am

I have some lingering questions of how Luke could have grown up and not heard the tales of his father or ran into anyone that could have supplied some insight for him but I guess thats fairly trivial.

Well, to the populace in general, Anakin was a Jedi. Then the Jedi were branded traitors and wiped out, and I´m sure Palpatine would supress/slander their reputation. (In several EU stories it´s also pointed out how little people know of the Order, few have ever seen a Jedi, even fewer would have gotten to know them.)

And Owen could have kept his father´s real name from him or told him it was another 'Anakin' if asked.

by **Salacious Crumb** » April 18th 2005 9:26 am

I've always been interested in Palp's motivations and plans.

It seems from the novelisation that, in regard to Anakin's offspring, Palp's is quite happy that they died with Padme. Even in the world that we live in this might be quite an easy thing to check (post-mortem, DNA analysis).

Mmm, you'd have thought he might have done just that, given the potential threat they posed. However, I suppose his "overconfidence is his weakness" after all

To be honest I'd be delighted if somehow Palps knew of Lukes existence from the outset and, much like ObiWan and Yoda, was merely biding his time for the boy to develop and replace his crippled father. But I think one of the themes of this film is that Palps is not omnipotent, but more an awesome shaper of events.

by **jferranti** » April 18th 2005 10:02 am

Here is a question that I do not know if it will be answered. In A New Hope Obi Wan gives Luke his father's light saber. He says that reminds me I have something for you. Your father wanted you to have it. Based on the previews and from what I read it does not look like Anakin says that to Obi Wan. Please give this to my son when he is older. Also another thing with the time line from III & IV. Luke & Leia are born at the end of the movie. So from III & IV that is almost like 20 years or close to that. They should have made Obi Wan with more gray hair in III, because in IV he says I am getting too old for this sort of thing. So between III & IV what has the Empire been doing all that time? And I take it that Bail Organa was on Alderran when it exploded in IV? I know a lot of questions. Thanks for those that reply back.
:chewbacca:

by **VT-16** » April 18th 2005 10:29 am

Bail died on Alderaan, yes.

The Empire fought Separatist hold-outs and Rebel insurrections, while slowly turning into a totalitarian state, only kept in check by the Senate (until ANH).

by **Man in Slippers** » April 18th 2005 10:48 am

MoodyMilkMan wrote:And besides learning to keep his "self" intact after death I wonder what it is poor ol' obi-wan done all of those years out in the desert. It must have been a mighty change of pace to go from fighting legions of bad guys every day to just sittin around the hovel talkin to the force ghost of your deceased master.

Acutally, on another board, we deduced Obi-Wan left Tatooione for a little while and officially changed his identity to Ben Kenobi. Points in case: Ewan McGregor has blue eyes and Sir Alec Guiness has brown eyes (or vice versa), Ewan has a mole and Alec hasn't and last but not least, the comment about finding the best pilots in the galaxy at the Mos Eisly cantina (he must have had to deal with them if he knows). Okay, we were mostly kidding, but it would still use a few weeks of his time I guess!

by **Trallis** » April 18th 2005 10:55 am

i dont think its strange that anakin was able to appear young.. i've actually been wondering when anakin managed to learn how to appear after death at all. i know qui gon teaches yoda and obi wan, but when does anakin learn this... certainly qui gon didnt appear to him when he was sith

by **raptor10001** » April 18th 2005 11:41 am

nah when he killed the emperor he hit enough xp to level up and obtain the force ghost ability.

level 60 (elite) :whateva:

by **snooze** » April 18th 2005 11:46 am

isn't there supposed to be a scene in which Qui-Gon (through the force)
explains future occurances
to Yoda and Obi-wan? Stuff like why palpatine couldn't be defeated,
and that Luke is infact destined to destroy him (the emperor) , and not anakin..
I dont remember where I read this and I dont know if its true or not...
anybody...

