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Post Posted: May 9th 2005 10:09 pm
 

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Rotten Potato wrote:
Hey guys, please, stop the political arguing. It's getting fucking boring, now. What was fun with this thread is that we could get answers from some people who had seen the film. But now it's full of your politics bullshit and we lost the only thread where we could get our questions answered.

If you wanna discuss political matters, please start a new thread. I ( and i'm sure there's a lot of people thinking like me ) am getting pissed off by your endless arguments.

:whatevaho: :mad:


Let's see. Today is 9 May 05. You can wait 10 days to answer your very pressing and urgent questions. As you are a VIP here, I am sure your request will be answered. If you are getting pissed off, then don't post in the thread. As a matter of fact, just shut the FUCK up. Why don't you start a new thread, (this isn't a one thread forum btw) if you really want to ask questions. Or better yet, if your questions simply CANNOT wait 10 days PM someone who has seen the film. Stop whining please. Thank you, the internet.


Post Posted: May 9th 2005 10:27 pm
 

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What I have seen is your giant freaking avatar.

force, I will say the main article Life After Darth was very good.. hell, the interview is good too. That's all I'll say for now... until I see the film and agree with your "parallels" view that:

Jedi Counci Building = WTC
Palpatine = Bush
Obi-Wan = John Kerry
Order 66 = Patriot Act
General Greivous = Karl Rove
Bail Organa = Al Franken
Baby Luke = Hilary Clinton
Ric Olie = Tom Delay

:mrgreen:


Post Posted: May 9th 2005 10:28 pm
 
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r8hitman wrote:
I dont understand why we have so many different opinions on whether Sidious was faking or not.

IMO he gets his ass whipped and "exaggerates" it once Anakin walks in.

(but that's just based on what I've heard since I havent seen it yet)

;)


There is a legit debate surrounding what happens. Sidious could have felt Anakin coming and took a dive, but also could have been beaten and made himself look innocent when Anakin came in.

That being said, Mace does best him in the film from the perspective of the viewer. That is clear.


Post Posted: May 9th 2005 10:38 pm
 

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Have you seen it also CoGro?


Post Posted: May 9th 2005 10:42 pm
 
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Phod wrote:
Have you seen it also CoGro?


Perhaps I have.


Post Posted: May 9th 2005 10:49 pm
 

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I dont think you have.


Post Posted: May 9th 2005 10:52 pm
 
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Phod wrote:
I dont think you have.


That's a fair position to take.


Post Posted: May 9th 2005 10:54 pm
 

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Quote:
I ask again: What are the Clone Wars planets like? I'd like to know what Saleucami is like especially. Much appreciated.


Pardon my ignorance in this, but I have seen it, but don't know the planet you refernce. Real Life has prevented me from such in-depth SW lore.

I'd be happy to answer your question, here or via PM.


Quote:
There is a legit debate surrounding what happens. Sidious could have felt Anakin coming and took a dive, but also could have been beaten and made himself look innocent when Anakin came in.

That being said, Mace does best him in the film from the perspective of the viewer. That is clear.


A debate likely to go on forever, I'm sure, but you are pretty much on, whether or not you have seen it. :)


Post Posted: May 9th 2005 10:58 pm
 
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Quote:
There is a legit debate surrounding what happens. Sidious could have felt Anakin coming and took a dive, but also could have been beaten and made himself look innocent when Anakin came in.

That being said, Mace does best him in the film from the perspective of the viewer. That is clear.

OboeCop wrote:
A debate likely to go on forever, I'm sure, but you are pretty much on, whether or not you have seen it. :)


I'm giving a slow nod, which I will characterize with this: :cool:


Post Posted: May 9th 2005 11:01 pm
 

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You know... one thing I will say about the Mace/Palps fight that was pretty bitchin' was when Mace brought the lightning back down on Palps and fucked up his face.

You see it happen, but I had to wonder (and flame on if I'm talking out my ass at how obvious this is/was) was Palps always this way, and just used the fight to let his True Form free, or not?


Post Posted: May 9th 2005 11:07 pm
 

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Oboe if you had to guess the length in minutes (or compared to other PT and OT duels) how would you characterize:

Obi/Ani and Ani vs. Dooku

Mace vs. Palp

Obi vs. Greivous

Obi vs. Anakin

Yoda vs. Sidious

TAKE SOME GUESSES. :)


Post Posted: May 9th 2005 11:16 pm
 

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I keep reading similar reactions to Ian's role in the movie. My question for those who have seen it, "Do you believe that Ian's performance was good enough to possibly be nominated for an academy award?"


