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Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 7:28 pm
 

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#RELEASETHEJJCUT




• twitter: #releasethejjcut



u/egshoppe @ r/SaltierThanCrait

Since shortly after release weekend, I’ve been corresponding with someone who worked closely on the production of TROS and works for one of the major companies I cannot disclose here. I have verified the source to my satisfaction. To protect the source, I am rewording what we spoke about over the last two weeks and am submitting it to you in bullet point format I have written based on what they told me.

The TLDR is that they were upset with the final product of TROS and wanted to share their perspective on how it went down and where it went wrong.

• The leakers for TROS had an agenda and are tied to Disney directly. My source confessed that they have an agenda as well in that they struggle with ignoring what’s been happening to someone who they think doesn’t deserve it.
• JJ always treated everyone on and offset with respect so my source’s agenda is that what Disney has done to JJ and how much they screwed him over should be something people are at least aware of, whether you like him as a filmmaker or not.

• Disney was one of the studios who were in that Bad Robot bidding war last year.
Disney never had much interest in BR as a company but they did in JJ because they saw WB (who JJ went with in the end) as a major threat.

• JJ is very successful at bringing franchises back like Mission Impossible, Star Trek and Star Wars.
WB is struggling with DC and aside from Wonder Woman, DC is still seen as a bit of a joke in its current state by the GA.

• WB wants Abrams for some DC projects.
My source said that this generation’s Star Wars is the MCU, and Marvel’s biggest threat is a well operational DC.
They want to keep DC in the limbo that they’re in right now. Abrams jumpstarting that franchise with something like a successful, audience-pleasing Superman movie makes them nervous.
Their goal is to make JJ look bad to potential investors/shareholders.

• My source mentioned this shortly after the premiere: “The TROS we saw last night was not the TROS we thought we worked on”.

• JJ was devastated and blindsided by this.
He’s been feeling down over the last 6 months because of some of the ridiculous demands Disney had that changed his movie’s story.
While the scenes were shot, a lot of the changes were made in post-production and the audio was rerecorded and altered.

My source said they’ve never seen anything like this happen before.
He’s the director and he wasn’t in the know about what they were doing behind his back.

• Apparently, JJ felt threatened over the month leading up to the premiere.
• Rian was never meant to do IX despite some rumors that he was.

• JJ was brought back by Iger, not KK. Disney insisted on more fan service, less controversy.

• JJs original agreement when he signed on was indicating he would have way more creative control than he did on TFA.
It became evident this wasn’t the case only a couple of weeks into shooting when the trouble with meddling started.

• JJ wanted to do some scenes he thought were important but Disney shut it down citing budgetary reasons.
• May 2019: JJ argued that those scenes were crucial.
He had to let go of one of the scenes. The other scene he insisted on was approved at first.
He did reshoots and additional photography in July. The new scene was shot at BR in October.

• The “ending that will blow your mind” was a part of this.
Older actors were included like Hayden, Ewan and Samuel and anyone who wasn’t animated.
The force ghosts weren’t meant to be voices because they shot that footage on camera. The actors were in costumes.
Rey was supposed to be surrounded by the force ghosts to serve as sort of a barrier between her and the Sith surrounding them.

• My source thinks but can’t 100% confirm that this is because of China. It’s an office talk of sorts. Some VFX people claimed they got a list of approved shades of blue they could use on the Luke force ghosts. Cutting this out was when the bad blood turned into a nightmare for JJ because the movie he was making was suddenly unrecognizable to him in almost every way.

• My source knows JJ well enough to know that he’s just not the yelling type but apparently in a meeting he yelled something along the lines of “Why don’t you just put ‘directed and written by Lucasfilm’ then?”
My source wasn’t present for that exchange but knows some who were.

• Disney demanded they shoot some scenes that would have things in it for merchandise.
“They fly now” is one of them. It’s also JJ’s least favorite scene.
At a November screening of a 2:37 cut, he cringed, groaned and laughed when the scene was on.

• My source says that JJ was most likely not joking when he said “you’re right” in the interview where they asked him about TROS criticism.

• JJ’s original early November cut was 3 hours 2 minutes long.
• In January, JJ suggested that they turn this into two films. My source told me this well before Terrio mentioned it in an interview a couple of days ago. When Disney said no, JJ was content with making this 3 hours long.

• Over a period of 9 months JJ started realizing that one by one his ideas and whole scenes were being thrown out the window or entirely altered by people who have “no business meddling with the creatives”.

• They were not on the same page when it came to creative decisions and it became obvious that Disney had an agenda in addition to wanting to please shareholders.
Disney could “afford messing up IX for the sake of the bigger picture” when it came to protecting things unrelated to IX.

• The cut JJ eventually and hesitantly agreed to in early December was 2:37 minutes long. It wasn’t the cut we saw which he wouldn’t have approved of (and which is 2:22 long). Apart from the force ghosts, there were other crucial and emotional scenes missing. The cut they released looked “chopped and taped back together with weak scotch tape” (JJ's words).

• The movie opened with Rey’s training. Her first scene with Rose was shortly after Rey damaged BB-8 during the training. Rose made a silly joke about how Poe is going to kill her for damaging BB-8.
There was a moment where Rey took a minute to process what just happened when she saw that vision during training. She looked distressed and worried.

The next scene was noise as the Falcon was landing and Rey runs over there.
Those two women who kissed at the end were visible in this shot and they were holding hands.
One of them ran towards the Falcon as it landed.

• Kylo on Mustafar scene was 2mins longer. There was a moment where Kylo seemed a bit dizzy and his vision was shown as blurry for a second. Almost as if time half-stopped while everyone in the background was slow-mo fighting. Kylo hears Vader's breathing, then shakes his head and time goes back to moving at a normal pace and he jumps right back into the battle (the scene from the trailer where he knocks that guy down which did end up in the movie later).

