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Post Posted: October 27th 2019 12:32 pm
 
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Forgive me if there is another thread with this, but does anyone else think Ben Solo has gone deep undercover to defeat the dark side from within?

Ever since the cryptic scene in TFA where Kylo says "I know what I have to do...Will you help me?" it seemed to me there was more to Han's death than just Sithy evil at play. And the fact that it cuts away, and then Han touches his son's face as if to say "Good Boy!"

Somebody help me remember which novel had Luke turning to the dark side, just to defeat Palpatine. I know that was a legends plot. Lots of that being recycled it seems.

This explains why Kylo's tendencies for the light are so important. He has to PROVE he is evil enough to be Ren. He has to stir up his anger by choking adorable ensigns and smashing his helmet. Benny just wants to be nice, but he has to play up his temper if he can ever get close enough to Palps to punch his lights out.

"Dad, will you help me kill you? Then Snoke will believe I am serious!" This way Ford gets his wish: Han dies a heroic death, and not like some b@#. I mean, he practically fell on Kylos lightsaber. Well ... maybe he did!

This perspective changes Kylos meaning when he says "I will finish what you started." He's not talking about the destruction of his own family, he is talking about the destruction of the Emperor and the greatest evil, as JJ calls him.

Speaking of lies, manipulation, and cloaked intent: some leaks say all of Palpy's dirty tricks will be revealed. Playing both sides, perhaps even the "rebellion", and getting people to fight each other instead of looking at the bastard at the top. I don't think this will be news to Kylo. I think he knows all about it. And he is working hard to hide his true intentions behind fits of rage.


Post Posted: October 28th 2019 5:57 am
 
OBGYN
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No.


Post Posted: October 28th 2019 7:27 am
 
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I like the way you think SithWitch. It wasn't a novel, it was limited run Dark Horse comic called Dark Empire. Wow, I'm actually seeing parallels now. Luke went deep cover to defeat the Palps clone. Leia had to bring him back and help in the fight. And they introduced world destroying battleships. I can't remember if it took both of them to take him down or not. Dang it, now I have to go dig that out of storage and reread it.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Empire


Post Posted: October 28th 2019 7:46 am
 
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Yes! Dark Empire. I thought it was a Zahn novel, but you are right. It was the cloned Palpy comics.

In general, I feel like there is so little information about backstory, intentions, character arcs etc. But I recall the same thing when ESB came out. I was like WHAA? Why is Luke so intent on not killing Vader? What makes Luke think he needs to toss his lightsaber aside? Yoda did not teach him that, and Aunt Beru is not portrayed as a great bestower of gentle wisdom. Maybe Padme came to him in his dreams?

My point is that so much about Vader was revealed in the prequels that explains the seemingly inexplicable end of ROTJ. Why on earth would anyone, especially Luke, think there was even the slightest chance in hell that Vader would do anything except follow the Emperor/try to become Emperor? What clue is there ANYWHERE in the OT? I was totally confused by this at the time. Only after 30 years of backfill does it kind of, sort of, slightly, make sense.

So what does that have to do with this thread? Well, I am suggesting that there might be a lot more going on in THIS situation as well. We just don't have the backfill yet. Who would have thought Vader was really a nice guy ... deep WAY WAY DEEP down?


Post Posted: November 2nd 2019 10:09 am
 

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I think that the idea is appealing, unfortunately there is very little support in the way TFA and TLJ set up the First Order to make the "Kylo is in Deep Cover" idea.
Think about this:
The Empire was defeated in VI. Emperor dead, Vader dead, Death Star blown up... The way Lucas presented his re-edition of VI included a shot of Coruscant in celebration of this.
Decades later, the rebellion is back to where they were: fighting an all mighty force that we never get to see how they came to be. As far as we were told, the rebellion became the Republic. How did they become the under dog again? Where did the first order come from?
In the OT we accepted that this was the status quo. With the ST we have background to consider: Empire lost, Republic won. Think of that wonderful opening shot in ANH: Big star destroyer chasing a small ship.
In TFA I found the Han Solo scene where he tells Rey that "... the Jedi, the Force, it's all true" was very out of character with the story as VI left it: The good guys won and they had a good 30-35 years to re-establish all that was before. What cataclysmic event happened that destroyed all of that? We are never told.

Without the narrative support of how and why the First Order became so powerful and dominant to the extent that it took the son of Han and Leia, namesake of Ben Kenobi, nephew and padawan to Luke Skywalker, to become a deep cover agent , I don't think it would be a good development. It would just be another "What the Phantom Menace?" moment for the fans of the OT.

Not to say that this could not be true, specially because it would be great under the right circumstances. If it is, it would be deeply unsatisfying from a narrative perspective.
My fear is that there are people that are incompetent enough to make this a reality.


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