Post Posted: May 9th 2005 11:16 pm
 

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As long as you don't hold me to it all...

Quote:
Obi/Ani and Ani vs. Dooku


4-6 minutes

Quote:
Mace vs. Palp


2-3 minutes for the actual duel. The entire scene goes longer

Quote:
Obi vs. Greivous


with lightsabres - 1-2.5 minutes. With Grevious bitch-slapping Obi around - 5 minutes. There was a kick Obi tries in that fight, to trip Grevious. It didn't work. Obi howls in pain, and I burst out laughing. Well played by Ewan...

Quote:
Obi vs. Anakin


10-15 minutes as promised. My beef with this duel is that there is almost too much jumping and running. I'm a big fan of plain ole sword fightin' and though there was plenty, I'm a greedy fucker and wanted more.

Quote:
Yoda vs. Sidious


3-4 minutes. Though too short, it is sweet fight. Yoda truly is a cool character.


Post Posted: May 9th 2005 11:31 pm
 
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"The only thing worse than Star Wars-related political discussions are non-Star Wars-related political discussions. - Oscar Wilde

I wish we could just put ideolog conservatives and ideolog liberals in a room and let them cancel each other out.


Oh, and here's the full sum of my thoughts on Palpatine's lying:


...


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 12:16 am
 
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And you know what, just cause some people want to keep a discussion about the thread isnt ground for others to yell at them... yeah, i can wait 10 days, but i still want to come to a thread about what people who have seen the movie actually saw.


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 2:40 am
 

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To bring this political stuff back on track, if people don't think Lucas puts in political overtones intentionally -- LISTEN TO THE MAN -- on the DVD commentaries, interviews, etc. He specifically says that there are subtle political notions behind the effects and hidden within the context of the stories. He's mentionad several times that the Ewoks were supposed to represent Vietnam, a backward low-tech nation fighting and beating a stronger industrial nation -- the USA.

Whether or not the same kind of overtones in the prequels represent Bush or 9/11 are open to debate, but Lucas has clearly, emphatically, and without worry of rebuke, stated that there are social and political issues interwoven within the starwars narrative. Hell, just look up the word WAR which is in the damn title. War is the ultimate expression of politics, both domestically and abroad. Political hand-wringing and machinations are usually the root cause of every war, whether it be a prime minister spilling coffee on his rival's leg during a PR trip, an ambassador being assassinated, or a Hitler-wannabe who gets power hungry and starts playing global chess and gobbling up nation states to increase the wealth and prestige of his own land -- usually to cement his own power and to avoid being toppled by his competitors.

Palpatine may not be a ghostly mirror of Bush, but he certainly represents anyone who goes into public office with higher ambitions than just to serve the public good. Power corrupts and for any of us to assume that everyone in Washington (or any governmant) has clean hands is fooling himself and building castles in the air with self delusion. These people make careers out of lying! That's what PR is! That's what debates are about now. It's no longer about making your case, standing behind your values, and defending those ideas, even if you're alone in doing so. Getting elected now is the same thing as joining the mob or some other secret society. You may go in with a crusader's agenda, but by the time you leave, the lobbyists have swept the isles with your idealism. Politics is no longer the arena for crusaders and idealists, though it should be. It is the arena of cloak-and-dagger scheming and 'let's see how much money and power I can acquire before my voters kick my ass out of office.'

And that is truth, and that is a perfect reality for the aspiring Palaptines of the world. And that is what Lucas is trying to warn us about, even if he has to shade it with cartoony action and robotic fun set in a galaxy far, far away.


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 5:24 am
 

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OboeCop wrote:
Quote:
Yoda vs. Sidious


3-4 minutes. Though too short, it is sweet fight. Yoda truly is a cool character.


Kind of what I expected. You can't throw senate pods around forever. However, is this fight intercut with Vader vs bi-Wan or are they two seperate fights?


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 5:28 am
 

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Quote:
Only Sith deal in absolutes.

And GWB ain´t the first to use this card to justify every controversial thing he does, just the most recent and famous. History is filled with these kinds of folks, that´s why their "archetype" often end up in stories.