• They cut some of the scenes from the lightspeed skipping segment. Some of the planets that were cut were Kashyyyk, Naboo, and Kamino.
• The scene where the tie fighters are chasing them through the iceberg - those corridors were inspired by a video game JJ used to play in the 90s called Rebel Assault 2 (the third level in the game with the tunnels on Endor specifically).
• Jannah was confirmed to be Lando’s daughter.

• Rey not only healed Kylo's face scar but she killed Kylo when she healed Ben.
Kylo ceased to exist when Rey healed him.

My source mentioned that some people assume it was Han Solo who healed him but that isn’t true and that wasn't Han Solo. That was Leia using her own memories as well as Ben's to create a physical manifestation of his own thoughts to nudge him towards what he needed to
do. That was her own way of communicating that with him. And it wasn't possible without her dying in the process. She made the ultimate sacrifice for her son and this flew over people's heads with the Disney cut.

• The late November cut (the last cut JJ approved of) had scenes with Rose and Rey still.
JJ wanted to give her a more meaningful arc. Disney felt that that was too risky too.

My source mentioned that Chris Terrio said that it was because of the Leia scenes but this is only partially true because she had four other scenes including two with Rey/Daisy that Leia was not in.

Finn wanting to tell Rey something was always meant to be force sensitivity. In the 3 hour cut, it’s explicitly stated.
There was a moment when Jannah and he were running on top of that star destroyer and Finn needed to unlock or move something and he force-moved it and acted surprised when it happened.
This was replaced with a CGI’d BB-8 fixing whatever he needed to fix on there.

• Babu Frik was nearly cut because some execs at Disney thought he would be the new Jar Jar.
They are really surprised that people love him this much. He was JJ's idea and was created in collaboration with some artists and puppeteers.
The personality was all JJ.

• There were a bunch of scenes where Rey and Kylo (separately) went through quiet moments of reflection to deal with what they were going through.
On her part, her going through the realization that there's something sinister about her past.
Him going through regret and remorse but trying to shut it out.

My source said that the Kylo scenes were especially amazing because of Adam's performance and how he managed to portray that inner turmoil. It provided much more context and added deeper meaning to both his battle with Rey and the final redemption arc at the end. It didn't happen so suddenly and it was more structured than what we got.

• The Kylo/Rey scene where he dies was at least 4 minutes longer with more dialogue.
Ben was always supposed to die. Source also added that if he wasn’t, then that might’ve been in an earlier draft which they haven’t read. The first draft they read included Lando (the first few didn’t).

The Reylo kiss and Ben’s death was not part of the reshoots.
It was a part of the re-editing.
Even the cut that JJ thought was coming out earlier this month had a longer version of that scene than what was shown in the theatrical cut.

• JJ was against the Reylo kiss (or Reylo in general).
This was Disney's attempt to please both sides of the fandom.

• JJ was not happy with where TLJ took the story.
The final result is a mix of that story and the story told by Disney and whoever they tried to impress (“certainly not the fans”).

JJ is gutted over the final result. Star Wars means a lot to him.
He had to sacrifice large chunks of the story in TFA but he was promised more creative control on TROS and instead the leash they had him on was only tightened as time went by.

A source said that this is the one franchise and the one piece of his work that he didn't want to mess up and instead it turned into his worst nightmare. When he found out that he was blindsided with the cut they presented, he said "what the fuck??" when Kylo was fighting the Knights of Ren at the end and the Williams music that was used for it was not what he wanted at all. He seemed to think it was out of place.

• JJ's cut still exists and “will always exist”.
We most likely will never see it unless “someone accidentally leaks it.”






u/Lucasfilm_Insider @ r/StarWarsSpeculation


After Colin had left the project, Rian Johnson was immediately Lucasfilm’s top choice to take over however Iger and Horn weren’t impressed with The Last Jedi and thought it was a step down from The Force Awakens, this prompted Iger to personally offer Abrams the gig. JJ was not a fan of The Last Jedi, actually that’s putting it gently he absolutely loathed TLJ and has some serious beef with Rian Johnson, he only came back if he could have complete creative control and wouldn’t have to compromise with Kennedy or the Lucasfilm story group.

JJ’s first move was to consult with George Lucas on the story for Episode IX, they came up with a story that had strong connections to The Clone Wars tv show which featured the Dagger of Mortis and Matt Smith as the Son of Mortis which would’ve been the film’s antagonist. The story also used many elements from George Lucas’ unused Sequel Trilogy treatments. Disney really wanted this movie to be another Force Awakens in the sense that it will unite all fans and be at least initially universally loved, after Solo’s flop at the box office, TLJ backlash and the decline in Star Wars merch it was paramount for Disney that Episode IX be a success with fans, they did not want another Last Jedi on their hands.

The film’s direction changed radically during around mid-way of principle photography, JJ told the Disney executives that this film wouldn’t satisfy and unite all fans, this is where the studio meddling began which led to the second abandonment of George Lucas’ ideas. Nearly every story detail from the initial script was either completely abandoned or bastardized.

Palpatine was always to have a presence in this movie but not alive or as the main villain, the main villain was to be the Son of Mortis. Disney feared that the general audiences would be alienated, as they wouldn’t know who Son of Mortis was which would make the movie harder to market and this led to the choice of replacing the Son with Palpatine and Matt Smith was completely removed from the movie. Disney ordered extensive reshoots that went on throughout the year leading up until early October.

JJ Abrams was not happy with many of the changes that Disney made to The Rise of Skywalker, I don’t know the specifics but let’s just say he isn’t at all pleased with the final product. Essentially the majority of the movie was reshot and reconfigured this year at the same time leaving a ton of important scenes on the cutting room floor. I don't have any more new details on the making of The Rise of Skywalker other than that but I'm hoping that this post gets people with better sources to give out more details.



u/Lucasfilm_Insider

That is true, in JJ's original outline had Luke survive until IX with IX being the film where Luke passes, this was something that Colin was fighting hard to keep but Rian, KK and Kiri Hart wanted Luke dead in TLJ. I also know for a fact that the Lucasfilm Story Group hates George Lucas, JJ Abrams and Colin Trevorrow, they only like Rian.

u/Lucasfilm_Insider

I know, he asked to keep Luke alive and was hellbent on it which is why he left, they held off news of his departure for a couple months because they didn't want to announce it at the same time Book of Henry was out.

u/Lucasfilm_Insider

The film they were filming in 2018 was the version of Episode IX that JJ and Terrio wrote based on a story that JJ and George came up with in late 2017. JJ went to George to ask for his help with coming up with a story for Episode IX since all of JJ’s plot threads and ideas that he had from TFA were all but destroyed in TLJ.

