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millenniumfalcon.com • View topic - After IX • Ranking The Saga
It is currently February 19th 2020 3:11 am




 
Post Posted: January 5th 2020 8:27 am
 
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Post Posted: January 5th 2020 12:06 pm
 
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So refreshing to see praise for Attack of the Clones.


1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. Return of the Jedi
4. A New Hope
5. Solo
6. Attack of the Clones
7. Rogue One
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Rise of Skywalker
10. The Last Jedi
11. The Force Awakens


Post Posted: January 5th 2020 12:29 pm
 
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1. Attack of the Clones. - Prelude to War / Anti-cheese Edit only
2. Empire
3. ANH
4. Last Jedi
5. Force Awakens
6. TPM
7. ROJ
8. Solo
9. Rogue
10. Revenge
11. Clone wars
12. Rise of skywalker


Post Posted: January 5th 2020 3:38 pm
 
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1. Star Wars
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. Return of the Jedi
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. The Phantom Menace
6. Attack of the Clones
7. The Rise of Skywalker
8. The Force Awakens
9. The Last Jedi


Post Posted: January 5th 2020 6:46 pm
 
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1. Attack of the Clones
2. The Phantom Menace
3. Revenge of the Sith
4. Return of the Jedi
5. A New Hope
6. The Empire Strikes Back
7. The Last Jedi
8. The Force Awakens
9. The Rise of Skywalker (#8 were it the Abrams cut)

For some context, the prequels dominated my adolescence.


Post Posted: January 5th 2020 9:44 pm
 
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ESB
ANH
-----> timeless classics
ROTJ
TFA
TLJ
-----> well made, but flawed Star Wars films
ROTS
TPM
-----> coherent, well-told stories but flawed filmmaking
TROS
AOTC
-----> incoherent storytelling, flawed filmmaking


Post Posted: January 5th 2020 11:25 pm
 
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1. A New Hope
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. Revenge of the Sith
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Phantom Menace
6. Attack of the Clones
7. Rogue One
8. Solo
9. Rise of Skywalker
10. The Force Awakens
11. The Last Jedi - I still maintain that this movie broke the franchise, but it was set up to do so by TFA. ROS was just stuck in a corner with no way out.


Post Posted: January 6th 2020 2:29 am
 

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1 - Empire Strikes Back
2 - A New Hope
3 - The Phantom Menace
4 - Return Of The Jedi
5 - Rogue One
6 - Revenge Of The Sith
7 - Attack Of The Clones
8 - The Force Awakens
9 - Rise Of Skywalker
10 - Last Jedi
11 - Solo

I grew up with Star Wars through the games in the 90s, actually. Rebel Assault, X-Wing, Tie Fighter, Rogue Squadron... Then the Special Editions got released and I was hooked (as the only familiy member, really). I was age 14 when The Phantom Menace released.

The reason I rank Phantom Menace so high is because it just shows the boundless imagination of Lucas (podracing, droid armies). It still gave me the adventurous feeling of a 80s-90s movie but with previously unseen visual spectacle.
The sequels don't do much for me, though I like some of the characters. Last Jedi had way too much subverting expectations regarding Luke, Snoke, Rey... I don't mind a good twist, but it felt like they saw every theory video on Youtube and did the exact same opposite.
Solo was atrocious to watch. And I mean that literally. I have a hard time seeing through that dull, washed out grey drab to be excited.


Post Posted: January 6th 2020 3:25 am
 
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Post Posted: January 6th 2020 3:40 am
 
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I'm convinced TESB isn't even a Star Wars film on account of its differing style and tone. I mean, why is this one film so often cast as the defining film of the franchise when it's so different from the majority of the original six entries? It feels like so many are in denial about what this franchise actually is when they insist so adamantly on TESB as the golden boy.

I'm about to get thrashed, aren't I? :shaman:


Post Posted: January 6th 2020 4:00 am
 
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I haven't done a ranking yet because I felt that it wouldn't be fair to you all if I did one without going to see TROS yet.

But I will tell you this. Some of you know I always have defended the Prequels during the PT Era. And some of you did bash me for it.

I liked TPM. It did what it was designed to do, set up the entire saga. There are some things I could have lived without for example, Jar Jar stepping on Bantha shit or kept Maul until AOTC. But as a whole, the film delivered on the setup, and the buildup to the next two movies. Unlike most people I was a fan of the OT, but I understood that the PT was set in a different time and era hence it wouldn't look like the OT that we all love and know. So, I went in to see TPM with low expectations. And guess what? I thoroughly enjoyed it.