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 6:26 am
 
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agreed with the nay sayers

this thread has turned to another crappy political Gerorge Bush is an asshole/no he isnt debate..

this thread was for people whohad seen the movie to tell us what they thought and answer a few questions surely.

If anyone actually wants to know anything im willing to answer a few questions rather than sit here cracking one off to George Bush as some people seem to be doing.


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 6:39 am
 
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Swedish Chef wrote:
You may go in with a crusader's agenda, but by the time you leave, the lobbyists have swept the isles with your idealism. Politics is no longer the arena for crusaders and idealists, though it should be. It is the arena of cloak-and-dagger scheming and 'let's see how much money and power I can acquire before my voters kick my ass out of office.'

And that is truth, and that is a perfect reality for the aspiring Palaptines of the world. And that is what Lucas is trying to warn us about, even if he has to shade it with cartoony action and robotic fun set in a galaxy far, far away.


I have to agree that there is not enough enthusiasm, idealism and especially ethics in today's political landscape. Not enough policy and too much politics. But on the other hand, I am not too fond of the concept of crusaders and crusades in today's political processes. Crusades belong to the middle ages IMO.

CinematicESP wrote:
Hopefully this won't get caught in the middle of a heated political debate. I ask again: What are the Clone Wars planets like? I'd like to know what Saleucami is like especially. Much appreciated.


No, it won't.

[sarcasm] Tatooine looks like Iraq, Geonosis looks like Afghanistan, Corsucant looks like New York, Cato Neimoidia looks like Washington D.C., Utapau looks like Somalia, Naboo looks like Colombia, Yavin 4 looks like Nicaragua, Endor looks like Vietnam, Kashyyyk looks like South Korea, Mustafar looks like Hiroshima, Saleucami looks like Nagasaki, Mygeeto looks like Dresden, Hoth looks like the Ardennes in WW II, Dagobah looks like Flanders in WW I, Felucia looks like the Philippines in 1899... [/sarcasm]

Seriously:
Mint Imperial, there's no explanation why Palpatine doesn't hunt down Yoda after their duel, or is there? After all Yoda is the strongest of the Jedi and he could escape. Nevertheless I don't sense a plothole. I guess after establishing the Empire, Palpatine's overconfidence became some sort of weakness...


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 7:12 am
 

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Quote:
agreed with the nay sayers


Hmm...whatever man. Personally I think the politics is more relevant than daft stuff like whether Jar Jar wears a pink frock or the color of the lightsaber wielded by some insignificant jedi. It is certainly relevant when some of the reviewers are commenting about it and it seems to have at least some people wondering.


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 7:27 am
 
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What the heck happened to this thread? I left it yesterday morning with it still being a question and answer thread about a review of ROTS, and I come in this morning and I have to wade through 2 pages of Star Wars has a hidden agenda and is anti-bush crap.

Come on.


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 7:30 am
 

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Quote:
Kind of what I expected. You can't throw senate pods around forever. However, is this fight intercut with Vader vs bi-Wan or are they two seperate fights?


This has already been answered, but the answer is that the two fights are intercut, but only briefly.


Palps in '08!!!


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 7:54 am
 

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ender wiggin wrote:
What the heck happened to this thread? I left it yesterday morning with it still being a question and answer thread about a review of ROTS, and I come in this morning and I have to wade through 2 pages of Star Wars has a hidden agenda and is anti-bush crap.

Come on.


Ok, first of all, the Q&A stuff ain't happening much now in this thread, as the posters aren't asking as many questions, and secondly, there's nothing wrong with a little starwars political chat to keep the thread lively until people come up with more questions to get fucking answered.

And since when did every discussion on this board that has anything remotely to do with politics have to be an anti-bush topic? Show me the posts where people are flying those colors and I'll agree with you, but they're not. We're simply talking about issues that may or may not be imbedded into the mythos of fucking starwars.

As far as I'm concerned, these subjects that we have raised are of the entry level, kindergarten variety of politics. Nothing's getting out of hand, and if you don't want to jump into the political fray, then fucking don't. People in this country still care about the issues and their government and a little public discourse isn't a bad thing.

And by the way, Mint Imperial has started a new Q&A thread in the forum. Happy?


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 10:03 am
 
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the reason "motherfuckers are getting butt-hurt" is probably because they are right-wing pro-war jingoistic neo-conservatives or whatever and somehow think the political subtext of their beloved Star Wars from start to finish isn't a diatribe against everything they believe in.