Let’s call that cut the JJ/Lucas cut. Disney was not impressed with the JJ/Lucas cut and feared it could be another TLJ, they ordered to completely change it, that’s why this film had a ton of reshoots. The film in theatres now is the Iger cut which is Disney completely changing the initial film into what they thought would be the most profitable version of it.

There is only those two versions of the film however there are numerous different versions of the climax, some are slight variations from each other and others are just completely different.
However I seriously doubt the JJ/Lucas cut is anywhere close to being finished.

u/Lucasfilm_Insider

Why does the story group hate Lucas?

I don’t know the exact details but a lot of them don’t respect George Lucas and see the original films as ‘problematic’ in a social/political sense, yeah I know I hate going down that path too, it’s also why Galaxy’s Edge has barely any OT/PT characters. Oddly enough the film they hated most was actually TFA, they loathed the fact that Han Solo had a big role in TFA and was factor to why Luke was killed off a movie a head of schedule.

u/Lucasfilm_Insider

This is my theory, Iger and Horn weren't fans of TLJ but they didn't foresee the destruction it would cause otherwise they would've ordered reshoots.
Star Wars in mid-2017 was at an all time high, they probably didn't think TLJ would hurt the brand as they saw Star Wars as indestructible.

They got JJ Abrams back because Iger trusted JJ and preferred his more fun and adventure filled take on Star Wars to Rian's. JJ had problems with Kathleen Kennedy and the LFLSG on TFA so JJ wanted to have authority over them on this film and Iger said that the only person he would have to report to his him. JJ, being the big Star Wars fan that he is, would've foreseen the backlash that TLJ caused. After the backlash, the under performance of TLJ (yes they expected TLJ to hit 1.7B), the Solo bombing and decline in merch, it was clear to Disney that they couldn't take any chances with TROS, they needed it to be a hit like TFA.

JJ probably said to them something along the lines of "this won't make everyone happy but this is the best chance we have" and Iger was like no we must please everyone from Fandom Menace to Reylos alike. I think JJ probably thought Iger wouldn't medal with his movie as Iger was the one who wanted JJ for IX.

THE JJ-LUCAS CUT


Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 8:07 pm
 
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prox wrote:
JJ’s first move was to consult with George Lucas on the story for Episode IX, they came up with a story that had strong connections to The Clone Wars tv show which featured the Dagger of Mortis and Matt Smith as the Son of Mortis which would’ve been the film’s antagonist. The story also used many elements from George Lucas’ unused Sequel Trilogy treatments.


Jesus H mutherfuckn Christ


Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 8:35 pm
 
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and... the ugly truth now just came out.
Now do you guys understand why I would label Disney lovers, “Disney cucks?” It’s because they would eat up the shit Bob Iger force feeds them.

(As Yoda)
Begun has, the Lucas-Disney War.

RogueOne, this is what I warned you about in private message.. if Disney can shove their shit down JJ Abrams’ and George Lucas’ throats, they will do the same to Steven Spielberg with Indiana Jones.


Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 8:40 pm
 
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It wouldn't surprise me in the least if this is indeed what happened. The Matt Smith casting was reported by many different websites for it not to have been true. Very bizarre.

The Son as IX's villain probably would have been considered just as out of left field as resurrected Sidious but I definitely would have much preferred The Son. That would have at least been something fresh and new whereas Sidious was just another OT rehash in a trilogy already full of them.


Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 8:43 pm
 
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Thundercracker wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if this is indeed what happened. The Matt Smith casting was reported by many different websites for it not to have been true. Very bizarre.

The Son as IX's villain probably would have been considered just as out of left field as resurrected Sidious but I definitely would have much preferred The Son. That would have at least been something fresh and new whereas Sidious was just another OT rehash in a trilogy already full of them.



But the leaker did say that palpatine was always intended to be in the movie just in a different way so maybe the Son had a connection to Palpatine like somehow resurrecting him?


Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 8:51 pm
 
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It probably would have been Matt Smith masquerading as Ian at first. I think Disney underestimated just how much George's presence would have mattered here. If they had advertised that he had come back and was working with JJ, most fans would have accepted 9 just because of the fact that "the Maker" was involved.

I do agree though that the Son of Mortis may have been a bit obscure, but it wouldn't have been impossible to do.
They wouldn't have even had to change the dialogue that much "I am all of the Sith". Audiences are smart enough to get it.

Still, I really wish they would talk about why they didn't go for the low hanging fruit of using Plagueis as the final boss. I just don't get why.


Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 8:56 pm
 
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Yes, what Monari said. One of The Son's abilities in Clone Wars was shape shifting and I believe ki adi moonshine's spoilers did indicate that the Son would have taken the form of Palpatine at various points.


Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 8:57 pm
 
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So now guys, are you sorry you ate up TROS without looking at the facts?
Like I said, time to disavow the Sequel Trilogy completely.


Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 10:01 pm
 
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Matches what I was told.
Surprised it’s coming out.
Explains why the film feels like multiple films in one


Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 10:30 pm
 
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Matt Smith was announced as a part of the cast in August 2018.
In March, Smith stated that he was not in the film and his name was removed from the cast list in May.

During the development of Episode IX, I read speculation that he was either a Sith cultist, a Knight of the Ren, or a younger version of Palpatine.

This past August Mr. moonshine revealed the wonderful scoop that he was the Mortis Son.
He does look just like the Clone Wars model.

Image
Image

Is Lucas' silence about TROS quiet confirmation that his ST treatment got double-fucked by Disney?


Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 10:34 pm
 
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E_CHU_TA! wrote:
Is Lucas' silence about TROS quiet confirmation that his ST treatment got double-fucked by Disney?


Yep, Lucas got fucked twice. That explains why he was MIA from TROS World Premiere. You gotta wonder if employees at LFL tried to express their sentiments about the chaos and was suddenly silenced by Disney ninjas. They had to know all about this.

If it's any consolation, TROS flopped at the box office judging from the opening weekend estimates.


Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 10:40 pm
 
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ki adi moonshine wrote:
Matches what I was told.
Surprised it’s coming out.
Explains why the film feels like multiple films in one



It's sad that JJ Abrams is a Mega producer and Director yet all it took was a giant corporate machine to ram their demands down his throat. I guarantee you, he won't be doing anything for Disney after this.


Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 10:47 pm
 

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If I may, a $374M global opening weekend for Episode IX, while not great and disappointing, is not a confirmed flop. We’ll just have to wait until next weekend and throughout the holidays to see if it can bounce back and make a billion worldwide when all is said and done. It does have Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Year’s Eve and New Year’s Day coming up. It might be able to keep it afloat for a while longer.

I will say that The Fandom Menace, including @kyle, will now try to make this look like a victory and use the quotes from the ridiculed scene of the chase with Rey and crew escaping stormtroopers on Passanba to their advantage like this:

C-3PO: “OH, THEY FLOP NOW!”
Finn: “They flop now?!?!?!?”
Poe: “They flop now.”

You know if you really wanna consider avoiding it after Disney has done things that crushed you personally, then, boycott Episode IX and see any other movies not named Star Wars like 1917, Cats, Spies in Disguise, Little Women, Uncut Gems, Just Mercy or Bombshell


Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 10:56 pm
 
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Freezus wrote:
You gotta wonder if employees at LFL tried to express their sentiments about the chaos and was suddenly silenced by Disney ninjas. They had to know all about this.

This may explain why someone at Lucasfilm leaked motherfucking everything to Jedi Paxis - Revenge!


Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 10:58 pm
 
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RogueOne1216 wrote:
You know if you really wanna consider avoiding it after Disney has done things that crushed you personally, then, boycott Episode IX and see any other movies not named Star Wars like 1917, Cats, Spies in Disguise, Little Women, Uncut Gems, Just Mercy or Bombshell


And since we're also naming Disney properties, Marvel is one of them. You're suggesting I avoid Marvel Superheroes films that includes all of the Phase Four/Five tv shows and movies. Done. I haven't gone to any Marvel films since. See how easy that is?

1917? I've seen enough WW I/II films in the last 30 years. We don't need another one this soon after Dunkirk.
Cats? A movie for girls.. Gotcha. You thought me, a 40 year old guy would go see a movie about humanoid cats?
Spies in Disguise? Again, I don't care for a kids' movie.
Little Women? I can skip because I've seen the original.
Uncut Gem? Adam Sandler? Yawn.
Just Mercy is whatever.
Bombshell yawn- I don't have Amazon Prime and could care less about it.


Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 11:06 pm
 

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E_CHU_TA! wrote:
This may explain why someone at Lucasfilm leaked motherfucking everything to Jedi Paxis - Revenge!

Hmm, maybe.

Freezus wrote:
And since we're also naming Disney properties, Marvel is one of them. You're suggesting I avoid Marvel Superheroes films that includes all of the Phase Four/Five tv shows and movies. Done. I haven't gone to any Marvel films since. See how easy that is?

Good luck with your MCU boycott. The MCU fanbase is more bigger and more younger with millennials than Star Wars is. You’re only wasting your time with your boycott. You should quit your whiny about Star Wars, Disney and Marvel, quit the Internet, control that temper of yours and go get a job.

Also, if none of the movies I said interest you, What about Jumanji: The Next Level?


Post Posted: December 22nd 2019 11:17 pm
 
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RogueOne1216 wrote:
What about Jumanji: The Next Level?


Skippable. I haven't even watched the first one in a theater. I finally got to see it when it hit EPIX and I was like ehh not as good as the original.

And you do realize millennials is what gave us Trump and everything that's wrong with the world? They're the ones who demanded that theaters show nothing but Marvel films. I can't even go see an indie film in theaters...I have to wait until they hit Redbox or FIOS Cable. I mean, I'm a Gen Xer and I've seen Millennials' stupid war with the Baby Boomers on social media. They're what's wrong with our society. I can't wait for the 2020s to roll around so they can realize man buns and extreme piercings and all that shit was ridiculous to have in the first place.

Just remember, I'm always gonna be #TeamLucas. All the Disney cucks can fuck off.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 2:53 am
 
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Thank you prox for the topic which has been updated with further responses by "Lucasfilm_Insider" on "StarWarsSpeculation" of which whose username along with the subreddit name itself makes the information open to questioning.

However I find the information to be logical and believable regardless. I backed ki adi moonshine given the fact many of us posted alongside him for two decades now, the sources of the information, and the fact Lucas has always stated Palpatine does not come back in Force Spirit form or otherwise. Going full Mortis features a way to showcase prior past characters and locations in Disney's theme park movies through visions and "forcebacks" while re-visiting the remains and wreckage of past film's environments.

From Iger's perspective revisiting aspects from the Clone Wars after the performance of Solo (which featured Maul as sequel bait) might not have been wise or least to Bob that is. Factor in the passing of Carrie Fisher whose character was to be featured prominently in the last chapter of the Disney Trilogy. The result is a finished product which features two "legacy" actors returning to take the place of Carrie Fisher: Ian McDiarmid and Billy Dee Williams.


In terms of the ki/MF report there is a case to be made that aspects made it into the final film:

Exegol as a stand-in for Mortis
The Dark Side is personified in the form of the Son (Snoke)
The Dark Side is personified in the form of the Palpatine (Dead).
The Dagger
The Jedi Texts.
The End: Tatooine and the Binary Sunset.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 7:38 am
 
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Freezus wrote:
So now guys, are you sorry you ate up TROS without looking at the facts?