AOTC had an interesting premise but the story did need more polish. Anakin going back to Tatooine and his whining didnt bother me because I was a lot like that when I was a teenager all the way into college. At the end of the movie, it was very cool that Palpatine basically manipulated the entire galaxy into starting another war.. it was an echo of what was happening in our real lives (the War in Iraq based on lies and by extension, what is about to happen with Iran.) To me, Palpatine was basically Bush misleading the galaxy on a bunch of lies. But the difference? Palpatine was pure evil because he was following the Sith playbook.

ROTS...I really, really loved this film. The journey from Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader (both before and after the suit) was really intriguing. You know he wasn't really evil as he explains why he needed to go bad in order to save his wife (and by extension, his unborn twin children.) He thought he needed Palpatine to save them but he was misled by Palpatine. So I can only empathize with Anakin because we understand what his motivations was and why he did this or there. The other part that really stood out for me was how the Old Republic morphed into the Galactic Empire and how Palpatine seized full control over the government. Afterwards, the group of senators that really represented the old core values of the Old Republic was suddenly blindsided by this and was like, "Fuck, now we need to organize a Rebellion to combat the new Emperor cause he's killing off the Jedi." I loved how that Padme was one of the founding members of this new Rebellion and that 20 years later, Leia would follow in her mother's footsteps. And the ending with Owen, Beru holding Baby Luke in their arms with the twin suns... PERFECTION. The reveal of the first Death Star even if it was just a skeleton at this point in time was really well done too.

As for Empire, Different is good because it was sad, more somber and more grander in scale compared to ANH yet... it retained that SW DNA. It respected what came before it and expanded on it. Yoda really did drive the entire movie because it made us all believe that a puppet was a living breathing alien who was once a Jedi Master for so many hundred years only to be defeated by The Emperor and Vader. The parts where Vader was chasing the Millennium Falcon because he wanted to find Luke was really well made. It made me believe that there was serious shit happening in space. The Vader/Luke duel? Perfection.

Now, compare Empire to The Last Jedi... Yes, TLJ tried to be different, but it ended up being TOO DIFFERENT and insulted our intelligence as a fandom in the process. Yes, the visuals are gorgeous, but that's about it. What Disney did to all the characters including Luke was insulting. I mean, have Luke do some kind of projecting then... dies. That was horrible. Even Luke hating on the Jedi and throwing his ANH/Empire Saber away felt completely out of character. If Lucas had directed this, he would have had Luke train Rey the whole movie then save him for IX. TLJ is no Empire but it did try too hard to be Empire and it backfired.

Disclaimer: My first real experience with SW post-OT was through the Super Star Wars SNES Trilogy. (Great SNES trilogy, really hard but fun to play through.) Then Rebel Assault 1-2, Yoda's Stories, Shadows of the Empire, and Rogue Squadron N64 followed after that. That was my real exposure to SW after years of watching the OT on VHS.. (I saw the CBS/Fox VHS set, a countless number of TV marathons before finally moving on to the 1995 THX VHS set.)


Post Posted: January 6th 2020 11:44 am
 

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TL;DR
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. The Phantom Menace
3. Return of the Jedi
4. A New Hope
5. The Rise of Skywalker
6. The Last Jedi
7. The Force Awakens
8. Revenge of the Sith
9. Attack of the Clones


Now before your criticize, this is all 100% scientific ranking after re-watching all films in order.

TESB is obviously no-brainer, plus I'm biased since that walker battle was dope af when I first saw it as a kid. But Empire has the best character development and story out of all the movies.

TPM is second, period. It is pure STAR WARS, straight out of George's mind without any influence of negative internet fan-bashing.

ROTJ, why the hell would you not love those stormtrooper devouring ewoks!? Plus we got Luke being a total badass embracing some darksides... he's wearing black and force chokes the guards in Jabba's palace.

ANH was always a little boorish to me... the desert, the sand.... I hate sand. But once we get to Mos Eisley and hop on the Death Star, hellz yeah!

TROS was schlocky as hell and I loved it. Out of the ST its the most fun, why the hell weren't Rey, Finn, Poe more together all the time!? UNLIMITED POWAAAAAH!

TLJ has grown on me. The Reylo stuff is good and I can dig dark Luke. It still reeks of Disney though, especially that 30 second Disney Parks ending with Broom Boy and shooting star.

TFA never did much for me. It better shot than EP2 and EP3, thank god for film, but man... why more of the same?? X-Wings, TIEs, New Han, Lady Luke, Teen Vader? This is a new era, show me something different.

ROTS is... a film. The last time the saga ended I was completely checked out. Yay, we're gonna wrap up all these threads into a Star Wars! Oooh, a 45min lightsaber swinging contest on lava!