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 10:07 am
 
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yes, I am a leftist treehugging bleeding heart liberal. And proud Old European on top of it. Bummer that there are no Starbuck coffee shops in my hometown - as far as I know... :mrgreen:


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 10:12 am
 
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i'll remember, and if i ever meet Lucas I'll thank him for having the balls to do it.

but i hear you. even further, no one's going to remember my stupid post
or be convinced or convince me of anything politically on a star wars board (even if the board kicks dewback ass.)

meanwhile i want to know if people cheered or anything at any time during the screenings.

and if we see the japor snippet at the funeral.

thanks.


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 10:39 am
 

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Quote:
meanwhile i want to know if people cheered or anything at any time during the screenings.

and if we see the japor snippet at the funeral.


There was clapping when it started at my screening, and when the movie was over.

And tell me what a japor is and I'll tell you if it was there.


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 10:44 am
 
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it was the little wooden carving that anakin gave padme in TPM that served no real purpose if it doesn't show up in ROTS. Originally she hands it to Obi-Wan before dying but that was apparently cut or not filmed. But I'm curious if we see it at all again. We saw it for a second in the Clone Wars cartoon and it actually brought some more depth to their relationship for a flicker.


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 10:53 am
 

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Oh, that thing. Nope. Padme takes it to her grave. They show it on her bod when she's in her funeral procession


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 10:59 am
 
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Cool. Glad it's in a little. Thanks.


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 11:26 am
 
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She wears the snippet also when Anakin tells her about his nightmare (it's visible in the trailer). I think a chain around her neck can be spotted in various others scenes as well (in trailer and tv spots).


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 1:31 pm
 
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Also to be added in the digital print:

after Anakin leaves Palpatine's office, following Mace's death.

Jar Jar: Hello ANI, MESA SEEIN YOU WIT DA CHANCELA. MESA HERIN THE BAD BONGO TINGS GOIN ON.


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 1:38 pm
 
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i've actually learned to live with Jar Jar, but I'm looking forward to the deleted scene on the Tantive IV at the end of the film:

JAR JAR: Ooosa, meesa so happy meesa gonna live with the daughter of lil' Ani! Meesa tell her allll about her bombad parents.

BAIL ORGANA: Oh, and Captain?

CAPTAIN ANTILLES: Yes sir.

BAIL ORGANA: Have the Gungan's tongue cut out.

JAR JAR: Ouch time!


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 2:05 pm
 
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relayer wrote:
i'll remember, and if i ever meet Lucas I'll thank him for having the balls to do it.



Indeed. Ian McDiarmid mentioned the very obvious parallels in a recent interview, and said George would be a fool to point it out, but it's there. It's quite the thing for George to create the greatest mythology of our time, and then quietly take a couple potshots at an administration. I mean, putting someone's words in Darth Vader's mouth--that's a hell of a weapon you have there.

I'm just glad it's subtle. I don't want to have think about the Chimperor while watching this movie. The Labyrinth of Evil novel was a bit ruined for me with the 'Triad of Evil' bullshit. They might as well have had Mas Amedda's old company get a no-bid contract to rebuild Felucia.


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 2:34 pm
 

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Flay,

Your avatar reminded me of one other very cool part in the film when Yoda & Palps are about to throw down, you get to see how his office is connected to the Senate chamber.

Very cool.


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 3:23 pm
 

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I think a review mentioned Boss Nass can be seen in it.. true? During the funeral?


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 5:11 pm
 

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Quote:
I think a review mentioned Boss Nass can be seen in it.. true? During the funeral?


Tru dat. He and Jar Jar


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 5:16 pm
 

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Back to politics for a moment ...

Is it true that, as part of Order 66, Palpatine proposes the No Padawan Left Behind act?

:monocle:


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 5:17 pm
 

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I asked this in the other thread but didn't get an answer. Where specifically does the music on the soundtrack appear in the film? For example, "Revenge of the Sith" isn't part of the OSB, so where is it in the film? And what scene features "Anakin's Dark Deeds" and "Padme's Ruminations"? Etc...


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 5:19 pm
 
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Does Bail have any interesting traits of character or is he just a plain good guy that is capable to use a blaster when it really matters, but there is not much more to say about him?