Nope. I still like the movie. There is always political bullshit that goes on during the making of any big-budget movie.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 7:45 am
 
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But is it the movie that you wanted? Or some other guy’s movie? I personally would have wanted the cut that Lucas and Abrams both wanted to show us but was denied. Remember this isn’t your or Abrams’ movie. It’s just some forced shit that Bob Iger just spoon fed you.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 8:35 am
 
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I don't know what movie I "wanted." I went in with a clear mind and thought it was cool. I was hoping to see it again over the weekend, but it didn't happen. I'll go again today or tomorrow for a 2nd more critical viewing.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 10:14 am
 

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I dont buy 90% of this... nobody knows Mortis but us... you guys have to think to the below average common denominator, not the lowest, but close.
This movie was closer to an AVATAR: Earthbender movie than the mortis trilogy.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 10:54 am
 
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Iger's a pretty good filmmaker, then. :lol:

I'm sure the sequel trilogy lost its credibility for many of us the moment it rehashed OT designs and kicked any interest in innovation to the curb. It's been a fun, albeit superficial, ride but clearly nothing near what it could have been with Lucas or a more consistent creative force at the helm throughout.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 1:00 pm
 
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This is all speculation and not real. Stop reporting peoples' feelings and sentiments as if you know them personally.
This is US weekly-level garbage.


Why does the story group hate Lucas?

I don’t know the exact details but a lot of them don’t respect George Lucas and see the original films as ‘problematic’ in a social/political sense, yeah I know I hate going down that path too, it’s also why Galaxy’s Edge has barely any OT/PT characters. Oddly enough the film they hated most was actually TFA, they loathed the fact that Han Solo had a big role in TFA and was factor to why Luke was killed off a movie a head of schedule.


So, people who are in the story group, presumably because they actually like Star Wars, hate the trilogy of films that started and are probably responsible for them even getting interested in the property in the first place. So then, they hate the PT because...reasons? They hate Lucas because of other...reasons.

BUT WAIT, the sequel trilogy is OK! Long live Rey! EXCEPT...they actually hate TFA and the filmmaker who brought them their beloved heroine. So basically, the only Star Wars "thing" the story group even likes is TLJ...which post-dated their involvement in Star Wars storytelling by 5 years.

Thanks for clearing up that nonsense for me.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 1:44 pm
 
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Bandersnatch wrote:
I don't know what movie I "wanted." I went in with a clear mind and thought it was cool. I was hoping to see it again over the weekend, but it didn't happen. I'll go again today or tomorrow for a 2nd more critical viewing.



To say you’re ok with film is like accepting a cheap kind of steak from a Golden Corral when you know you could have done better by making them offer you a sirloin steak that they took away from you.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 1:55 pm
 
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CoGro wrote:
This is all speculation and not real. Stop reporting peoples' feelings and sentiments as if you know them personally. This is US weekly-level garbage.

You do realize the leak lines up with ki moonshines leak? So you’re saying we shouldn’t be human when we react with emotion to something like Lucas getting double fucked by Disney? We both know Lucas and Abrams deserved better than to be treated like shit by Disney. Ok, Spock whatever you say.

And as for Galaxy’s Edge. You say it’s devoid of OT/PT characters? There’s even no one there except for a bunch of teenagers from Florida who mans all the rides, and the restaurants there. Like I said it’s a ghost town because star wars under Iger largely flopped and it just proves that the park itself was a massive waste of money.

Enjoy your cheap steak while you’re strapped in a baby booster while Iger force feeds you. The sad part? He knows you’ll eat shit up and he’ll keep doing it to you until you feel numb from it all. Remember you said the ST needed a purpose to be relevant to the rest of the saga.. guess what? There’s not any and the whole trilogy was unnecessary. The real saga ended with Episode VI.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 2:37 pm
 
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Freezus wrote:
You do realize the leak lines up with ki moonshines leak? So you’re saying we shouldn’t be human when we react with emotion to something like Lucas getting double fucked by Disney? We both know Lucas and Abrams deserved better than to be treated like shit by Disney. Ok, Spock whatever you say.

And as for Galaxy’s Edge. You say it’s devoid of OT/PT characters? There’s even no one there except for a bunch of teenagers from Florida who mans all the rides, and the restaurants there. Like I said it’s a ghost town because star wars under Iger largely flopped and it just proves that the park itself was a massive waste of money.

Enjoy your cheap steak while you’re strapped in a baby booster while Iger force feeds you. The sad part? He knows you’ll eat shit up and he’ll keep doing it to you until you feel numb from it all. Remember you said the ST needed a purpose to be relevant to the rest of the saga.. guess what? There’s not any and the whole trilogy was unnecessary. The real saga ended with Episode VI.


That's not my point. If you want to report an event, that can be proven or disproven with empirical data, I'll listen to it. The JP leaks are accurate because they are a description of actual events that can be confirmed by other living people, including yourself. They were presented from an emotionless place: they just are what they are.

When you're reporting "emotion," who felt what about whom, it is complete conjecture since it cannot be confirmed by a reputable human source. It might be corroborated, but you don't know how, from who, or why. It's hearsay nonsense until the individuals being "reported on" come forward and do a tell-all.

Nothing against Ki Adi, it's just that s/he and/or other similar minded folks might have an axe to grind. They might hate JJ, GL, KK, RJ...they might despise their ideas, their personality, the way they work with others...or the complete opposite and present the story based on their own emotional baggage. My point is that this isn't news because they aren't confirmed facts.

Even Pablo Hidalgo wouldn't have the access needed to get "stories" like this into the public. You have someone commenting on intimate conversations between people and inferring how they must have personally felt about circumstances... it's hogwash.

I also don't know why you're attacking me with this Galaxy's Edge nonsense as if I'm a shareholder for Disney parks or some kind of Disney Shill. I don't fucking care about any money Iger or Disney makes from Star Wars, let alone how much money they spend on it. It's not mine. Second of all, I was there and it wasn't a ghost town. It was really enjoyable and I'm sorry this personal vendetta you have against Disney will get in the way of you enjoying it as well.