AOTC is G. Lucas trolling us, right? This is all reaction to the fan backlash. Soo you want more lightsabers, okay Geonosis arena. Oh you want more stuff you've seen before, Yoda fights now! And we'll do it on digital and make it look flat as a soap opera!


Post Posted: January 6th 2020 2:58 pm
 
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Post Posted: January 6th 2020 4:15 pm
 
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It can't be scientific because as much as I hate to admit it these films are subjective, not objective. Objective is scientific. Film and art are not objective, they are subjective.


Post Posted: January 6th 2020 5:01 pm
 
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I have to agree with Ki Adi. Lucas has always said that the first six films was purely based on art. PT is based on 50s Art deco and OT is based on 70's art. Both trilogies even follows that kind of art both in story and filmmaking.

ST? There's no art in these films. No real style.. It was just basically Disney pressing ctrl+C then pasted into their movies from the OT.


Post Posted: January 6th 2020 5:52 pm
 

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There is art in the sequel trilogy, its just art you don't agree with or like. It has a style its just lacking a bit in substance, that being planned out story arcs and character development. But the prequels have that same problem, lack of character development. 2 & 3, Lucas wasn't even shooting scenes anymore. He started shooting elements that he could just edit in post. That's a huge flaw.

My criteria for ranking these movies:

1. Story - things happen for reasons
2. Character Development - being invested in the main characters and their growth
3. Newness Factor - seeing something we haven't before
4. Technical - acting, cinematography, continuity
5. Visual Effects - mind blowing awesomeness

TPM does very good in all of this, and the ST's do great in a few of these and fall flat in others. EP2 & EP3 just fall short in all of this. The biggest detriment is Anakin. The Obi/Qui Gon buddy cop team up of TPM is great, and unfortunately we don't get anything that investing in the next two. Obi-Wan and Anakins relationship sucks and is not entertaining. Plus the story is too concerned with hitting plot points we know vs telling a natural progressing story.


Post Posted: January 6th 2020 7:37 pm
 
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Yes I don't like TLJ and I think TROS is simply poorly put together, but, you're missing the point. Art is subjective. There is no scientific process (coming from someone who worked in social research) to this at all. Every single "criteria" you listed is subjective.

To be scientific it would need to be objective. And even your descriptions lack objectivity. sorry kthxbye


Post Posted: January 6th 2020 8:42 pm
 
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There is nothing subjective about the ST - They were made and rushed out so the Disney executives could go back to their shareholders and say, "look, we made back the $4 billions plus more that we paid out to Old Man Lucas for this shit."

The Sequel Trilogy is basically Jurassic Park in a sense - Executives took advantage of an old man and turned something so beloved into something that makes people wanna scream and cry.

in fact, the Sequel Trilogy should be known as the Profit Trilogy because that's what it was designed to do, maximize profits for Disney.


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Post Posted: January 7th 2020 10:32 am
 
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Post Posted: January 8th 2020 9:27 am
 
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My point was everyone thinks they are right, myself included. That's what makes this all subjective.

I just think your criteria is BS. All of it is purely subjective. I have my criteria, but I'm not saying that it's objective because we all view things differently.

I may have come off as harsh but to say your rankings are objective and scientific, coming from someone who has done scientific research, is kinda BS man. that's all. I respect your rankings though. I disagree, completely, but hey we all come from a different perspective and I respect that.


Post Posted: January 8th 2020 10:35 am
 
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A plot twist I never saw coming was an appreciation of the PT in light of the ST. The rankings listed so far, albeit a small sample size, seem to reflect more respect for the PT than I could have anticipated. Encouraging.

I realize this isn't very concrete, but the ST is lacking a George Lucas "soul" to it. I can't come up with a better term, but there's something uniquely Lucas about his films that distinguish them from anything else. Is it because I know he wasn't central in their story or production? A fun thought experiment would be to try to watch the ST without knowing who was responsible for the story, screenplay, direction, production, etc. of those films and ask yourself how much Lucas had to do with their making.

This, for me, ultimately comes down to the question of "Was the ST necessary to fully realize the Skywalker Saga?" My answer to that is a definitive "no." However, I am glad they exist. There's entertainment value there, and there are some amazing musical moments. A good ST exists out there, somewhere. But it has to fully address Ben Solo's turn, corruption at the hands of Snoke, and ultimate fall. That the story began well after that severely limited its potential from the get-go. According to the Art of The Force Awakens, Rick Carter set out to ask his group "How strong is the Force?" That was the guiding question in the concept phase of that film. Which for me, begs the question - Why is a production designer/art director laying down the story path for this part of the saga? That's a writer's/director's job.

