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Post Posted: July 3rd 2018 8:35 am
 
OBGYN
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It's like poetry.


Post Posted: July 3rd 2018 9:35 am
 

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wow... sooooo close...yet...


Post Posted: August 9th 2018 9:21 pm
 
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It's a result of clever, efficient and nuanced writing. I have no doubt this was Rian Johnson's idea. And very Lucas-like? Lucas-ian? Lucas-esque?


Post Posted: August 31st 2018 6:39 am
 
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I agree, The_Somnambulist. But, I also agree with this criticism of the film:


Q:"Why did Luke give up in the Last Jedi? What other events made Luke give up? From what we know Luke made one mistake and he gave up. That doesn't really make sense. Could you please help me understand."

Mark Hamill: "When I understand, I'll let you know."

"@rianjohnson" was included in Hamill's reply.


Post Posted: August 31st 2018 9:55 pm
 
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I don't want to dip my oar too deep into these waters at this point in time but I can see the weight of attempting to start a new Jedi Order and failing miserably as enough of a reason to turn someone into an obstinate, frazzled recluse. Especially when you factor in Luke's standing as the hero and last Jedi he was and the hope he stood for. The issue is hardly as inscrutable as Hamill's reply suggests.


Post Posted: September 9th 2018 10:00 pm
 
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I don't know why people read it as "Luke giving up:" That's not how it's communicated in the film. This one is made up by angry fans who wanted to see a super-powered Skywalker in the film.

We know that Luke believed he failed Kylo Ren as his master, which led to his Jedi order being destroyed. Then, as we learned in TFA, he went looking for the First Jedi Temple.

So, why?

If he really wanted to just "give up" on the Jedi after the Kylo incident, why would he painstakingly look for the super-secret ancient birthplace of the order he has now fully rejected? He wouldn't. He'd have retired to Old Ben's hut on Tatooine.

When you give up on something, when you are pushed too far, you lose the will to continue making an effort. You don't double down and try and accomplish the unachievable.

Luke went looking for answers after Kylo Ren's turn. He started to see a pattern of the chosen one's fall from grace, and wanted to see what could be done to keep the Force in balance and prevent this kind of pain from ever happening again. What he learned was what the viewers know from watching Episodes 1-6: that the Jedi, as they had developed into a bureaucratic council that was more concerned about protecting their power than the galaxy's citizens, were an unworthy torch-bearer of the light side of the Force. As the last of the Jedi, Luke wants that flame to extinguish so it can rise anew from a worthier source. That's why he disconnected himself from the Force: so he could not be found, and the Jedi teachings could be lost forever with the temple on that island.

I don't read this as Luke "losing hope" either. He knew there was darkness within him. He didn't want to create another Kylo Ren. I believe he truly was trying to save the galaxy from being stuck in a never-ending cycle of dogmatic war between the Jedi and Sith. Obviously, Luke learns throughout Episode 8 that the Jedi can be reborn in name, but evolve in discipline. The theme of this movie isn't "let the past die" like many people conclude - hell, since when does the audience agree with the bad guy's worldview and read it as the theme? - it's that failure is a great teacher, and that we collectively learn and can be made better by learning from the mistakes of others. Luke comes to realize that his failure, and the failure of the Jedi, can be valuable and inspire the emergence of a more worthy beacon of light.


Post Posted: September 11th 2018 6:21 am
 
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Thanks for posting, CoGro. Your post provides a fuller / truer picture.

Hamill thinks that Luke gave-up. Maybe, that will lead to J.J. taking his or Lucas' advice for Luke in episode IV?


Post Posted: September 11th 2018 6:35 pm
 

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I come here for the music commentary and CoGros posts... always well thought out! I still dont love the movie.


Post Posted: September 12th 2018 9:34 pm
 

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I still think when Luke tells the story of what happened with Kylo Ren during his training it would have come across better if the film focused on Luke just telling the story and not show some weird flashback. I just don't like the flashbacks in Star Wars. We get such a great scene when Obiwan tells Luke what happened to Anakin, then later Vader tells his version to Luke. Similar to Kylo Ren telling his version to Rey. Without the flashback you get the audience to decide.

As far as Luke's behavior in Episode 8 , I felt that he wasn't giving up but that he truly thought the Jedi way needed to end. What he was doing, staying on that island not cause he was defeated but to sacrifice himself and his "life" to keep the force in balance. Which for Luke to fall into that thinking never bothered me. I had told friends before 8 came out that Luke was raised for 18 years by a man who clearly distrusted the "crazy old wizard" and I'm sure that effected Luke's view of the Jedi later on as he learned about the mistakes of the past.

Like Hokusai said though I still dont love the movie. Mark Hamil is great , I love the Crait stuff. The fact that Snoke dies made me happy cause I wanted to learn more but it was a great unexpected turn in the story. I can make up for some of the plot hole stuff in my mind ( except space gas , I mean really space gas) and it doesnt bother me that a FARM boy milked an animal. What bothers me is whats happened after the movie. Lucasfilm lumping in any undesirable opinions as hateful fans.

I rank it last in my list of Star Wars Films, to me it suffers from 1 more needed edit like AOTC did. I still have high hopes for Episode 9. If Obiwan , Luke and Yoda come back via force form to help defeat evil ala some of the ROTJ drafts I think it would be amazing. My favorite would be if Obiwan, Quigon and Yoda or some combination of those 3 , sacrifice their existence in the force to bring Luke back. Especially since he sacrificed so many years on the island. Luke gets to just live out his days helping Rey rebuild the Jedi. Any way thats my rant.


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