Third, I'll get to my comments on TROS and the ST in general when I have the time. However, I'm capable of not conflating my feelings about one thing with how I feel about another.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 2:47 pm
 
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Freezus wrote:
To say you’re ok with film is like accepting a cheap kind of steak from a Golden Corral when you know you could have done better by making them offer you a sirloin steak that they took away from you.


No, it simply means that you and I have differing opinions about it.

And I've never been to Golden Corral. :|


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 3:08 pm
 
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Freezus all triggered and butt hurt because Rey is a Palpatine not a Skywalker LOL


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 3:31 pm
 
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Complete conjecture here , but I could see why the story group could be frustrated with what went on if indeed there were significant changes in direction and the exclusion of Lucas's ideas (again). Imagine preparing for a film that involved the Mortis Gods, in particular The Son, who was to be the antagonist. This is the MF way. I was digging the Ki Adi leaks and was hoping they would go deep into that stuff. I knew it might alienate the general audience goer but who gives a fuck at this point. The Son could have been showing visions, Plagueis would have showed up, could have been a way to re-introduce Sidious too without it actually being Sidious.

As it stands I still don't believe what we saw was Palpatine as we knew him - more like a twisted dark side conjuring inside the Palpatine shell. He even quotes the line from the Opera scene verbatim so this tells me some unnatural darkside energy has re-animated him. I still see people questioning how he survived yet he clearly states he did die. This is the darkside "ability to cheat death" he seduced Anakin with.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 3:35 pm
 
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This all sounds a little far-fetched to me. So Lucas, after being screwed over by Abrams in TFA, jumps at the opportunity to get involved again? I don't see that as likely.

I do think the film feels like two films that were haphazardly cut down to one. No idea if that has anything to do with reshoots or what. Seems more like a problem with the script cramming way too much in.

The Palpatine stuff made no sense whatsoever and did feel like a late addition. An Abrams panic move.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 3:43 pm
 
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The source(s) on this topic should be enough to label this information as "rumor" or even fabricated.
The sources being:

• Reddit
• r/StarWarsSPECULATION
• Redditor who named themselves "Lucasfilm_Insider"

The reddit post does contain seeds of truth grown into a mostly well-written behind-the-scenes (possibly) fabricated forest. The seeds of truth being the effect The Last Jedi has on Disney's Star Wars, struggles between Abrams versus Disney versus The Story Group, Matt Smith and "The Dagger" - whose mere presence would bring up the obvious Mortis connections.

In other news the release date for The Art of The Rise of Skywalker has been moved to March 31 2020 which contrasts with the previous two books which were released around their respective film's theatrical premiere. The Art Of series features unused plotlines in addition to conceptual art so we'll know then who did what where and when.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 5:11 pm
 
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Meanwhile... https://www.starwars.com/databank/jannah
I would so pee in her butt.

:bunnys:


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 5:13 pm
 
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yeah it is strange that the novelisation and the Art Of TROS books are delayed until around the time of the Blu-Ray / Digital media release of the film.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 5:18 pm
 
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SI wrote:
yeah it is strange that the novelisation and the Art Of TROS books are delayed until around the time of the Blu-Ray / Digital media release of the film.

I wonder why that is. Did the novelisations / audio books / Art of books for the other films come out that many months later? Also the "Skywalker Saga" Blu Ray set is also scheduled for March.


Image


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 5:43 pm
 
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SI wrote:
Freezus all triggered and butt hurt because Rey is a Palpatine not a Skywalker LOL


SI all triggered because I exposed him as a Trump sheep LOL

But, Seriously, through. You think I'm even triggered over that? No, What Disney has treated Lucas up to now is what bothers me... it's all bad business. Nothing personal as CoGro was stupid enough to assume that I have a personal vendetta agaist Disney when it's all about knowing that Disney is in the wrong here since they've done bad business here. When TLJ shit the bed regarding the Skywalker lineage. I gave up and stopped caring from that point on because remember in 2017, I told you that Disney would fuck TROS up and they did.

But hey, keep waving your confederate/Nazi flag if it makes you feel secure but in reality it makes you a flaming Trump-loving racist.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 5:47 pm
 
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SI wrote:
Complete conjecture here , but I could see why the story group could be frustrated with what went on if indeed there were significant changes in direction and the exclusion of Lucas's ideas (again). Imagine preparing for a film that involved the Mortis Gods, in particular The Son, who was to be the antagonist. This is the MF way.

I was digging the Ki Adi leaks and was hoping they would go deep into that stuff. I knew it might alienate the general audience goer but who gives a fuck at this point. The Son could have been showing visions, Plagueis would have showed up, could have been a way to re-introduce Sidious too without it actually being Sidious.

As it stands I still don't believe what we saw was Palpatine as we knew him - more like a twisted dark side conjuring inside the Palpatine shell. He even quotes the line from the Opera scene verbatim so this tells me some unnatural darkside energy has re-animated him. I still see people questioning how he survived yet he clearly states he did die. This is the darkside "ability to cheat death" he seduced Anakin with.


But you're forgetting one thing that Palpatine in Episode III was capable of lying to everyone and even manipulated Anakin into thinking that Palpatine can save his wife. But, Palpatine LIED and let her die right there in childbirth. So how can he resurrect himself if he can't even save a pregnant woman that carried two major threats to his regime in her womb?

Bandersnatch wrote:
No, it simply means that you and I have differing opinions about it. And I've never been to Golden Corral. :|

Okay, then Sizzler. Is that better?

You claim I have a different opinion, yet says I'm wrong about TROS, isn't that basically ramming your "opinion" down my throat, basically pulling a Bob Iger here?

CoGro wrote:
When you're reporting "emotion," who felt what about whom, it is complete conjecture since it cannot be confirmed by a reputable human source. It might be corroborated, but you don't know how, from who, or why. It's hearsay nonsense until the individuals being "reported on" come forward and do a tell-all. Nothing against Ki Adi, it's just that s/he and/or other similar minded folks might have an axe to grind.