by **WookieNutz** » April 18th 2005 12:07 pm

I'd think it would be obvious. (Spoiler) Anakin becomes Darth Vader before he even puts on the suit. He goes ape shit on the temple then kills the sepratists, and he didn't try and hide who he was or anything Plus, if he becomes this legendary Jedi, I would think its public knowledge especially if Organa knows, Mothma and all the rest.

by **WookieNutz** » April 18th 2005 12:18 pm

Read the book, Labyrinth of Evil, it lays pretty much everything out in there.

by **WookieNutz** » April 18th 2005 12:24 pm

Or if you really want to know, it was Sifo-Dyas who did it. Erased the files, ordered the clone army, all on Dooku's orders...

This was before Dooku left the order. Dooku then killed Sifo-Dyas, thus becoming Darth Tyranus....I think.

by **Zéyann** » April 18th 2005 12:31 pm

WookieNutz wrote:(Spoiler) Anakin becomes Darth Vader before he even puts on the suit.

Oh thanks a lot, you ruined the entire movie now

by **WookieNutz** » April 18th 2005 12:36 pm

Oops....

by **VT-16** » April 18th 2005 1:34 pm

He goes ape shit on the temple then kills the sepratists, and he didn't try and hide who he was or anything

I don´t think anyone would find out unless they viewed the security feed from the Temple, and the Temple itself is off-limits to ordinary folks. Everywhere else, he´s basically incognito and the ones who do see him, end up dead or exiled. If Bail knows, he would only have found out from Obi-Wan and Yoda.

Or if you really want to know, it was Sifo-Dyas who did it. Erased the files, ordered the clone army, all on Dooku's orders...

This was before Dooku left the order. Dooku then killed Sifo-Dyas, thus becoming Darth Tyranus....I think.

Sifo-Dyas got scared that the Republic might fall to the Separatists and secretly ordered the army, this was convenient for the Sith, since they wouldn´t have to do it themselves. He was killed by Dooku before he could tell anyone what he had done.

I really didn´t think this was a mystery worth answering in any way. If the Sith can stay hidden for 1000 years, they could easily pretend to be representatives of the Jedi and order a clone army in secret. I thought that was what they did, killed a Jedi and used his identity when adressing the Kaminoans. The official explanation is different but not really needed. People can make up their own minds about it without getting an on-screen explanation.

by **Sen-Set** » April 18th 2005 1:39 pm

Hehe, Fearless, I Vader was probably just surprised that his offspring survived. He probably thought they parished with his wife. And if Qui-Gon taught Yoda and Obi-wan how to become one with the force...who taught Vader? If it was in the Whills, why didn't Anakin disappear as Obi did? Very fuzzy this conversation is...

by **Sen-Set** » April 18th 2005 1:40 pm

Scratch the "I" in the beginning of that last post. Typo

by **VT-16** » April 18th 2005 1:43 pm

why didn't Anakin disappear as Obi did?

According to GL, he did, they just didn´t show it. If it was originally this way to keep his fate a mystery, I don´t know. Lucas´ revisions are so extensive I can´t remember what was and what wasn´t part of the original plan anymore.

Anyway, the Lucas of today says he did fade away off-screen and Luke burned his suit. THE END

by **Slug** » April 18th 2005 2:35 pm

jferranti wrote:Here is a question that I do not know if it will be answered. In A New Hope Obi Wan gives Luke his father's light saber. He says that reminds me I have something for you. Your father wanted you to have it. Based on the previews and from what I read it does not look like Anakin says that to Obi Wan. Please give this to my son when he is older. Also another thing with the time line from III & IV. Luke & Leia are born at the end of the movie. So from III & IV that is almost like 20 years or close to that. They should have made Obi Wan with more gray hair in III, because in IV he says I am getting too old for this sort of thing. So between III & IV what has the Empire been doing all that time? And I take it that Bail Organa was on Alderran when it exploded in IV? I know a lot of questions. Thanks for those that reply back.