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 5:29 pm
 

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but i have to agree that the jedi temple smoldering really reminded me of the WTC

From now on, every single building that has ever burnt during a war will have an American flag and a crying eagle above it. No joke. :o


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 5:49 pm
 
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VT-16 wrote:
From now on, every single building that has ever burnt during a war will have an American flag and a crying eagle above it. No joke. :o


I think that'll probably always be true for those of us who had to hear cel phone calls from friends and loved ones saying Goodbye.


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 6:14 pm
 

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Quote:
t's quite the thing for George to create the greatest mythology of our time, and then quietly take a couple potshots at an administration. I mean, putting someone's words in Darth Vader's mouth--that's a hell of a weapon you have there.


It is one hell of a weapon to have. And wielded in quite a lame way. Lame, because the quote can only be seen as a swipe at George Bush. And a swipe that makes absolutely no sense.

Anakin: "If you're not with me, you're my enemy."
Obi-Wan: "Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes."

?????????

Oh, I get it Lucas, Anakin = bad guy, GWB = bad guy. So we'll have the bad guy say a GWB line, and then we'll have Obi-Wan say something to demonize the bad guy, despite the fact that the line runs contradictory to everything we know about the Jedi and the Sith.

"Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes." Really? First, I'll point out the obvious fact that Obi-Wan just made an absolute statement, Obi-Wan dealing in an absolute, being a Jedi. Second, the entire Jedi order is based around following absolutes, a strict Jedi code full of them.
Marriage for a Jedi = bad. Anakin will be kicked out if his marriage is discovered. Hmm, sounds pretty absolute.
Personal possesions = bad.
Sith = evil.
A slew of other absolutes that the Jedi live by.

The line is lame because it's a complete non-sequitor in the world George Lucas has created. Not that it's gonna ruin the movie for me, it's just a piss poor swipe that doesn't make any sense. Maybe in the digital version , Palpatine can have a "Mission Accomplished" banner behind him as he declares the "Clone Wars" over, that would be subtle.


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 7:22 pm
 
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Anyone else feel that these fuckers arguing over whether Lucas is taking swipes at Bush sound like the same idiots claiming Lucas was a racist after Episode 1 came out? The real question should be, who really gives a shit?


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 7:32 pm
 
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To the "Lucas is making Bush to be a Sith" whiners: for one, I really, really doubt it. Two, who gives a shit if he is doing it (he's not). Three, :vfuckoff:


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 8:00 pm
 
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YAAAY PALPATINE 4 PREZIDENT YAAAAY !!!


Post Posted: May 10th 2005 8:10 pm
 

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Quote:
It is one hell of a weapon to have. And wielded in quite a lame way. Lame, because the quote can only be seen as a swipe at George Bush. And a swipe that makes absolutely no sense.

Anakin: "If you're not with me, you're my enemy."
Obi-Wan: "Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes."


Obviously I get the irony here, but I think there are good reasons for what Kenobi is saying. The whole ideology of the Sith is based on absolutes. The irony you point out is part of weakness of the Jedi order; the Jedi, as Yoda says, are too sure of themselves. But the Jedi ideology is not based entirely on absolutes. Obi Wan becomes far more reflective on the situation after 20 years on Tatooine.


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Quote:
Obviously I get the irony here, but I think there are good reasons for what Kenobi is saying. The whole ideology of the Sith is based on absolutes. The irony you point out is part of weakness of the Jedi order; the Jedi, as Yoda says, are too sure of themselves. But the Jedi ideology is not based entirely on absolutes. Obi Wan becomes far more reflective on the situation after 20 years on Tatooine.


Sorry, that just doesn't make any sense. The whole ideology of the Jedi *is* based on absolutes. Their whole existence revolves around a "code." A dogma. That is living by absolutes. That is the Jedi order's weakness, as Yoda points out after it's too late. Which is exactly why Obi-wan's line makes zero sense. The Sith, on the otherhand, seem to live by no absolutes, apart from the 1 master, 1 apprenctice thingy. They pretty much adapt and do whatever is necessary to survive and take back power.

Thus, Obi-wan's line is complete garbage. And this conversation has become really geeky, so I''m pretty much done here.


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Wondercheese wrote:
From now on, I'll try to stick to the all important topics of how "gay" stuff is, saving the world from "niggerdom", tracking down the ever elusive box of cereal, and giving frequent updates on how slow my downloads are going. Thanks.


Someone isn't familiar with the reservation...


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