They might hate JJ, GL, KK, RJ...they might despise their ideas, their personality, the way they work with others...or the complete opposite and present the story based on their own emotional baggage. My point is that this isn't news because they aren't confirmed facts. Even Pablo Hidalgo wouldn't have the access needed to get "stories" like this into the public. You have someone commenting on intimate conversations between people and inferring how they must have personally felt about circumstances...it's hogwash.

I also don't know why you're attacking me with this Galaxy's Edge nonsense as if I'm a shareholder for Disney parks or some kind of Disney Shill. I don't fucking care about any money Iger or Disney makes from Star Wars, let alone how much money they spend on it. It's not mine. Second of all, I was there and it wasn't a ghost town. It was really enjoyable and I'm sorry this personal vendetta you have against Disney will get in the way of you enjoying it as well.

Third, I'll get to my comments on TROS and the ST in general when I have the time. However, I'm capable of not conflating my feelings about one thing with how I feel about another.

Here's the thing... You're assuming that Ki Adi is someone was hurt by Disney and wants revenge against Disney himself...See... another backwoods stupid assumption from you. The truth? He's just a blogger on a small website that he owns so how can he have an axe to grind with Disney? I mean, Kyle is the type of person that you just described. Ki Adi Moonshine? Far from it. I know, because I have seen his work. Whatever Ki Adi Moonshine wrote and shared... He doesn't look like the "I want revenge" type of person.

I attacked you because you attacked me first in the other thread, Remember? And you made several attempts to try to get me off this sites over the years because you couldn't stand the idea of someone who can see through your illusion of "Oh, I think I'm a pretentious asshole." When in reality you're just a lonely nerd boy who goes around bragging that you went to a Disney Park when I've read and heard nothing but bad reviews of Galaxy's Edge. The Media that reviewed it will tell you as of right now it's expensive and a ghost town because no one can afford a $200 lightsaber, and no one is allowed to cosplay, and have fun because they're afraid of "terrorism." So, If you claim that it's not a ghost town, great, but I would rather believe The Verge, and Gizmodo over you. One person's opinion doesn't mean shit compared to several media outlets that went there and covered everything.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 6:02 pm
 
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Bandersnatch wrote:
https://thedigitalbits.com/images/columns/bill_hunt_04/starwarssaga4k.jpg

You really gonna pay $300 for that shit? That makes you a Disney cuck.
I'll just get a 4K trilogy set at a time without all the extras.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 6:43 pm
 
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SI wrote:
yeah it is strange that the novelisation and the Art Of TROS books are delayed until around the time of the Blu-Ray / Digital media release of the film.

Bandersnatch wrote:
I wonder why that is. Did the novelisations / audio books / Art of books for the other films come out that many months later?


The same thing happened with the Marvel movie art books. They used to be released the same time as the movies but then for Infinity War, Endgame and SM:Far From Home they didn't release their respective books until months later. All the upcoming books appear to be using the same delayed release schedule now. The official line at least from one of the concept artists was that they pushed the art book release dates back to allow everyone a chance to see the film and avoid more spoilers. Thin reason. Very thin. :whateva:


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 8:02 pm
 
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SI wrote:
Freezus all triggered and butt hurt because Rey is a Palpatine not a Skywalker LOL

Freezus wrote:
SI all triggered because I exposed him as a Trump sheep LOL

Seriously, through. You think I'm even triggered over that? No, What Disney has treated Lucas up to now is what bothers me... it's all bad business. Nothing personal as CoGro was stupid enough to assume that I have a personal vendetta agaist Disney when it's all about knowing that Disney is in the wrong here since they've done bad business here. When TLJ shit the bed regarding the Skywalker lineage. I gave up and stopped caring from that point on because remember in 2017, I told you that Disney would fuck TROS up and they did.

But hey, keep waving your confederate/Nazi flag if it makes you feel secure but in reality it makes you a flaming Trump-loving racist.


I call you out for completely fucking up Rey's lineage and now I'm a Trump supporting nazi baby killer :vflamethrower:
What a fucking ride ! :chewbacca:


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 8:05 pm
 
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Freezus wrote:
But you're forgetting one thing that Palpatine in Episode III was capable of lying to everyone and even manipulated Anakin into thinking that Palpatine can save his wife. But, Palpatine LIED and let her die right there in childbirth. So how can he resurrect himself if he can't even save a pregnant woman that carried two major threats to his regime in her womb?


Why would Sidious try, or even be interested, in saving Padme?
That was never going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised is Palpatine had a hand in sending Padme to the afterlife.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 8:05 pm
 
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Freezus wrote:
Here's the thing... You're assuming that Ki Adi is someone was hurt by Disney and wants revenge against Disney himself...See... another backwoods stupid assumption from you. Blah blah blah

No I didn't, I said "might" by way of illustrative example. You know what, I don't care. You do you. I don't have the time to do this anymore. Live your life. Be happy.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 8:11 pm
 
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Freezus wrote:
You claim I have a different opinion, yet says I'm wrong about TROS, isn't that basically ramming your "opinion" down my throat, basically pulling a Bob Iger here?


I didn't say you were "wrong," just that we have a difference of opinion. I have no problem with your point of view. Why are you getting your panties in a knot over mine?

Bandersnatch wrote:
https://thedigitalbits.com/images/columns/bill_hunt_04/starwarssaga4k.jpg

Freezus wrote:
You really gonna pay $300 for that shit?

Probably not. But it looks cool.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 8:15 pm
 
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Man, lots of interesting stuff to unpack here.
In the context of this topic...for me... Lucas SW >>>>>>> Disney SW

The very existence of the Story Group always struck me as odd. If that group doesn't have *some* creative say in the direction of any given story, regardless of the medium in which it exists, why does Story Group exist at all? Unless it's a purely cosmetic group, to make the public think there's one cohesive direction of the overall story when in fact, there is not. And it's not an unreasonable take to say there is no cohesive direction when lining up the stark differences between TFA and TLJ.