This is Obi's first chance to teach Luke about the force & the ways of the Jedi. At that point Luke does not know of the force or the Jedi. If Luke is to help bring down Vader & the emperor then I am sure Obi does not want to scare the boy off by blurting out the whole story of his father right away. "Here kid this belonged to your dad who used to be a Jedi but now is in a suit to keep him alive because I helped toast him. He also killed as many Jedi as he could find & is now the scourge of the galaxy known as Darth Vader who is the emperor's right hand man. So what do you say, are you ready to come with me & fight the empire? You'll have to kill your dad so take this weapon that you're obviously not trained to use & may the force be with you. By the way, he also kinda killed your mom too."

See, even this is too much. Obi only told him what he needed to hear at that point in time. His goal was to be ready to teach him when the force brought Luke to him & guide him but not make his choices for him.

by **Ascovel** » April 18th 2005 2:41 pm

VT-16 wrote:Anyway, the Lucas of today says he did fade away off-screen and Luke burned his suit. THE END

Where (and when) did he say that? In the ROTJ DVD commentary he says: "This little scene, where Luke burns Anakins body..."

by **VT-16** » April 18th 2005 4:03 pm

Where (and when) did he say that? In the ROTJ DVD commentary he says: "This little scene, where Luke burns Anakins body..."

Did he? Oh, fuck him! The guy changes opinions like I change my socks. Fuck. :whateva:

by **Trallis** » April 18th 2005 4:32 pm

maybe dissapearing will end up not being relevant to whether or not you can keep your body... this is just our assumption

by **Zeal** » April 18th 2005 4:33 pm

I don't like the idea that maintaining one's identity is something of a 'trick' or a technique. It cheapens the mystery of how one extends himself from the Force.

The more logical explanation would be that one was strong enough in the Force to exert his or her will beyond the grave, i.e. Jesus Christ, Dracula, etc.

In essence, death itself would be no match for you.

by **GunsBlazing** » April 18th 2005 4:39 pm

In ANH Obi-Wan says something about Anakin not following him on some sort of crusade. But I don't see anything in the Episode III script about a crusade or about Obi-Wan asking Anakin to join him on anything like a crusade.

by **jojoba** » April 18th 2005 4:46 pm

Clone Wars = Idealistic Crusade

Obi-Wan was taliking about Uncle Owen's perceptions of the two Jedi. See, all that Owen knows about Obi-Wan, is that Anakin abrubtly left his own mother's funeral to assist Obi-Wan in a conflict that immediately escalated into the Clone Wars.

by **CoGro** » April 18th 2005 4:49 pm

A) Joining with the force isn't a trick - It's something achieved through compassion, training oneself to surrender completely to the Force.

B) The crusade Obi-wan refers to is the Clone Wars. Just because it isn't spelled out for you pho-en-et-i-cal-y doesn't mean it isn't explained.

by **VT-16** » April 18th 2005 4:50 pm

But I don't see anything in the Episode III script about a crusade or about Obi-Wan asking Anakin to join him on anything like a crusade.

Anakin running off to save him and help stop the Separatists in AOTC = start of crusade

by **Bandersnatch** » April 18th 2005 4:56 pm

GunsBlazing wrote:In ANH Obi-Wan says something about Anakin not following him on some sort of crusade. But I don't see anything in the Episode III script about a crusade or about Obi-Wan asking Anakin to join him on anything like a crusade.

Watch Star Wars Episode 4: A New Hope again, and this time pretend like you haven't already watched it 4000 times.

It is in ANH that we get the idea of the Lars's and the rest of the galaxy's attitude towards the Jedi, the Force and all crazy things of the past that are now considered "crusade" like, or "simple tricks and nonesense."

We don't need to hear Obi-Wan or Owen explicitly have the same fuckin' conversation that Obi-Wan and Owen apparently had when it is already heard as conveyed by Obi-Wan in the next episode of the story.