There is non-Lucas content like Rebels, Jedi Fallen Order, The Mandalorian and some (but not all) Marvel comics content that prove in my mind, others can incorporate that Lucas soul into the stories. I give all credit to Dave Filoni for that. If I sat in Bob Iger's chair for a day, I would redefine Kathy Kennedy's job title and restructure Lucasfilm so that Dave Filoni is the creative content director for the Star Wars brand. He sets the guardrails by which all other writers/directors must follow, across all mediums (comics, novels, features, TV, video games). If a Hollywood director doesn't like that, too fucking bad. He'll find someone else.

Star Wars is far from dead. The discourse surrounding TLJ and TROS show that people still care, deeply. A death knell for the franchise isn't hate or anger, it's indifference. I lived through the "dark years" of 1984-91, when Star Wars was fairly irrelevant. I'm thankful we aren't there yet, and I hope we never will be.


Post Posted: January 8th 2020 1:42 pm
 
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I would rather have the dark years again than to sit through another trilogy of Disney horseshit.


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Good list DP. I have the prequels a bit higher but honestly I was 13 when TPM came out so while I grew up with the OT the PT was probably more prevalent for me.


Post Posted: January 9th 2020 11:47 pm
 

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Join: October 13th 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Outer Rim
01. ESB
02. ANH
03. ROTS
04. TFA
05. ROTJ
06. AOTC
07. TPM
08. TROS
09. SOLO
10. R1
11. TLJ


Only thing that hurts the prequels for me is Ep. II & III we're shot digital and not on film. They look like video and are a visual disconnect from the rest. I can easily make the visual connect of I to IV thru XI.

I think ep. VII and IX actually have the best dialogue hands down.

TLJ and R1 are completely tone deaf to the established tone and style of these films and this hurt Solo.

I want the JJ Cut.


Post Posted: January 10th 2020 8:16 pm
 
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Join: October 12th 2004 9:34 pm
Posts: 2577
Location: Toronto, Canada
The PT is more tonally inconsistent with the OT than any of the other films.

There are definitely periodic tonal shifts in TLJ (off-beat comedy, political grandstanding, etc) and I do agree that the style of filmmaking is different in the ST than the OT or PT (use of flashbacks, over-reliance on mystery-based storytelling, etc).


Post Posted: January 14th 2020 5:11 pm
 
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Join: December 24th 2015 5:26 am
Posts: 239
01. A New Hope
02. The Empire Strikes Back
03. Revenge of the Sith
04. Attack of the Clones
05. Return of the Jedi
06. The Phantom Menace
07. The Last Jedi
08. The Rise of Skywalker
09. The Force Awakens

Oddly enough, whilst writing this, I’ve only just released that all the titles of the ST start with ‘The’. Even that annoys me.


Post Posted: January 14th 2020 8:02 pm
 
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Join: April 26th 2005 11:20 am
Posts: 1224
Bugs me too.


Post Posted: January 15th 2020 2:44 pm
 
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Join: October 10th 2014 11:38 pm
Posts: 375
About to see TROS in few minutes. Will report back to share my thoughts and finally compile my ranking of the films.


Post Posted: January 15th 2020 6:04 pm
 
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Join: April 26th 2005 11:20 am
Posts: 1224
This is our most desperate hour. Help us, Freezus. Your finalized ranking of the films is our only hope.


Post Posted: January 15th 2020 6:46 pm
 
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Join: April 20th 2004 11:57 pm
Posts: 523
Location: Southern California
1. Revenge of the Sith (if the Lucas Star Wars films are my favorite films of all time... you're looking at my single most cherished movie ever right here)
2. A New Hope
3. The Phantom Menace (still the purest version of Star Wars ever committed to film)
4. Empire
5. Attack of the Clones
6. Return of the Jedi

...Yep, whole saga is accounted for there in that list.

I'd say The Last Jedi is the best of the Disney movies but I don't have any desire to revisit it outside of the throne room scene with Rey, Kylo and the Praetorian guards. The cross cutting between the different story threads during that scene is really effective and very good filmmaking, I just can't be bothered to care about any of the characters in the Disney movies.

I do an annual rewatch of the films and each time I do, I find myself more and more impressed by the prequels. There's so much I love about those movies.


Post Posted: January 15th 2020 7:09 pm
 
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Join: October 10th 2014 11:38 pm
Posts: 375
1. ROTS
2. TESB
3. ANH
4. ROTJ
5. TPM
6. TFA
7. TROS
8. AOTC
9. TLJ

That’s my final ranking of the whole saga.

My review will come next.


Post Posted: January 15th 2020 10:41 pm
 
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Join: October 10th 2014 11:38 pm
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