I have long speculated that the existence of the ST was driven by financial motivations (to pay back the investors who helped Disney write that $4 billion check to George), rather than creative motivations. The OT and PT sprang from George's creative motivations first, financial motivations second. That difference has been exposed, given how wildly certain story elements have swung between the films of the ST. I don't really feel much sympathy for Disney in this matter. Disney made its bed when it kept throwing the PRACTICAL EFFECTS shade at the PT in the lead-up to TFA. For George, that had to cross a line that, justifiably, shouldn't have been able to be uncrossed.

It also appears to be an irrefutable fact that the franchise hasn't had a smooth road in its creative personnel and direction. Look at how many key personnel changes there have been across these 5 films under Kennedy's direction. It also strikes me as strange that the one director that seems to have engineered a good production plus a fairly universally loved film, Gareth Edwards, has dropped off the LFL radar completely. And I don't want to hear about Rogue One's reshoots. Yet it had them. So does every other big-budget movie made in the past 40 years.

I haven't been to Galaxy's Edge yet (going in May), but I bet within 5 years, you'll see much more of an OT presence than the current ST presence. Easy enough to swap out ST stormtroopers for OT stormtroopers, Kylo Ren for Vader, Vi for a Rebellion-era spy, etc. That all seems like a fairly easy swap. But would such a swap be a concession on Disney's part that it misread its audience? And is it too prideful to admit anything like that?

The inner machinations of Iger/Disney/LFL/Kennedy etc. are interesting to me, but they ultimately don't affect my enjoyment of all Star Wars films. That includes the ST, which in my 1-11 ranking of the movies, rank 9-10-11.

At the end of the day, I'm glad the ST exists, though I am more glad Rogue One and Solo exist. But having seen TROS twice, I also don't believe the ST was necessary. It's like having a second controller for your PS4. While it's nice to have, it doesn't actually upgrade anything.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 8:22 pm
 
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MannyOrtez wrote:
This all sounds a little far-fetched to me. So Lucas, after being screwed over by Abrams in TFA, jumps at the opportunity to get involved again? I don't see that as likely.


People keep forgetting that George has about $2 billion in Disney stock as part of the buyout. It's ultimately still in his best financial interest to help Disney out, even if he has to hold his nose doing so.

SI wrote:
yeah it is strange that the novelisation and the Art Of TROS books are delayed until around the time of the Blu-Ray / Digital media release of the film.


I saw someone post an image of what I thought was the ROTS novelization on Reddit somewhere, which explained that the blue explosion at the end of ROTJ was actually Palpatine opening up a wormhole in the Force to Exogol.

Bandersnatch wrote:
https://thedigitalbits.com/images/columns/bill_hunt_04/starwarssaga4k.jpg


They're really missing a golden rebranding opportunity here to move more of these discs:

Ep 1 - The early years
Ep 2 - The rise to power
Ep 3 - Overthrowing the Jedi and enslaving Skywalker
Ep 4 - Not seen, but his Empire is omnipresent
Ep 5 - Taking a personal interest again and identifying the return of the Skywalker threat
Ep 6 - The fake-out death
Ep 7 - His granddaughter is the MC, and return in the form of the Snoke veneer
Ep 8 - Same as 7
Ep 9 - The big reveal, the "real" death but with resounding victory as his granddaughter survives to claim the Skywalker legacy and end the Skywalker bloodline forever

It's the Palpatine Saga


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 8:34 pm
 

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There's maybe some overall broad strokes stuff anyone could surmise, but this 100% "insider" is full of shit. This is not true.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 8:40 pm
 
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The novelization for TFA (which sucked) came out simultaneously with the movie.
The TLJ novelization came out on my birthday (March 6 2018), a few months after TLJ was in theaters.
The TROS novel comes out on a similar date, March 3, 2020.

This is the first time an Art Of book hasn't come out at the same time as the film's release in the Disney era. A Making of Solo book came out quite a while after that film. I do recall the Art Of book author, Phil Stozak, said they had to hold some art back in the TFA book (Luke and Snoke). I wonder if a similar decision was made for the Art Of TROS book.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 8:54 pm
 
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CoGro wrote:

No I didn't, I said "might" by way of illustrative example. You know what, I don't care. You do you. I don't have the time to do this anymore. Live your life. Be happy.


The fact that you edited my quote shows that you know you were wrong about Ki Adi and myself.

Keep living in your fake pretentious world, because you don't want to face reality and everyone knows this about you. You just don't want to admit it.

Like I said, Once I get in one viewing of TROS then I'm done with SW as a whole.


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 8:57 pm
 
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SI wrote:
I call you out for completely fucking up Rey's lineage and now I'm a Trump supporting nazi baby killer
What a fucking ride !

You didn't call me out since I did say it flat out since 2017 that Disney would find a way to fuck it up and they literally undid the whole narrative of the saga.
But hey, keep attacking me, a deaf guy because that's what Nazis like you do best right?

SI wrote:
Why would Sidious try, or even be interested, in saving Padme?
That was never going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised is Palpatine had a hand in sending Padme to the afterlife.

Because, he lied to convince Anakin. It was easy for Palpatine to say, "look, Jedi hate our alliance, help me overthrow them for the good of the galaxy!"


Post Posted: December 23rd 2019 9:06 pm
 
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royalguard96 wrote:
Man, lots of interesting stuff to unpack here.
In the context of this topic...for me... Lucas SW >>>>>>> Disney SW

The very existence of the Story Group always struck me as odd. If that group doesn't have *some* creative say in the direction of any given story, regardless of the medium in which it exists, why does Story Group exist at all? Unless it's a purely cosmetic group, to make the public think there's one cohesive direction of the overall story when in fact, there is not. And it's not an unreasonable take to say there is no cohesive direction when lining up the stark differences between TFA and TLJ.


I see the Story Group as the canon junkies at LFL.

They basically prevent the filmamkers from butchering, or contradicting, the canon.
Although I feel the rules of canon get bent sometimes to suit the narrative.


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