Basically, what CoGro and others said...
:monocle:

by **Trallis** » April 18th 2005 5:54 pm

in the original script of episode 2 obi wan calls anakin up on the holo right in the middle of the funeral and says "anakin i need you to follow me on some damn fool i dealistic crusade"

by **Benovite** » April 18th 2005 6:34 pm

I want to know what is probably the most important question of Episode 3:
What happens to Yoda's cane?

He walks up on Sidious, gets smacked, they fight, he flees, what happens to his cane?

by **gl_rayner** » April 18th 2005 7:03 pm

One quick question, Between Ep. III and Ep. IV why were the Clone Troopers so Tactical and Precise and in IV,V and VI they seemed to be a bit stupid. Was it because there were no Jedi to lead them or is there another reason.

by **FearlessYeti** » April 18th 2005 7:13 pm

If Anakin really does die in the laval flow/on the lava bank and is then reanimated, then I can accept him reverting to his younger form after death. If however in the movie we see that he is still alive, just terribly injured and close to death, then it will need some more explaining. Anakin had returned to the light prior to his death in ROTJ, so it can't be purely that he reverted to his "Light Side self."

I can buy that Qui-Gon was able to retain his consciousness but not his physical form. That makes sense especialy since he tells Yoda, "And in time, perhaps even your physical form" (I'm paraphrasing from memory there so don't quote me on it).

I'd still like to see some subtle hints that Anakin retains his desire to kill Palpatine even after he's in the suit, so that the comments I mentioned (on page 1 of this thread) from TESB make more sense, i.e. him acting dumb for the Emperor regarding Luke's existence and connection to him after already having used the name "Skywalker" himself earlier in the film.

by **Bandersnatch** » April 18th 2005 7:36 pm

Anakin "died" when he turned to the Dark Side and became Darth Vader.

:monocle:

About Leia and the remembering her mother thing: It is simply a Force connection and/or selective memory. No major plot hole. She's a new-born baby in ROTS and about 20 years old in ROTJ. Maybe she was shown pictures of her mother when she was very young, holographic images perhaps, that over the years she sort of remembers. It's not a major puzzle.

by **kinghajj** » April 18th 2005 11:01 pm

Question: who deleted the information on Kamino from the Archive in Episode 2? Did I miss that part in the Episode 3 script?

by **Obi** » April 18th 2005 11:04 pm

Labyrinth of EVil answered that one, it was Dooku

by **kinghajj** » April 18th 2005 11:09 pm

ObiTrice wrote:Labyrinth of EVil nswered that one, it was Dooku

I thought it was Dooku. Just had to be sure. Thanks!

by **Elliot334** » April 19th 2005 12:18 am

Is Leia talking about Bail Organa's Wife or Padmé in that scene? I too was always under the impression that she was talking about Padmé in that scene, and that Padmé hid on Alderaan with Leia and died shortly there after.

I mean, in ROTS, Padmé apparently dies a few minutes after the twins are born, so there is no way Leia could have known anything about her. Thus, she apparently has no idea she is adopted. Making the scene in ROTJ all the more unrealistic, considering how she seems pretty un-phased by the sudden revelation that Darth Vader is actually her father (the dude who blew up her home planet), her parents aren't really her parents, and her snog-buddy Luke is actually her brother.

See, Luke in this situation would start crying like a baby and try to commit suicide, Leia however shrugs it off as (Meh, I always knew... wow spiffy!)

I guess this isn’t that big a plot-hole, just really bad dialog...

by **Bandersnatch** » April 19th 2005 5:40 am

Elliot334 wrote:...so there is no way Leia could have known anything about her...

As I stated a few posts up, it could be selective memory, the Force... OR... pictures, holographic images, anything...

I guess this isn’t that big a plot-hole, just really bad dialog...

Good point, although I think the acting is to blame as well.

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